Joe Gibbs needs a hobby

[feeshta]

I don't think most of you guys understand the proposition. We're not talking Maurice Clarett or Lawrence Philips or Marcus Vick. Those guys are seriously disturbed thugs whose contributions on the field will be overshadowed by their probably incarceration at some point.

TO is nothing like that. Yes, he's a me-first kind of player, but he's not an off-the-field menace. He's actually coachable. He's also a phenomenal talent. He'll be playing next year.

The question is, do you think Joe Gibbs could tackle a challenge as large as TO? Most of you seem to think he couldn't. You think TO would tear apart the Skins, and Joe Gibbs -- the man who handled Riggins and Manley and is now handling Taylor -- would be overwhelmed.

I feel otherwise.

Do I think Coach Gibbs could do it? I think I don't need to know bad enough to want to find out. It's just a possible headache and question mark this team doesn't need. Trust me, Coach Gibbs will have plenty to fill his time.

[CurseReversed]

T.Owens needs us more then we need him.

He needs gibbs more then gibbs needs him.

Thats why I would be fine with his joining of this team I think our coaches and players are just the atmosphere TO needs to suceed on the field and fix his image off the field. Wrap your noodle around that:D

[Big Weirdo]

LOL, nice try.

By the way, I've seen your posts around quite a bit recently and I must say I'm impressed. You actually contribute something meaningfull to the discussion more often than not, and even when it's just a joke like this one they are never mean spirited. Whodathunkit, an Eagles fan with class? Isn't that like the 9th sign of the apocolypse or something? LOL!

Keep up the good work, I like having respectable fans of other teams around. It's good for discussion.

Thanks man I really appreciate that. Good forum around here. News hits faster than it doesn't KFFL or anything else on the net. I'll try and keep it up as much as I can. Hard to keep a straight face around Redskin fans

[Peregrine]

lol yeah, we have ST, hes Gibbs hobby

[DCsportsfan53]

I don't agree with acquiring TO, but at least MRMADD had some decent points. Joe Gibbs can handle difficult players, and doesn't simply kick them off the team. In fact, the instance with Riggo shows that on occasion he has even gone after them despite his knowledge of their unruly behavior.

I like your way of thinking MADD, and I think you raised a good point since we are seeing news articles stating that "If you're not a Joe Gibbs guy, you're gone". However, I don't care if you are Mother Teresa, T.O. is a bad apple, and always will be.

Ah, see, but I think people are missing what a Joe Gibbs guy is. A Joe Gibbs guy works hard, sacrifices for the team, is tough and responds to coaching. Lavar, for example was really none of those. Sean Taylor, John Riggins and the like are like that, despite the problems they may have off the field. Gibbs can deal with gun toting, aethistic drunks/druggies who buy into the team but he can't handle choir boys who are slefish or unmotivated. Character might actually be the wrong word to describe what it is he looks for.

[Donita35]

I don't agree with acquiring TO, but at least MRMADD had some decent points. Joe Gibbs can handle difficult players, and doesn't simply kick them off the team. In fact, the instance with Riggo shows that on occasion he has even gone after them despite his knowledge of their unruly behavior.

I like your way of thinking MADD, and I think you raised a good point since we are seeing news articles stating that "If you're not a Joe Gibbs guy, you're gone". However, I don't care if you are Mother Teresa, T.O. is a bad apple, and always will be.

Yeah he is great handling "difficult" players, look how the LA thing played out.

[Om]

I don't think most of you guys understand the proposition. We're not talking Maurice Clarett or Lawrence Philips or Marcus Vick. Those guys are seriously disturbed thugs whose contributions on the field will be overshadowed by their probably incarceration at some point.

TO is nothing like that. Yes, he's a me-first kind of player, but he's not an off-the-field menace. He's actually coachable. He's also a phenomenal talent. He'll be playing next year.

The question is, do you think Joe Gibbs could tackle a challenge as large as TO? Most of you seem to think he couldn't. You think TO would tear apart the Skins, and Joe Gibbs -- the man who handled Riggins and Manley and is now handling Taylor -- would be overwhelmed.

I feel otherwise.

