Not every Redskin is a HOFer

[Henry]

The HOF is about an individual. Taking successful teams and claiming there must be a HOFer from the roster is silly.

Suggesting the possibility that there might be a HOFer or two on a multiple SB-winning team is not.

That 1987 team was probably one of the 5-10 weakest SB winners. The '91 team was dominant. But, aside from Monk and Green (and arguably Clark), they didn't have any single player that was consistently dominant. They were a true team. I'd argue they were one of the five best SB winners. But, that says nothing about any individual on the team.

From 1986 to 1991 the Redskins were top 6 in offense every year. The SB winning teams were not flukey. The 87 and 91 teams both sported top 5 offenses in yardage and scoring. I'd suggest there WAS consistant a reason for this dominance which you have oddly overlooked: The offensive line. Add to that the skill position players you've already mentioned and you've got 3-5 players that have been getting the shaft for years.

This is exactly what makes Gibbs so great, IMO. He won without the greats. Even when he had one of the greats (Monk), Gibbs won despite being without his services for many postseason games.

I agree that Gibbs is a great coach. That's why he IS in the Hall of Fame. But we shouldn't be punishing great players for having great coaches. That hasn't stopped teams like the Packers or 49ers from filling up Canton.

Plus, Green will be a first-balloter unless the year is insanely stacked with talen, which I don't think it will be. So, there will be at least one player from those SB winners. And, I do believe Monk will eventually be in.

Really? We all thought Monk would be a first-balloter too. Now we're reduced to hoping he'll be a 7th balloter. And it's starting with Green already too. I've heard prominent columnists such as Paul Attner claim Green was merely an above-average player who played for a long time. Sound familiar?

Maybe you shouldn't suggest Green will be a first balloter. You don't want to be accused of being a homer.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

:doh: What about Jacoby, and Grimm?

Or Wilbur Marshall? That dude was crazy dominant from 1984 or 1985 (with the Bears) through 1992 at least.

[s0crates]

My List of HOF worthy Gibbs' Redskins not in the HOF yet

1. Art Monk (He broke all the team records of two former Redskin HOFer WR Mitchell & Taylor)

2. Green (not eligible yet)

3.(tie) Grimm & Jacoby... The leaders of probably the greatest OL in recent NFL history, Helped lead the way to several impressive offensives stats, and 4 superbowl apperances. Comparable to previous great OL in other decades Packers of the 60's, and Steelers of the 70's both of those teams have players from the OL in the HOF

Just outside HOF worthy

1. Joey T.

2. Gary Clark

3. Mark Mosely

4. Dexter Manley

5. Jeff Bostic

6. Dave Butz

7. Wilbur Marshall

I like this list a lot Bubba, but I think you might be able to make a case for stronger case for Mark Moseley as HOF worthy since he was the last of the straight on kickers (and therefore an icon of sorts), held scoring records, won Championships, and won an MVP award (the only kicker to do so).

[dgreen]

My List of HOF worthy Gibbs' Redskins not in the HOF yet

1. Art Monk (He broke all the team records of two former Redskin HOFer WR Mitchell & Taylor)

2. Green (not eligible yet)

3.(tie) Grimm & Jacoby... The leaders of probably the greatest OL in recent NFL history, Helped lead the way to several impressive offensives stats, and 4 superbowl apperances. Comparable to previous great OL in other decades Packers of the 60's, and Steelers of the 70's both of those teams have players from the OL in the HOF

Just outside HOF worthy

1. Joey T.

2. Gary Clark

3. Mark Mosely

4. Dexter Manley

5. Jeff Bostic

6. Dave Butz

7. Wilbur Marshall

I agree on Monk and Green.

In the 80s, I wasn't really watching individual OL play, so I can't comment too much on Jacoby and Grimm. However, each made the All 80s Team, so they go that going for them, which is nice.

I might give Manley and Clark a second thought, but that's about it. That doesn't mean I think the others sucked, though.

[bubba9497]

I like this list a lot Bubba, but I think you might be able to make a case for Mark Moseley as HOF worthy since he was the last of the straight on kickers (and therefore an icon of sorts), held scoring records, won Championships, and won an MVP award (the only kicker to do so).

just his overall accuracy, and lack of distance range keeps him on the fringe

[dgreen]

From 1986 to 1991 the Redskins were top 6 in offense every year. The SB winning teams were not flukey. The 87 and 91 teams both sported top 5 offenses in yardage and scoring. I'd suggest there WAS consistant a reason for this dominance which you have oddly overlooked: The offensive line. Add to that the skill position players you've already mentioned and you've got 3-5 players that have been getting the shaft for years.

I haven't overlooked the OL. In my opinion, OL and maybe even DL are more important than even QB. As a unit, they were the main reason for success.

