Shaking the Brunell Stigma

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I just wish people who defend Brunell would stop with the "he led us to the playoffs nonsense".

Clinton Portis

A much improved Oline performance

Defense

That's what "led" us to the playoffs and the defense won us a playoff game.

Brunell was along for the ride in the second half of the season.

All I want is a legit open competition between JC and Brunell in training camp. If Brunell proves to be the better QB for us, fine but he shouldn't be handed the job. With his performance over the second half of the season and the playoffs he hasn't earned that kind of security.

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: A-f'ing-men

[EnFoRcEr_uPu]

Somebody else want to take this. I've spent so much energy trying to defend Brunell I think my head will explode if I try it again.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

[waterwagen]

because I've been back to posting for about 2 weeks now and haven't seen anything about mark brunell still sucks.

You go find me one stat that shows he "sucks". He was in the upper half of the league in passing yards, passing TDs, qb rating, and fewest interceptions in '05.

[DCsportsfan53]

I just wish people who defend Brunell would stop with the "he led us to the playoffs nonsense".

Clinton Portis

A much improved Oline performance

Defense

That's what "led" us to the playoffs and the defense won us a playoff game.

Brunell was along for the ride in the second half of the season.

All I want is a legit open competition between JC and Brunell in training camp. If Brunell proves to be the better QB for us, fine but he shouldn't be handed the job. With his performance over the second half of the season and the playoffs he hasn't earned that kind of security.

And there will be an open competition, as there should be every year. JC's is going to have to be really impressive and earn it, thoug. If he does, I'll be ecstatic becasue it means he's ready to go and that bodes well for the future. If he doesn't, I'll still be ecstatic because I think MB can still play at a very high level. What I don't understand is the people who claim to know for sure that JC should be our starting QB on opening day. Sorry guys, I don't think you're seeing something that Gibbs isn't and he seems to think Mark's a pretty damn good QB. Either way it goes, I'm satisfied in the knowledge that there's nobody better in the world at correctly making this decision than the people we've got. Rest assured, they will put the best man for the job on the field. Have faith ye of Redskins ilk.

[Mooka]

Defying logic will do that to you.

The original poster was correct. Another poster here had the numbers, but since Oct 30th, Brunell was simply not that good. This is a case of people falsely attributing FANTASTIC Portis performances plus fantastic defensive outings to the "leader" of the team. Someone else has said and I agree that if Brunell didn't get taken out of that Giants game (due to his injury) we were on our way to losing our hold on that game (and missing the playoffs.)

I mean, I had Seahawk fans laughing at the dude while watching the game. He was pathetic after his injury, no better than he was last year. He had a very good stretch earlier in the year but our team wasn't even winning those games (not his fault, though he liked to eat the ball or 'throw it away' on 4th down end of game plays for some reason.)

TheSteve had the numbers but they did not support the positive perspective on Brunell. But because Gibbs kept him in or there was no better option (in his opinion) people will make all kinds of justifications for it. let's just hope JC is ready to break out and 'save us.'

well said.

I've defended Brunell many times, but only form those that said he outright sucked and we would've won 12+games with Ramsey or Campbell starting.

Just shows how good a team we're developing here when just some QB stability gives us 10 wins. In Mark's credit, I've been waiting 6 seasons for some stabilty at QB.

I still think Brunell will be our week 1 starter next year. I always thought he couldn't hold up for 16+ games anymore, but my position has changed now. The wear and tear didn't get to him; Umenyiora slammed his knee on the ground. If he can stay healthy, I think he'll play as strongly in week 18 as he can in week 1. That's a fairly large if, though.

I don't think Mark will improve that much, but our offense should greatly improve on the road with another year together, mainly the O-Line, and some WR depth.

I'll wait to see JC play before I can comment on him.

[waterwagen]

And there will be an open competition, as there should be every year. JC's is going to have to be really impressive and earn it, thoug. If he does, I'll be ecstatic becasue it means he's ready to go and that bodes well for the future. If he doesn't, I'll still be ecstatic because I think MB can still play at a very high level. What I don't understand is the people who claim to know for sure that JC should be our starting QB on opening day. Sorry guys, I don't think you're seeing something that Gibbs isn't and he seems to think Mark a pretty damn good QB. Either way it goes, I'm satisfied in the knowledge that there's nobody better in the world at correctly making this decision than the people we've got. Rest assured, they will put the best man for the job on the field. Have faith ye of Redskins ilk.

