New Poll Finds 86 Percent Of Americans Don't Want To Have A Country Anymore

[heyholetsgogrant]

New Poll Finds 86 Percent Of Americans Don't Want To Have A Country Anymore

March 13, 2006 | Issue 42•11

WASHINGTON, DC—A Gallup/Harris Interactive poll released Monday indicates that nearly nine out of 10 Americans are "tired of having a country."

Enlarge ImageAmericans

Chicago commuters, 87 percent of whom just don't care anymore.

Among the 86 percent of poll respondents who were in favor of discontinuing the nation, the most frequently cited reasons were a lack of significant results from the current democratic process (36 percent), dissatisfaction with customer service (28 percent), and exhaustion (22 percent).

"I don't want to get bogged down in the country anymore," Wilmington, DE accountant Karie Ashworth said. "I'm not up in arms or anything, I'm just saying it'd be a lot easier for everyone if we just gave it up."

Of those who were against maintaining an American nation, 77 percent said they believe that having a country is "counter to the best interests of Americans." Twelve percent said "the time and effort citizens spend on the country could be better spent elsewhere," and 8 percent said they just didn't care.

Roughly 3 percent said we ceased to have a country years ago, and explained that they had been stockpiling weapons to protect their independent compounds.

According to study organizer David Griffith, poll respondents were surprisingly uniform in their opinion that the nation is too much of a hassle.

"I already belong to a health club, a church, and the Kiwanis Club," Tammy Golden of Los Angeles wrote. "I'm a member of the Von's Grocery Super Savers, which gets me a discount on certain groceries. These are all well-managed organizations with real benefits. None of them send me a confusing bill once a year and make me work it out myself, then throw me in jail if I get it wrong."

Olympia, WA student Helen Berg expressed frustration with the country's voting process.

"I was gonna vote, but it rained," Berg wrote. "It wasn't for the president anyway, so what difference does it make? The president is the only one that matters, and you don't even get to vote for him."

Most citizens said they did not wish to abandon such American traditions as parades, fireworks, and national holidays.

"I'm for saluting flags and pledging allegiance to them, but nothing beyond that," Tampa, FL mechanic and former Marine Doug Pauls said. "I like singing the anthem before the game, but I can't keep up with the news every day. I have three kids."

Pauls added: "I love America, but what's that got to do with having a country?"

Some critics, including the leadership of both parties, have attacked the methodology of the poll, saying that questions like "Do you want a country anymore?" are poorly worded. Casey Mark, a fellow at the Brookings Institute, characterized the question as leading.

Said Mark: "What you must consider is that respondents often don't have the time or energy to devote to answering five questions about their country, which they consider themselves to be remotely involved with, at best."

Griffith pointed to Cheyenne, WY banker Jeff Wheldon's response.

"I think we've come far enough as a nation that we don't need to have one anymore," Wheldon wrote. "It's not like we're Somalia, where the warlords run everything, or Russia, where it's all organized crime. We've had over 200 years of being Americans. I don't think we still need the United States of America to show us how to do it."

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/46227

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:laugh:

[Prosperity]

Too good to be true

[zoony]

Too good to be true

What do you mean by that? Do tell.

[28rdsknsfn28]

So what...... each state becomes a country, by geography, NO WAIT Red Country and Blue Country.

[jrockster21]

What do you mean by that? Do tell.

I think he means its the Onion, meaning its a fake article. :whoknows:

[tapstaks2000]

So what...... each state becomes a country, by geography, NO WAIT Red Country and Blue Country.

Then the red country would be poor because the blue country holds most of the wealth .

[rincewind]

Then the red country would be poor because the blue country holds most of the wealth .

And here we go again.....

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146897&highlight=letter+blue

[Darth Tater]

Agreed Liberty, if by country you are thinking of a political unit.

[Guest Gichin13]

gotta love the onion

[Mass_SkinsFan]

"I'm for saluting flags and pledging allegiance to them, but nothing beyond that," Tampa, FL mechanic and former Marine Doug Pauls said. "I like singing the anthem before the game, but I can't keep up with the news every day. I have three kids."

Yes, I know it's from The Onion and a satyrical piece, but there's some serious truth to the paragraph above. Truth that disgusts me nearly to the point of nauseau. Truth that truly makes me believe more and more that Citizenship should be a PRIVLEDGE, not a RIGHT here in the United States.