Five really good linemen > One great lineman and 4 average linemen.

However, the one great lineman will be the only one to make the HOF.

I agree that Gibbs is a great coach. That's why he IS in the Hall of Fame. But we shouldn't be punishing great players for having great coaches. That hasn't stopped teams like the Packers or 49ers from filling up Canton.

I don't necessarily support inducting someone simply because someone may have made it in without merit. Do all those Packers deserve it? I don't know, but that doesn't change whether Jacoby deserves it or not.

I agree we shouldn't punish for having a great coach just like we shouldn't punish a WR for having a great QB. Frankly, evaluating individuals in the ultimate team sport can be difficult.

Really? We all thought Monk would be a first-balloter too. Now we're reduced to hoping he'll be a 7th balloter. And it's starting with Green already too. I've heard prominent columnists such as Paul Attner claim Green was merely an above-average player who played for a long time. Sound familiar?

Maybe you shouldn't suggest Green will be a first balloter. You don't want to be accused of being a homer.

You're making me sad. Seriously, some are saying Green isn't a HOFer? I wouldn't be completely shocked if he didn't make it on the first ballot (take a look at first-balloters; that's one sick list), but to not make it at all would be horrible.

But, we shouldn't take Monk and Green being slighted as an excuse to pimp another player. (I'm not saying you are doing that.)

BTW, this is some really good discussion. :thumbsup:

[dgreen]

I'm guessing you aren't much for messgae boards in general, are you? There's always going to be, well to be blunt, crazy people. Threads like this one aren't going to stop them, nor do they represent the majority.

Funny thing though.. If you pay attention, all the silly asinine threads and posts all seem to get done by the same handful of posters. Some of them do it just to rile up the rest of the posters... just like they got to you. Some of them do it, because they really are staring at the world in Burgandy and gold colored glasses, and I'm sorry to say... you aren't going to be able to get them off... EVER! Some are just bored with the off-season and letting their imaginations run wild.. they calm down once they get to see a few plays in pre-season games!

It's best just to ignore them.. skip the thread, or just read with a bit of amusement on your face.

Just realize it is a FAR cry from the majority of ES posters that get a little off the handle. So relax.. the world isn't going to end and we'll still have great threads going here on ES!

Thanks. Very good input.

[Donita35]

I'm guessing you aren't much for messgae boards in general, are you? There's always going to be, well to be blunt, crazy people. Threads like this one aren't going to stop them, nor do they represent the majority.

Funny thing though.. If you pay attention, all the silly asinine threads and posts all seem to get done by the same handful of posters. Some of them do it just to rile up the rest of the posters... just like they got to you. Some of them do it, because they really are staring at the world in Burgandy and gold colored glasses, and I'm sorry to say... you aren't going to be able to get them off... EVER! Some are just bored with the off-season and letting their imaginations run wild.. they calm down once they get to see a few plays in pre-season games!

It's best just to ignore them.. skip the thread, or just read with a bit of amusement on your face.

Just realize it is a FAR cry from the majority of ES posters that get a little off the handle. So relax.. the world isn't going to end and we'll still have great threads going here on ES!

:applause: :applause: Now that is a quality post. :applause: :applause: I agree 100%.

Relax DGreen. I for one respect where you are coming from. To co-exist, we do not all have to agree.

[dgreen]

Relax DGreen. I for one respect where you are coming from. To co-exist, we do not all have to agree.

Sorry if I gave the impression that I'm ticked off about this or that it really bothers me. It's no skin off my nose if someone thinks someone was better than I thought he was. I enjoy disagreements. Debating is fun.

[iceman330]

I'm a Redskins fan. I love Redskins fans. I love this message board. However, I'm continually amazed at many poster's inability to see players for what they were. Everyone who ever wore a Skins uniform does not need to be propped up above Joe Montana, Jim Brown, and Jerry Rice.

This nonsense is usually seen in questions about which Redskins should be in the HOF. I've seen questions about Doug Williams, Stephen Davis, Ernest Byner, Gerald Riggs, and even Chris Cooley. Seriously, 99% of the players mentioned for the HOF are totally mind-boggling.

Please stop. It's embarrassing. I encourage everyone to take a look at the current HOFers and learn about what they did and who they were.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. Like I said, I love this board. However, some of the stuff I read here is amazing. I believe the more knowledgeable our fans become about the game (and not just the Skins), the better off we'll all be.

Leave the crappy analysis and inflated egos to the Cowgirls fans. That is all. Carry on.

I agree with most of what you have to say. But regarding Doug Williams, you gotta slow your roll. Doug was the only real weapon that Tampa had yet lead them to the playoffs. For sure, Doug in his prime was as good as any QB but was surrounded by bumbs.

