Hillary Invokes Religion in Opposing Anti-Illegal Immigration Bill

[Larry]

Trespassing is a private property concept. Do you own the land along the Rio Grande? I don't.

I own The United States. (Along with millions of co-owners.)

The property is managed by a Board of Directors which I've helped elect. They've chosen not to invite other people onto our property.

(It's that "law" thing.)

That 33 percent stat is completely made up.

I believe you. Nonetheless, my point was that some illegals do steal. And rob. And deal drugs.

I'm even willing to say that they aren't "typical" illegals. But evemn you won't say that there aren't any.

And what taxpayer funded health care are you talking about? We don't even have that in this country.

Really? So when an illegal goes to an emergengy room, and gives a fake name at the desk, and receives free medical care, who does pay for it?

Some people have noticed a statistical correlation between poverty and lawlessness.

Which is the point I was making originally. The fact that punishing crime tends to disproportionatly affect poor people (because criminals tend to be poor) does not mean that punishing crime is punishing the poor.

Not really. Employers don't have to hire them. They only do so because they can make a higher profit that way. A law penalizing the hiring will change thier behavior. The workers, on the other hand, need to find work to survive. They are less likely to be deterred by a law. In theory, what will deter them is when the word gets out that you can't get a job here anymore.

I don't believe that there are people who's only choices are entering the US illegally or starvation. It sounds good, but the folks comming over here are after better jobs, not the world's only jobs.

Now, if you want to claim that penalizing employers will be more effective, then you've got my vote. For one thing, the employers have more to lose. The worst thing you can do to the illegal is to house him in a taxpayer-funded prison for some time, and that's a risk they're willing to take.

I'm really in favor of punishing employers. (I just suspect that proving them guilty might be tough.)

[Seabee1973]

Democrats are not above invoking religion, if it's helpful to their cause at the moment. They parade through Churches (especially African American Churches) every election, then spend their terms banning every possible public expression of faith -- nice.

Kerry did that they had pictures on CNN, Now if Bush had done that the ACLU would have been all over that.

[BURGUNDYBLEEDER]

Are any immigrants reading the Immigration and Nationality Act before they try to sneak across the border? I seriously doubt it - they are looking at an opportunity for a paycheck and a better life. Changing these rules will do nothing to change the socioeconomic situation that leads millions of these immigrants to make this choice.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. The socioeconomic situation in many of these illegal immigrants countries of origin (i.e. Mexico, El Salvador) is a LARGE contributing factor to us Americans having a debate about the resulting problems (mass illegal immigration and its ramifications). Now, this is NOT America's fault. Thanks.

[ChocolateCitySkin]

I have no problem with allowing 30% more Mexicans across the border legally.

I have no problem with allowing 100% here fill out forms to become legal.

I have a problem will allowing the ILLEGAL immigration...

FIX it, don't pat it on the head and then keep allowing it to be illegal...

Politicians willing to pander to 12 million illegals to get votes: SHOCKING!

You're probably the first rational person I've read here on this subject. A criminal offense is wrong-- It would deny illegals from ever attaining citizenship.

After Nibbs referred to losing roofing jobs (the lowest of low on the skilled laborer totem pole) to the immigrants I had to stay away from these threads.

[Peregrine]

Hillary Clinton wouldnt know "Religion", or decency for that matter if it flew up and hit her in the face. Would be fun to watch though :-)

[Destino]

Last time I checked, trespassing is illegal regardless of the motives.

If someone breaks into your house, it doesn't matter if his kid needs new shoes.

Motives do matter in law enforcement. A man speeding down the highway at 100mph is breaking the law – but do you see him as being a terrible person if he’s doing it to get the hospital because he’s dying? Motives matter – thus breaking in to steal and breaking in to work because you come from nothing are entirely different things.

So if someone commits a crime, and then does something nice (desirable? equitable?), (and is continuing to commit that crime), then the crime didn't happen?

See above.

So it's not their fault they broke the law, because they were just so tempted by the loot they saw that they couldn't resist breaking it? (It's our fault that we didn't lock the door better?)

It’s not about not locking the door better – It’s about not setting up a situation with KNOWN RESULTS and then playing the lawbreaker card when people do exactly what you knew damn well they’d do when you started.

(Let's not point out, BTW, that the law Hillary's objecting to, here, is an attempt to "lock the door better".)

No it isn’t – it’s telling people to check visas before handing out sandwiches to the poor. It’s doing nothing to remove the incentive to come here in the first place or securing the border.

(I was going to resist the temptation to draw an analogy to the accused rapist using the "if she didn't want sex, she shouldn't dress that way" defense. But, since your point is that reasonable people simply can't be expected to resist temptation . . . )

I think avoiding starvation is a little more complicated then “resist temptation”. But that’s just me – maybe you’re different and view survival as merely something you want.

2) Isn't claiming that hiring them is a crime, but them being here shouldn't be, a little like claiming that hiring a prostitute should be illegal, but being one shouldn't?

Not at all – it’s all about motivation. If coming here no longer offers opportunity because there simply are not jobs for you here – people won’t be as likely to come here and if they do the law will target the real criminals – those profiting from poverty.

[Predicto]

Kerry did that they had pictures on CNN, Now if Bush had done that the ACLU would have been all over that.

That doesn't even make any sense.

[Predicto]

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. The socioeconomic situation in many of these illegal immigrants countries of origin (i.e. Mexico, El Salvador) is a LARGE contributing factor to us Americans having a debate about the resulting problems (mass illegal immigration and its ramifications). Now, this is NOT America's fault. Thanks.

Whether it is America's fault is not the question. The question is what do we do about it, both effectively and humanely?

[BURGUNDYBLEEDER]

Whether it is America's fault is not the question. The question is what do we do about it, both effectively and humanely?

I was replying to DiJi post of dealing with the socioeconomic situation (i.e. country of origin poor = come to US for better jobs). In this context it is relevant.

[Predicto]

I was replying to DiJi post of dealing with the socioeconomic situation (i.e. country of origin poor = come to US for better jobs). In this context it is relevant.

Fair enough.

[Teller]

:laugh: Criminalizing Jesus? The libs already beat us to that!