[skinfan133]

Yes, I know it's from The Onion and a satyrical piece, but there's some serious truth to the paragraph above. Truth that disgusts me nearly to the point of nauseau. Truth that truly makes me believe more and more that Citizenship should be a PRIVLEDGE, not a RIGHT here in the United States.

i also realize this is satire but, citizenship is a right, and it can be taken away, but it should never have to be earned if you are born here. that said it can and should be stripped from some individuals. if people like that fictional guy want to be ignorant fools thats their perogative and right.

[Ancalagon the Black]

Reminds me of Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash, in which private franchises controlled the vast majority of land, and the United States was restricted to weird federal compounds where bureaucrats sat there doing work for a purpose no one knew about.

[CoachingWinsChampionships]

Yes, I know it's from The Onion and a satyrical piece, but there's some serious truth to the paragraph above. Truth that disgusts me nearly to the point of nauseau. Truth that truly makes me believe more and more that Citizenship should be a PRIVLEDGE, not a RIGHT here in the United States.

Not entirely sure how serious you are here- maybe you're just venting frustration- but hypothetically, exactly whom would get to decide which of us has earned the privilege of citizenship?

[rincewind]

Not entirely sure how serious you are here- maybe you're just venting frustration- but hypothetically, exactly whom would get to decide which of us has earned the privilege of citizenship?

Mass_Skinsfan would of course.

Really though - dude is for executing anybody that voted for Kerry, so careful what political ground you walk on with this one.

p.s. Mass - glad to see you lost the avatar (though you said you liked it).

[Teller]

Yes, but does Von's Grocery Super Savers have a seat on the UN Security Council? :laugh:

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Not entirely sure how serious you are here- maybe you're just venting frustration- but hypothetically, exactly whom would get to decide which of us has earned the privilege of citizenship?

VERY Serious!! Unfortunately we've gotten to a point in this country where people take their citizenship for granted. They expect to be treated like Kings and Queens, defered to and generally pandered to because they had the good fortune to be born inside a set of lines on a map. They expect this treatment even after they've burned the symbol of this nation, run from military service and/or promoted the policies and viewpoints of other countries over the interests of the United States. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

Personally, I would be for a system that required certain service to the country and/or at least a statement of allegiance upon reaching adulthood for citizenship. From that point on, activities considered subversive to the country and/or in direct opposition to the country would be grounds to have the citizenship revoked. I'm also COMPLETELY against the concept of dual-citizenship in ANY form.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

Mass_Skinsfan would of course.

Nope. I don't have the sort of time or energy to deal with that level of bureaucratic garbage.

p.s. Mass - glad to see you lost the avatar (though you said you liked it).

I didn't like it. I had accepted it. I was kinda bummed when I noticed it was gone this afternoon.

[CoachingWinsChampionships]

VERY Serious!! Unfortunately we've gotten to a point in this country where people take their citizenship for granted. They expect to be treated like Kings and Queens, defered to and generally pandered to because they had the good fortune to be born inside a set of lines on a map. They expect this treatment even after they've burned the symbol of this nation, run from military service and/or promoted the policies and viewpoints of other countries over the interests of the United States. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

Personally, I would be for a system that required certain service to the country and/or at least a statement of allegiance upon reaching adulthood for citizenship. From that point on, activities considered subversive to the country and/or in direct opposition to the country would be grounds to have the citizenship revoked. I'm also COMPLETELY against the concept of dual-citizenship in ANY form.

From what rincewind says, I'm opening up pandora's box by getting into politics here, but that response seemed pretty rational and calm... so here goes ! For the record, I'm not just wasting your time to play devil's advocate as alot of people on this board do. I am only asking questions so that I may better understand your point of view (and possibly accept some of it).

First off, what are you doing in Massachusettes? Second, I still see the same basic problem here; who decides which acts constitute "activities considered subversive to the country and/or in direct opposition to the country" and how could you possibly see a system such as you described ever not eventually being abused by those in charge? Also,

As to the first part of your response, by saying people take their citizenship for granted, are you referring to them not participating enough, or performing unpatriotic acts? WHY do you think many Americans take their citizenship for granted? What has caused this?(not looking for an essay here; I know this could go on forever, but please try and concisely put it if you can). The excerpt you highlighted- why do you think that Americans should exert such a great effort to take part in their nation, when they feel their voice and actions really have no effect? Or do you feel their voice is heard?

What do you think should be done with all those non-citizens who haven't reached adulthood, or have, by their own volition, not fulfilled the requirements to gain citizenship?