[dgreen]

I agree with most of what you have to say. But regarding Doug Williams, you gotta slow your roll. Doug was the only real weapon that Tampa had yet lead them to the playoffs. For sure, Doug in his prime was as good as any QB but was surrounded by bumbs.

I only remember seeing Doug here in DC. And, I'm impressed with his numbers and the team's accomplishments in TB. If you are simply arguing that he is better than I give him credit for, you might be right. But, while I love the guy, he's a far cry from HOF material in my book.

[Donita35]

I only remember seeing Doug here in DC. And, I'm impressed with his numbers and the team's accomplishments in TB. If you are simply arguing that he is better than I give him credit for, you might be right. But, while I love the guy, he's a far cry from HOF material in my book.

You mean that being the first and only black quarterback to date to win the Superbowl doesn't get you in the HOF??? Just curious.

[dgreen]

You mean that being the first and only black quarterback to date to win the Superbowl doesn't get you in the HOF??? Just curious.

Seriously? No.

I guess there's about a 5% chance the veteran committee will nominate Doug for the HOF in about 50 years, but that's about the only shot he has.

[Henry]

You mean that being the first and only black quarterback to date to win the Superbowl doesn't get you in the HOF??? Just curious.

Williams never went to the pro-bowl. To even be considered you have to gone to at least one.

[Donita35]

Okay Thanks. I was just wondering.

[bulldog]

Chris Hanburger and Art Monk belong in the Hall of Fame. Monk retired having set at one time or another a number of records during his career including most receptions, most receptions in a season, most consecutive games with a reception, etc.

Hanburger made 9 pro bowls. He was NFL Defensive Player of the Year in 1972. Compare that to Harry Carson or Dave Wilcox and tell me that these players belong and #55 doesn't

Yes, there are fans here that believe every Redskin is the best player at his position in the NFL and every retired Skin belongs in the Hall. But those fans are hardly the mainstream.

Your mistake in this post is to condemn the group by noting the exception(s).

Also it would have made for a better thread if you had identified a Redskin you believed DESERVED to make it to contrast with the examples of guys like Davis, etc. that you and most of us feel should NOT be considered.

[Matt [Redskins Fan]]

I take pride that there's not too many of our Skins in the Hall of Biased Media Idiots.

[Warhead36]

Ade Jimoh...future HOF-er

[FootballGuy2677]

Clinton Portis/Sean Taylor are future Hall Of Famers!

Ade Jimoh...future HOF-er

Ade Jimoh is my boy. Don't make fun of him.

[ouvan59]

You mean that being the first and only black quarterback to date to win the Superbowl doesn't get you in the HOF??? Just curious.

I hope you are kidding about that making him HOF worthy. It's a great story and a landmark event but it doesn't make him any better or any worse of a player. In the end you judge him by his accomplishments as a football player and his body of work just doesn't even come close to warranting HOF consideration.

Doug Williams played only 4 full seasons in the NFL as a starting QB. He is not in the top 50 of any major statistical category.

[talk show host]

I'm a Redskins fan. I love Redskins fans. I love this message board. However, I'm continually amazed at many poster's inability to see players for what they were. Everyone who ever wore a Skins uniform does not need to be propped up above Joe Montana, Jim Brown, and Jerry Rice.

This nonsense is usually seen in questions about which Redskins should be in the HOF. I've seen questions about Doug Williams, Stephen Davis, Ernest Byner, Gerald Riggs, and even Chris Cooley. Seriously, 99% of the players mentioned for the HOF are totally mind-boggling.

Please stop. It's embarrassing. I encourage everyone to take a look at the current HOFers and learn about what they did and who they were.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. Like I said, I love this board. However, some of the stuff I read here is amazing. I believe the more knowledgeable our fans become about the game (and not just the Skins), the better off we'll all be.

Leave the crappy analysis and inflated egos to the Cowgirls fans. That is all. Carry on.

art monk isnt on your list.

[MustangSteve]

One could make a case for Joe Jacoby as well.

I would make a case for Jacoby as well, there wasnt another linemen that ever played that I would have traded him for.

[MustangSteve]

Oh and dont forget Heath Shuler for the HOF, he did beat dallas in Texas 1 time :laugh:

[usmcskinfan4life05]

Great you had to bring up Heath Shuler :laugh:

[whatmeworry]

This is really absurd. Maybe going through the thousands of posts you might find a Doug Williams or something but come on man! The only consistent names mentioned are Monk, then occassionally Grimm, Bostic, Jacoby (Hogs). All of these are legitimate. While I'm at it let me add a name that hardly ever gets mentioned - Dave Butz, perhaps the best run stuffer of his generation and better than half of the lineman (that includes you Howie Long) that are in HOF now.