Controversial Subject

[tlk2rn]

I work as an RN in a hospital so naturally I work with a lot of women. And quite a few of the male RN's are homosexual. I worked in a float pool and they sent me to a floor where 2 gay men were working (and they were flaming man, I mean on fire). Now personally it is your life, do what you want, but I am straight and intend on keeping it that way. Anyway, one of the nurses (a female) said do you feel comfortable working with them. I dont have a problem working with them, just as long as they dont make a pass.

Later that night that same nurse out of the blue asked me do I think they were born gay, right in front of thr 2 gay men. I gave her a pretty stern look (why the heck would she ask me that right in front of them) and asked her why do you want my opinion. Well they were talking about it while I was on break and the 2 men said why doesnt she ask me. Well I told her personally I dont believe anyone is born gay. So that sparked a huge debate. So I went on to a web site to look into that information and here it is.

http://www.troubledwith.com/stellent/groups/public/%5C@fotf_troubledwith/documents/articles/twi_013815.cfm?channel=Parenting%20Teens&topic=Homosexuality&sssct=Background%20Info

I still hold the belief that homosexuality is a decision but I am intersted in everyone else's views on the subject.

[chomerics]

If homosexuality was a decision, there would be no homosexuality in the animal life. There are certain people who are predespositioned to being gay, and it is a natural part of animal life. Case closed, it is really that simple.

[DjTj]

Here's the definitive thread on this topic:

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89815

I went into that thread not really sure and coming out convinced that nobody is born gay (and that nobody is born straight).

[RonJeremy]

If homosexuality was a decision, there would be no homosexuality in the animal life. There are certain people who are predespositioned to being gay, and it is a natural part of animal life. Case closed, it is really that simple.

that sums up my thoughts.

[Johnny Punani2]

While I was in the military I worked with a couple of gay men. One of which was the biggest flammer on the planet. The whole flight, hell the whole group knew he was gay. I would feel very uncomfortable at first working with him esp on mid shifts when it was only me and him working. He would turn up the house music on the radio and start dancing around doing high kicks and acting like the biggest homo on the planet. I would just look at him, shake my head and think, "you make RuPaul look butch."

After a while I got use to him acting like a fruit and even started to bust on him. I nicknamed him Velvet Jones after seeing how he dressed at a club popular with military people off base. He started to call me Elvis because I wore my hair like Elvis did back in the 50's.

I talked to him about this very subject and he got pissed when I told him I believe homosexuality is not genetic.

BTW, speaking of uncomfortable, do you know how uncomfortable it was for me to be the only straight man there while he, his gay roomate, and his gay roomate's gay boyfriend all talked in the next room about some guy who liked the guy I worked with?

[DeanCollins]

I agree with Chom, that many are predispositioned to being gay. There were 3 kids in elementary school (james madison arl.) who acted fruity and were

teased about it, all 3 turned out later to be gay. Now did the teasing they received in grade school act as a power of suggestion? Maybe. But couldn't this also have been influenced by an over nuturing mother who perhaps wanted a girl?

[chomerics]

Here's the definitive thread on this topic:

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=89815

I went into that thread not really sure and coming out convinced that nobody is born gay (and that nobody is born straight).

That's because you fell into Art's pit of despair :laugh:

He does pose a good argument in that thread, but he is ignoring a predisposition of peope to be attracted to the same sex. He blames it on society, which to a certain extent is right, but it is also not understanding the big picture. Some people are just attracted to the same sex. It is really that simple, and when society and people think that it is a learned behavior, then it subjugates the person and isolates their psyche. It is really psychologically dammaging to project people in this manner, and to tell them that they can be "changed", because the simple fact is that a lot of them can not.

[Destino]

Why not be honest and admit that human sexuality and all of it's origins are currently not understood?

Art makes a great point, but in the end that is all it is, a well stated position. Not proof.

[DjTj]

Are there people that are born more likely to be gay? Yes. But nobody is born absolutely gay or absolutely straight. Some portion of sexuality is learned - just ask the stupid pandas at the National Zoo that can't figure it out.

I think in general people like to place too much emphasis on genetics. Mozart wouldn't have been so talented if he wasn't taught to play the violin. Einstein wouldn't have been so smart if he wasn't taught math. Yao Ming wouldn't have grown so tall if he wasn't fed so much rice. Ron Jeremy wouldn't have known how to have sex if someone hadn't shown him. Everything is part nature and part nurture. Some things have more of either category, but every aspect of an individual includes some of both.

chom, you say it's dangerous for people to think that they can be "changed." I think it's equally as dangerous for people to think that nature controls their life. Nothing can be achieved without hard work, and most people can do much more than they think. The problem with this issue is not whether gays and lesbians believe they can be changed, it is that misguided individuals believe they can go around changing gays and lesbians.

The fact that nobody is born gay has nothing to do with how we should treat people. People are not born Catholic, but we are all willing to tolerate different religions. We should be the same way about gays and lesbians - live and let live.