Last, what do you think of Locke's philosophy that the people should overthrow an oppressive government and how do you see this being possible in such a patriotically(is that a word?) based system, which could easily lead to a complete suppression of all acts of sedition? Many would say that people with your point of view aren't just trying to prevent flag burning, but actually all dissent and would reference the 1st amendment. I personally feel that one of the more patriotic things is to take an active role, not just blindly follow leaders, and to express your views on what is best for your country. I do think that much that we do and that our leaders do does not represent very well the ideals of our nation, and this needs to be addressed.

For those of you that are still reading, thanks. I know it was a bit lengthy, but I would appreciate your opinions and insights Mass_SkinsFan( or anyone else)

[Darth Tater]

i also realize this is satire but, citizenship is a right, and it can be taken away, but it should never have to be earned if you are born here. that said it can and should be stripped from some individuals. if people like that fictional guy want to be ignorant fools thats their perogative and right.

No, if it can be taken away, its not a right.

[Darth Tater]

Personally, I would be for a system that required certain service to the country and/or at least a statement of allegiance upon reaching adulthood for citizenship. From that point on, activities considered subversive to the country and/or in direct opposition to the country would be grounds to have the citizenship revoked. I'm also COMPLETELY against the concept of dual-citizenship in ANY form.

Are you a leftist or are you joking?

[TradeTheBeal!]

VERY Serious!! Unfortunately we've gotten to a point in this country where people take their citizenship for granted. They expect to be treated like Kings and Queens, defered to and generally pandered to because they had the good fortune to be born inside a set of lines on a map. They expect this treatment even after they've burned the symbol of this nation, run from military service and/or promoted the policies and viewpoints of other countries over the interests of the United States. They want to have their cake and eat it too.

Personally, I would be for a system that required certain service to the country and/or at least a statement of allegiance upon reaching adulthood for citizenship. From that point on, activities considered subversive to the country and/or in direct opposition to the country would be grounds to have the citizenship revoked. I'm also COMPLETELY against the concept of dual-citizenship in ANY form.

This country already exists somewhere I'm sure. Do you speak any foreign languages?

[Mass_SkinsFan]

From what rincewind says, I'm opening up pandora's box by getting into politics here, but that response seemed pretty rational and calm... so here goes ! For the record, I'm not just wasting your time to play devil's advocate as alot of people on this board do. I am only asking questions so that I may better understand your point of view (and possibly accept some of it).

Let me say that if the age listed under your name to the left of your post is correct, I am very impressed. You seem very intelligent, polite and apparantly have a fair dose of the common sense many of your peers are generally severely lacking in. I'll try to answer your questions as concisely and efficiently as possible.

First off, what are you doing in Massachusettes?

I'm a New Englander, born and bred. While I hate the winters and love some of the other areas of the country I've had the opportunity to visit, there's just something about this part of the country that holds me here. The people (politics non-withstanding, the scenery, the history, etc...). I also have a very good job and most of my family still lives in this area of the country.

Second, I still see the same basic problem here; who decides which acts constitute "activities considered subversive to the country and/or in direct opposition to the country" and how could you possibly see a system such as you described ever not eventually being abused by those in charge?

Obviously any system of the sort I described has the potential to be abused. However, I'm not sure it could be abused any more than our current system is being abused in the opposite direction. The standards for activities leading to revocation of citizenship would obviously have to be approved by the US House of Representitives, Congress and signed by the POTUS. Then they would also be approved by the individual states, similar to the Constitutional amendment process. That process in and of itself would be a major deterent to abuse, in my mind.

As to the first part of your response, by saying people take their citizenship for granted, are you referring to them not participating enough, or performing unpatriotic acts? WHY do you think many Americans take their citizenship for granted? What has caused this?(not looking for an essay here; I know this could go on forever, but please try and concisely put it if you can).

I'm referring to both lack of participation AND unpatriotic acts. I'm talking about everything from voters who walk into a voting booth without having any idea who's even on the ballot, never mind what they stand for and those people who are in their 40's yet have never voted in their lives. I'm talking about the (expletive deleted) who spit in my father's face in San Francisco airport when he returned from Vietnam. I'm talking about the draft dodgers who are still living in Canada because they were too cowardly or traitorous to carry out their duty as American citizens. I'm talking about the flag burners and America-haters in the "protest movement". Etc, Etc, Etc..... I hope you get the idea.