Exactly. I'm very excited about Jason Campbell, but he's done NOTHING in this league yet. We KNOW that in Mark Brunell we have a guy who can lead a team and be, at the very least, a solid quarterback. Got off his back already.

[More Complete]

You go find me one stat that shows he "sucks". He was in the upper half of the league in passing yards, passing TDs, qb rating, and fewest interceptions in '05.

Word! :notworthy

At one point mid season he was on a streak with no interceptions for what like 5 games? He lead the league in fewest interecptions at that point. Yeah he didn't make a ton of AMAZING or flashy plays but he has a ton of smarts. He has a better head on his shoulders than most QBs in the league and it was only his 2nd year in a new system with only a few solid receivers to work with. The guy is good.

[elkabong82]

Brunell was EXCEPTIONALLY better compared to last season. Last season his rating was in the sixties, this year the mid-high 80's. Not to mention our schedule was much, much, much more difficult than last years. Not to mention that Moss and Cooley were the ONLY real receiving options. Not to mention that due to the Moss/Cooley factor, Brunell had to throw a lot of balls out of bounds. Not to mention he deserved the Probowl over Vick as his sats and overall play were better. Not to mention Brunell's scrambling was far better than last season. Not to mention he took us to the playoffs. Not to mention we swept the Cowgirls and Iggles, which hasn't been done in a long time. Not to mention his played only went down AFTER he was injured in the second Giants game. Not to mention his two TD passes to Moss week 2. Not to mention beating San Fran 52-17, the most point we've scored since 1991. Not to mention he's doing all this and is one of the oldest starting QB's in the league. I know there will always be people out there who will bash a player no matter what they do. I just don't understand the dilike from the Skins fans. Brunell got us to the playoffs, is a team leader, has restructured his contract last year and offered to this year knowing he will retire soon and not see all that money, meaning he would take a pay-cut. Brunell is a great guy and I for one will continue to defend him, and i am proud that he is a Redskin, who else is with me?

[iceman330]

Somebody else want to take this. I've spent so much energy trying to defend Brunell I think my head will explode if I try it again.

I cannot defend MB in terms of him being great, and I do think there are better QBs in the NFL. But for right now, we have to give credit where it's due; he did fine for us this year. He moved out of the pocket and made something out of nothing and right now, he's our best option. I am comfortable with him as the starter. He won't be the starter much longer but everyone, including himself, already knows that.

Besides we have bigger issues.....DL being one of them.

[waterwagen]

Brunell was EXCEPTIONALLY better compared to last season....Brunell is a great guy and I for one will continue to defend him, and i am proud that he is a Redskin, who else is with me?

I'm totally with you. You'd think we've had a string of HOF quarterbacks around here considering how people rip MB apart...

[DCsportsfan53]

well said.

I've defended Brunell many times, but only form those that said he outright sucked and we would've won 12+games with Ramsey or Campbell starting.

Just shows how good a team we're developing here when just some QB stability gives us 10 wins. In Mark's credit, I've been waiting 6 seasons for some stabilty at QB.

I still think Brunell will be our week 1 starter next year. I always thought he couldn't hold up for 16+ games anymore, but my position has changed now. The wear and tear didn't get to him; Umenyiora slammed his knee on the ground. If he can stay healthy, I think he'll play as strongly in week 18 as he can in week 1. That's a fairly large if, though.

I don't think Mark will improve that much, but our offense should greatly improve on the road with another year together, mainly the O-Line, and some WR depth.

I'll wait to see JC play before I can comment on him.

Well put. I agree on the part about what it says about our team. Mark Brunell was neither as bad last year nor as good this year as people make him out to be. 04 was an adjustment year, we didn't have the right pieces in place, and the unit as a whole didn't play well. Granted, how good would Peyton Manning be if he didn't have WRs who could get open in 1.5 sec and Edge's running game?

My point is, is it unrealistic to try and build a team around a solid but not spectacular QB, improving his play by improving the quality/play of the players around him? Is this a less viable approach? Afterall, isn't that the way Joe Gibbs built his teams in the past? Consistenly good running game, o-line, WRs and Defense built around a revolving door of smart but not amazing QBs seems to me to be Gibbs preferred formula.