Just two quick thoughts:

1) You say "he's actually coachable." Given his history in San Fran and Philly, I'd be sincerely interested to hear you support that position. Because I have to admit my first reaction to seeing you write that was to chortle. Do tell?

2) You ask if we think Gibbs "could tackle a challenge as large as TO."

First, is it just me, or does that kinda contradict your earlier take on his coachability?

And second, I can almost see making a case for Gibbs maybe trying that eventually ... but not now. Only two years in to rebuilding this franchise from the ground up, he's still in the process of tyring to create a base line of professionalism and accountability across the board. He's made amazing strides, but he's not there yet. At least not to the point of taking on the NLF's current poster child for self-absorbed, team-disruptive behavior.

The impact of saying all the things Gibbs has said about team and accountability and professionalism and lack of ego and leadership and character and all that, and backing it up by risking public ridicule in letting guys like Coles and Arrington walk, would be immediately and seriously undermined by then turning around and bringing in perhaps the biggest "me" guy the league has seen since, oh ... Fred "The Hammer" Williamson.

This team isn't grounded or established enough in the Gibbs mold for that yet.

So yeah, I think he "could" tackle even a major league lunkhead like TO, but I don't think he'd even consider it for this team, at this time.

[DCsportsfan53]

Yeah he is great handling "difficult" players, look how the LA thing played out.

He is great at handling difficult players. That includes knowing when one isn't worth it, as is the case with Lavar. Just because it was decided that it was no longer viable to keep the relationship with LA doesn't mean he can't handle a difficult player. It means he felt this one wasn't worth handling.

[gridironmike]

He has a hobby

It's called NASCAR

Far from a hobby. That is his family business and he is very successful at it. 3 championships and a 2006 rookie on a tear.

[gridironmike]

He is great at handling difficult players. That includes knowing when one isn't worth it, as is the case with Lavar. Just because it was decided that it was no longer viable to keep the relationship with LA doesn't mean he can't handle a difficult player. It means he felt this one wasn't worth handling.

Oh boy. Not again. He did not cut Arrington.

[MRMADD]

You say "he's actually coachable." Given his history in San Fran and Philly, I'd be sincerely interested to hear you support that position. Because I have to admit my first reaction to seeing you write that was to chortle. Do tell?

Are you serious? Have you watched him play? Does he ever look out of position? Does he ever take plays off? Does he ever miss a block downfield? In fact, if you go back and read the quotes from both San Francisco and Philly coaches, before the bad blood, they all say he's quite coachable. Receivers don't require the kind of coaching you give to a QB, but he needs to know more than just his routes to be in position to block downfield. He always seems to be well-prepared. Is he doing that by himself?

Nobody in football works harder to get ready for game day than Owens. He works out intensely, in season and off. His pregame ritual would exhaust most players. He knows the defenses he's facing.

His speed forces defenses to back off the line of scrimmage or call double coverage to stop his big-play ability. His tight-end type of body allows him to run crossing routes without fear, often intimidating defensive backs. T.O. frequently dishes out more punishment than he takes.

He runs crisp routes, blocks downfield, and rarely takes plays off. More than that, unlike a Randy Moss, he runs every route well. And you can't question his heart with the way he came back from a broken leg in the playoffs last year. If you think he's uncoachable, you must think Randy Moss is the Antichrist.

It's off the field that TO is a jerk. No one ever accused him of being anything less than superb on it. Do you imagine he's freelancing out there? That he's just accidently getting to where the QB is throwing the ball?

You can't just read the papers and assume that because the sportswriters have galvanized around the 'uncoachable' position that it's true. It's not. Terrell Owens is coachable, and I'd be willing to bet that if he became a Redskins he'd know the playbook overnight and be the guy in the film room pointing out opportunities to the coaches and his teammates. Now, would I be willing to bet he won't get in a screaming match with someone over the number of balls thrown his way? I'm not going that far -- that would be the lion-sized challenge for Joe.

Again, I'm not arguing that TO is a good guy. He's a jerk. He's just also a very good, very professional player.

[blugene]

If 97 really is your age (and even if it isn't), we need to wipe that drool off your chin and get you back to your room.