I think the root cause of the lack of participation problem is the fact that we take our rights and freedoms for granted. They've always been there for the people in your and my generation. We've never seen a serious threat to those ideals in our lifetime. In our parent's generation I believe its a backlash against the government that many perceive as having been so problematic and despicable in the 1960's & 70's. In our grandparents generation, I believe it's a reaction to the idea that the country they grew up in and fought for no longer exists.

In my mind the unpatriotic acts problem is a combination of a lack of discipline, manners, values and morals that has affected the last several generations of Americans AND the idea that Free Speech protects a person's right to say anything, anywhere, regardless of the potential personal, professional and political ramifications,.

The excerpt you highlighted- why do you think that Americans should exert such a great effort to take part in their nation, when they feel their voice and actions really have no effect? Or do you feel their voice is heard?

Freedom isn't free. You've probably heard that phrase before. Maybe from a veteran in your family, or hopefully from a teacher in a social studies class you've taken. The Rights and Freedoms we have in this country are in existance and continue to remain in existance because the citizens of this country (and the English colonies before) were willing to be involved. We only really understand and cherish those freedoms and rights when we have to think about them. When we have to do something about them. I believe that the voice of the people IS heard in this country. Obviously the voice of the majority is heard louder than the voices of the minorities, but that's the way a Republic works. If individuals give up even trying to be heard, then they certainly never will be.

What do you think should be done with all those non-citizens who haven't reached adulthood, or have, by their own volition, not fulfilled the requirements to gain citizenship?

I believe there should be two potentials in such a case. The first is removal/denial of citizenship without deportation. The other would be denial or citizenship WITH deportation. The latter would be reserved for those people whose actions & activities have shown themselves to be violent and/or potentially physically dangerous to the country.

Last, what do you think of Locke's philosophy that the people should overthrow an oppressive government and how do you see this being possible in such a patriotically(is that a word?) based system, which could easily lead to a complete suppression of all acts of sedition? Many would say that people with your point of view aren't just trying to prevent flag burning, but actually all dissent and would reference the 1st amendment. I personally feel that one of the more patriotic things is to take an active role, not just blindly follow leaders, and to express your views on what is best for your country. I do think that much that we do and that our leaders do does not represent very well the ideals of our nation, and this needs to be addressed.

I am a very large proponent of armed revolution. I always have been. If you ever get a chance to come to this area of the country, let me know and I'll take you to Minuteman National Park in Lexington & Concord, MA. It's a truly inspirational place to walk with the history and modern world right on top of each other. Interestingly enough the planning for that Revolution took place right under the noses of an English goverment and military that was involved in everything those colonists did on a daily basis. It wouldn't be that hard to forment an armed revolution without the government catching on these days either.

The concept here is not to deny people the right to speak out against the government. If that was the case I'd be one of the first people stripped of citizenship and deported. The concept is to promote the concepts of American Pride and Patriotism again. To take the population from a bunch of different nationalities (Irish-American, Mexican-American, African-American, etc...) and turn us all into just plain AMERICANS again

I hope that answered your questions sufficiently. Feel free to inquire further.

[Mass_SkinsFan]

This country already exists somewhere I'm sure. Do you speak any foreign languages?

Actually a country of that style really doesn't exist anywhere in the world that I have ever found.

I speak a very small amount of French. Just the small amounts from the 3 years I was FORCED to take to graduate high school. If it hadn't been a requirement, I wouldn't have taken any foreign language.

[Darth Tater]

Mass_SkinsFan,

Don't know about current situations but Spanish, Chinese, Russian, German and maybe Italian or Japanese (or one of several asian languages) would all have worked for you a one time.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Mass, that whole "Freedom isn't free" thing works both ways. IOW, if you are going to live in a free country or a tolerable facsimile of one(USA), then you are going to have to make space for those who see things much differently than you. It's just part of the deal, it's always been this way and it really makes us stronger in the long run. Why? Because America is among the only sovreignties in world history that can experience a spontaneous unifying force. When Pearl Harbor occured, we didn't need our patriotism enforced or prescribed...the people rose and the battle was joined and, quite frankly, we were unbeatable in our voluntary unity. The legislation and enforcement of pro-patriotism laws and (gasp) ammendments would deny the US its unique ability to join various races and classes under one flag for a single good and instead turn us into a wealthier, more amoral version of the 1970's USSR. And that would be the end of the dream. All that said, this is still the finest nation that ever was and nobody can take that from us - except ourselves. GBA!