Edit: I think this is one of the foremost examples of how Gibbs values the character of players and players that he trusts over athletic ability.

[FullbackIsKey]

Word! :notworthy

At one point mid season he was on a streak with no interceptions for what like 5 games? He lead the league in fewest interecptions at that point. Yeah he didn't make a ton of AMAZING or flashy plays but he has a ton of smarts. He has a better head on his shoulders than most QBs in the league and it was only his 2nd year in a new system with only a few solid receivers to work with. The guy is good.

I used the word "sucks" to sum up the thought process. I don't think he sucks, I just don't think he deserves all of the love he gets. It should go to CP, Moss, Cooley, and our o-line featuring jon jansen this year, those are the people who allowed brunell to succeed to the level he did. That's really the whole point of this post of mine. That, and I don't want to see us sit another 1st round QB longer than neccessary. Campbell's most likely not not as good as Brunell at this point in terms of smarts, but he's probably getting there, and his physical talents have to be beyond Brunells. It feels like its time to get him some game experience, the only true football teacher, instead of hoping Brunell can make it to the playoffs again.

May cause stirring: I'd rather squeeze into a Wild Card spot with a young, very talented QB with a full 16 games under his belt, and Clinton Portis, than win the division with a smart ol vet QB who can barely move come playoff time from all of the damage he's suffered over the grueling season, and Clinton Portis. (because you have to figure that even the team that wins the NFC east probably won't get a 1st round bye, the division is too tough) And even if campbell goes down, Brunell will be there, with his smarts, and a healthy body.

[Crazyhorse1]

Where were all you guys all year when I was trying to defend Ramsey and getting my head handed too me. Mark had a great year last year, but, let's get it straight and honest-- Gibb's decision to let him play in the playoffs on a bad leg was one of the worse I've ever seen in football. I've not seen a player look so clearly helpless when there were two guys on the side lines twice as good as he was at the time chomping on the bit to replace him. While Brunell was looking like my granfather on a bad day against Seattle, Ramsey was standing there on the sidelines with 90 QB rating for the year, over 5600 yds in the equivalent of a season and a half. and 34 TD passes-- figures Brunell had approximated only once in a career that had last 12 seasons. Worse, last time out, Ramsey had had a rating of 160 and had basically iced the playoffs by beating the Giants.

Some day I might get over the insanity of it, but its going to take me awhile.

The next explosion you hear may be my mind. I hear the Skins are going to give away Ramsey, by far their most protective Redskin player of the last four years, for a fifth round choice.

[Ghost of]

Where were all you guys all year when I was trying to defend Ramsey and getting my head handed too me.

Hi, my name is Ghost of NMcP, you may remember me from the QB flame-wars. I was there all year. I gave Mark his props when his play MATCHED the level of praise he got. That was a brief time and I went right back to the facts.

Funny how close we are on football and how far apart on politics.

[Mooka]

I've not seen a player look so clearly helpless when there were two guys on the side lines twice as good as he was at the time chomping on the bit to replace him.

speculation. Ramsey or Campbell wouldn't have won that game for us. The team struggled on the road all year and Ramsey is terrible away.

Worse, last time out, Ramsey had had a rating of 160 and had basically iced the playoffs by beating the Giants.

Ramsey stepped in and played great, but don't get it twisted. Santanna, Lemar, and CP get all the credit for that victory.

I hear the Skins are going to give away Ramsey, by far their most protective Redskin player of the last four years, for a fifth round choice.

If Ramsey's such a productive player why would we give him away?

[elkabong82]

[quote name=Ramsey had had a rating of 160 and had basically iced the playoffs by beating the Giants.

.[/quote]

If by iced you mean threw a shaky pass to Moss, who then bounced off a Will Allen he was already owning that day and a got a TD that we didn't need to win anyway as BRUNELL had already built up the lead. Then yes, Ramsey iced the playoffs against the Giants. Oh, and I guess it was Ramsey who started all year and got us to the playoffs. :doh:

[skinsfan51]

Manning and Brady have ruined our perspective on QBs. We are under the impression that a starting NFL QB should have a great week EVERY week. That's not realistic, and it's not true of Peyton or Tom. But we THINK that way because they seem to win all the time. Brunell had a GREAT year last year. Yes, he had some bad games (i.e. TB in the playoffs was one of the worst outings I've ever seen by a QB), but every QB has bad games, and he was the field general who got us to the playoffs. I for one appreciate it no matter what the future holds for him.