T.O. is a cancer NOT a character!

[MRMADD]

If 97 really is your age (and even if it isn't), we need to wipe that drool off your chin and get you back to your room.

Do you need me to come change your diaper again, boy?

If you don't have anything to add, and you clearly don't, why don't you go find somewhere else to play?

[herrmag]

Yeah he is great handling "difficult" players, look how the LA thing played out.

Wow, you really got me there!!! :doh:

Some "difficult" players are worth dealing with. Others, such as crybaby, me first, I want special treatment, "look at me", I talk out of both sides of my mouth, egotistical, selfish, want to be pampered, fragile egoed players are not. Guess which one I think LA falls into?

Not to mention, we just shed 4 million of the cap. How many players do you know of that will give 4 million back? Exactly. So how did Joe Gibbs handle this poorly again?

And thanks for bringing LA into the thread. I thought we were finally going to have one that didn't bring him up. :laugh:

[elkabong82]

T.O. is almost a lost cause at this point in his professional career. he is hitting his early thirties, and some people just won't change as they get older. Antonio Bryany would be a much better "project." Combine that w/ an attitude-prone John Abraham and I think Gibbs will be busy enough.

[Om]

Are you serious? Have you watched him play? Does he ever look out of position? Does he ever take plays off? Does he ever miss a block downfield? In fact, if you go back and read the quotes from both San Francisco and Philly coaches, before the bad blood, they all say he's quite coachable. Receivers don't require the kind of coaching you give to a QB, but he needs to know more than just his routes to be in position to block downfield. He always seems to be well-prepared. Is he doing that by himself?

Nobody in football works harder to get ready for game day than Owens. He works out intensely, in season and off. His pregame ritual would exhaust most players. He knows the defenses he's facing.

His speed forces defenses to back off the line of scrimmage or call double coverage to stop his big-play ability. His tight-end type of body allows him to run crossing routes without fear, often intimidating defensive backs. T.O. frequently dishes out more punishment than he takes.

He runs crisp routes, blocks downfield, and rarely takes plays off. More than that, unlike a Randy Moss, he runs every route well. And you can't question his heart with the way he came back from a broken leg in the playoffs last year. If you think he's uncoachable, you must think Randy Moss is the Antichrist.

It's off the field that TO is a jerk. No one ever accused him of being anything less than superb on it. Do you imagine he's freelancing out there? That he's just accidently getting to where the QB is throwing the ball?

You can't just read the papers and assume that because the sportswriters have galvanized around the 'uncoachable' position that it's true. It's not. Terrell Owens is coachable, and I'd be willing to bet that if he became a Redskins he'd know the playbook overnight and be the guy in the film room pointing out opportunities to the coaches and his teammates. Now, would I be willing to bet he won't get in a screaming match with someone over the number of balls thrown his way? I'm not going that far -- that would be the lion-sized challenge for Joe.

Again, I'm not arguing that TO is a good guy. He's a jerk. He's just also a very good, very professional player.

No, I've never watched him. I'm just making stuff up to annoy you.

That said, the stuff you're talking about is only half the equation. Being in position and hustling on the field are commendable (sad to say that coaching is a necessary component to get a player to do those things, but this is 2006 after all). But if that IS part of coaching, it's not ALL there is to being coachable in my view.

For instance, aren't his constant ****ing on the sidelines to his QB and coaches about not getting the rock enough; his going out of his way to do his "look at me" histrionics in the end zone every time the coaches, the OL, the QB and everyone does THEIR jobs to help him get there; his repeated and public throwing of his teammates under the bus at the first sign of struggle; his difficult and disruptive departures from BOTH of his former teams ... is it not fair to think that Mariucci and Reid both tried their coaching little hearts out to get him to shut the hell up and just PLAY already?

Just sayin'. There's more to being a "coachable" player than having ripped pecs and running hard between the whistles.

And by the way, you can't just read the message boards and decide that all the hundreds of sportwriters who HAVE said he's "uncoachable" are all just blowin' smoke up our butts, either.

[elkabong82]

Correction: Antonio Bryant:silly:

[brewdogmike]

Oh, man. Anybody but TO.

Riggins may have been a boozehound, but when it comes to selfishness and overactive ego, Riggo isn't even in TO's league.

I hope there's no talk of TO in the Skins front office. Please please please. Just say no.

[Om]

By the way.

The Skins have publically and repeatedly said TO is NOT going to be Redskin.

We're just indulging MM's unique angle on getting yet another TO thread going.

[blugene]

I did have something to add: I said he is a cancer not a character!

Riggins was more of a character not a cancer. T.O. spreads hate and discontent where ever he goes.

Do you think he would change his stripes just because he is working for JG? No. First game Brunell doesn't play to his expectations we'll have a soap opera in DC all over again.

And lastly, I can't believe I wasted my time reading yet another T.O. thread.

How's that old fart!

P.S. It's not my diaper that needs changing. At your age, they're called depends!

[brewdogmike]

TO is nothing like that. Yes, he's a me-first kind of player, but he's not an off-the-field menace.

I disagree. I get the impression that TO is lockerroom poison.

[MRMADD]

For instance, aren't his constant ****ing on the sidelines to his QB and coaches about not getting the rock enough

I hate to break this to you: there isn't a single WR in the league who doesn't ***** about getting the ball enough. Didn't Keyshawn write a book about it? Ever heard of Steve Smith? Do you know that he's also known as a hothead? He beat up a teammate in the film room (!) his second year. He constantly ****es about getting the ball. If you're looking for a receiver who doesn't want the ball more, we better stick with Taylor Jacobs.

; his going out of his way to do his "look at me" histrionics in the end zone every time the coaches, the OL, the QB and everyone does THEIR jobs to help him get there

I guess you find Chad Johnson uncoachable too -- I wasn't aware that end zone celebrations were the sign of uncoachability. Was Billy "White Shoes" Johnson, the godfather of end zone dances, uncoachable too?

; his repeated and public throwing of his teammates under the bus at the first sign of struggle; his difficult and disruptive departures from BOTH of his former teams ... is it not fair to think that Mariucci and Reid both tried their coaching little hearts out to get him to shut the hell up and just PLAY already?

Ah-ha! Now you're getting to it. This is where his previous coaches have failed -- with the off-the-field stuff. This is the challenge for Joe. You're slow, but you're getting it. Mooch and Reid failed to contain him in this area. This is the part that I think would be interesting for Gibbs.

[Om]

Well, ONE of us is definitely slow, MM.

While you're doing a semi-credible job of trying to put a fresh coat of paint on this leaky ship, where you're having some difficulty is in that only one of us seems to realize it actually sailed about three weeks ago.

Feel free to scrape some barnacles while you're down there, however.

To indulge your fantasy though, because I'm just that kind of guy ... feel free to see my comments under #2 in my initial response. The part you've ignored.

Perhaps it was the sea foam in your eyes.

[feeshta]

I hate to break this to you: there isn't a single WR in the league who doesn't ***** about getting the ball enough. Didn't Keyshawn write a book about it? Ever heard of Steve Smith? Do you know that he's also known as a hothead? He beat up a teammate in the film room (!) his second year. He constantly ****es about getting the ball. If you're looking for a receiver who doesn't want the ball more, we better stick with Taylor Jacobs.

I guess you find Chad Johnson uncoachable too -- I wasn't aware that end zone celebrations were the sign of uncoachability. Was Billy "White Shoes" Johnson, the godfather of end zone dances, uncoachable too?

Ah-ha! Now you're getting to it. This is where his previous coaches have failed -- with the off-the-field stuff. This is the challenge for Joe. You're slow, but you're getting it. Mooch and Reid failed to contain him in this area. This is the part that I think would be interesting for Gibbs.

There is a difference between the endzone celebrations done by Johnson and Smith and what TO does. If you can't see that difference, you are apparently one of those sad souls that simply has no social sense and there is no way to explain it to you. they are simply not the same animal.

[Seabee1973]

He has a hobby

It's called NASCAR

He also Plays Raquetball and from what i hear is not afraid to beat Danny at it. I just hope he doesnt beat him too often or we wuill have a new coach:D