After a decade of walking in the desert it was nice to get to an oasis last year. I just wanna enjoy it for a while.

[Darth Tater]

i used to feel that way in a sence....but he was one of the leading QB's of the NFC...he had a 89% QB rating...and it was higher until he hurt his leg...he had so few bad games all year...and in those games look at the conditions...(wheather or wtvr it was)

but he played great ball this year...you cant compair him to 2004....he ran,passed, and playd just under pro bowl level....if he had kept his #'s up he would have played in the pro bowl in my mind...and him re-doing his contract was a contribution to the team...he took one for the team and not every will do that...

i dno

~jake

In 2004/05, we lost our starting right tackle at the very begining of the year and our recievers were medicore. In 2005/06, we had our starting line most of the year and a much improved recieving corps. Brunell may not have been that much different in his personal ability over the two seasons but he had much better tools to work with.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Two points:

If you're not going to attribute our 9 other wins to Mark, you can't give the one Giants win to Patrick.

Mark Brunell had an exceptional year and won us a couple games (Dallas & Seattle IMO). His play leveled off at the end of the year when he was banged up. However, playing him vs. TB and Seattle was not even close to one of the worst coaching decisions in the playoffs ever (as one poster wrote). That is just laughable.

[More Complete]

May cause stirring: I'd rather squeeze into a Wild Card spot with a young, very talented QB with a full 16 games under his belt, and Clinton Portis, than win the division with a smart ol vet QB who can barely move come playoff time from all of the damage he's suffered over the grueling season, and Clinton Portis. (because you have to figure that even the team that wins the NFC east probably won't get a 1st round bye, the division is too tough) And even if campbell goes down, Brunell will be there, with his smarts, and a healthy body.

Okay, I see what you're saying and I don't think we necessarily disagree. It might be expecting too much for Brunell, at his age, to finish a full season and go into the playoffs like he just started the season. However, I think the guy deserves all the 'respect' and 'love' in the world for the season he had last year. He really proved A LOT of people wrong. (Boo-nell anyone?)

I'll leave this one up to the coaches. If they have open competition and Campbell is looking like the man, let him start. I'd feel pretty good about our QB situation with a healthy, fresh Brunell on the bench ready to come in should Campbell get hurt or stink up the place. That said, if the coaches think Campbell isn't ready, I'm fine with Brunell as the starter because he's shown a ton of heart and might just deserve it.

[FullbackIsKey]

Manning and Brady have ruined our perspective on QBs. We are under the impression that a starting NFL QB should have a great week EVERY week. That's not realistic, and it's not true of Peyton or Tom. But we THINK that way because they seem to win all the time. Brunell had a GREAT year last year. Yes, he had some bad games (i.e. TB in the playoffs was one of the worst outings I've ever seen by a QB), but every QB has bad games, and he was the field general who got us to the playoffs. I for one appreciate it no matter what the future holds for him.

After a decade of walking in the desert it was nice to get to an oasis last year. I just wanna enjoy it for a while.

I agree on Brady, but not manning, and my reasoning is different. Peyton Manning, by all accounts, is probably the best QB in the NFL, maybe one of the best ever by the time he retires. But with Brady, he's just not as awesome as the media says he is. Brady is an above average QB, nothing more. If you watch, he never has to move in the pocket, he always has great protection, hell, I could make most of the throws he does with the kind of time he has. The Patriots Offense , particularly the O-line, is stellar, not Tom Brady. And as people in general don't know more than they are told by their media sources, Tom Brady gets hailed as one of the greats. Same situation with Brunell, although not to the Brady degreee. Brunell gets all the credit for everybody else on the team holding him up. It burns my ass to see people not able to look past what the media says, and the media never talks about the o-lines of teams.

[redman]

Brunell - who is already among the all time leaders in all of the major passing stats - threw for more TD's (23) than he ever had before (20) and threw for fewer INT's (10) than he ever had in a season in which he'd played 16 games.

When he's healthy, he's better than most starting QB's in the NFL and is perfectly capable of heading a playoff team (as he demonstrated).

What more do you want?