[rincewind]

I think the wording is wrong - i don't think anyone 'chooses' to be gay. Now, whether or not they are born gay...? Its definitely a nature vs. nurture debate, one that is very hard to determine.

Either way, the other RNs were DEFINITELY wrong to put you on the spot like that.

[HOF44]

Here's an intersting article on the topic.

http://my.brandeis.edu/news/item?news_item_id=103895&show_release_date=1

Fruit fly sexual behavior

Display Printable

Released on: June 24, 2005 (Expired)

Contact: Laura Gardner 781-736-4204 or gardner@brandeis.edu

The Oregonian (Portland, Oregon), Wednesday, June 22, 2005

TWEAKING A GENE TWIRLS SEXUAL COMPASS IN FRUIT FLIES

BYLINE: ANNE STREHLOW - The Oregonian

Summary: When researchers turn on the single gene that controls sexual behavior, flies of both sexes act like males and try to mate females

He taps her with his foreleg, extends and vibrates his wings in song, then boldly licks her. It's an elaborate courting ritual bestowed upon the female fruit fly by her eager male suitor.

This dance of seduction toward female love interests, thought to be exclusive to male flies, is admitting new members into the troupe: female flies.

By manipulating a single gene, scientists from Oregon State University, Stanford University and Brandeis University have shown a dramatic reversal of sexual behavior in these tiny insects. Female flies pursuing other females. Male flies courting other males. The discovery is the first of its kind -- one gene conclusively reversing sexual orientation.

Scientifically, the findings are a step forward in understanding how genes contribute to complex behaviors such as mating. Socially, the research will almost certainly fuel the debate over the role genes play in determining human sexual orientation.

The powerful gene at the heart of the study, coined "fruitless" by researchers, single-handedly guides the male fly's sexual behavior. Although the gene is present in the DNA of both sexes, it is active only in males and only in a few isolated regions of the brain and peripheral nervous system.

By activating the ordinarily dormant fruitless gene in the female fly's brain, scientists introduced a normally unwelcome flood of male-specific proteins. The results, published in the current issue of the journal Nature, were astounding.

The female flies behaved in a manner traditionally expected from males, actively seducing other females with courtship foreplay -- tapping and songs. Equally surprising, they also rejected the sexual advances of males. A tantrum-like display of wing flicking and kicking, typical of males, was shown in place of the more docile female behavior.

"When this genetic process was triggered in females, they acted as if they were masculinized," said Barbara Taylor, a professor of zoology at OSU. "In a physical sense the females looked perfectly normal, but they acted like males, and, if they were physically able to, I would not be surprised if they would have attempted to mate other females."

Inactivating the 2 percent of brain cells that normally express the gene in male flies gave similar results. Not only were the males uninterested in seducing females, but also, like their genetically altered counterparts, they developed an increased interest in their own sex.

"It is amazing that changing the expression of one gene in a tiny population of neurons is enough to radically change the behavior of both males and females," said Taylor.

Although these genetic findings in the fly cannot be applied directly to humans, they do lead to speculation about the role genes may play in human sexual orientation. Hesitant to overemphasize this contribution, scientists say other factors should not be overlooked.

"I think you can say that because you see it in flies it raises a real possibility that it might be true in humans, but it certainly doesn't establish it by any means," said Bruce Baker, professor of biology at Stanford University and co-author of the study.

"We know that courtship behavior in flies is a very innate behavior -- it is something the fly is born knowing how to do. We know that in people upbringing, culture and environment have enormous impacts on their behavior," said Baker.

He said that although there may be genetic circuitry in the human brain governing courtship behavior, its effect will be limited by these external influences. Human biological processes are not as rigid as those of the fly.

Although this may be the first gene shown to profoundly affect sexual orientation, the genetically altered fruit fly is not the first member of the animal kingdom, outside of humans, to exhibit homosexual behavior. Such activity occurs in more than 450 animal species, including penguins, ostriches and chimpanzees, according to animal homosexuality expert Bruce Bagemihl's "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity" (St. Martin's Press).

The natural fruit fly population, however, does not fall into this club. According to the scientists, reversed sexual orientation has never been witnessed in fruit flies that have not been genetically altered.

The fruit fly, known by its genus name Drosophila in science circles, is a popular model for studying disease and behavior. Unlike lab rats, fruit flies reproduce rapidly and experience a complete life cycle in a few weeks. The wealth of knowledge regarding their genetics and behaviors also makes them attractive test subjects.

Although humans and fruit flies are separated by 600 million years of evolution, the two species are remarkably alike at the cellular and genetic level. In fact, it is estimated that humans share approximately two-thirds of their genes with the fruit fly, including many of those implicated in cancer progression.

Similar findings about the fly were published earlier this month by an Austrian research team in the journal Cell.

[prophet]

If homosexuality was a decision, there would be no homosexuality in the animal life. There are certain people who are predespositioned to being gay, and it is a natural part of animal life. Case closed, it is really that simple.

So when a dog humps a rug, leg, or a cat.... ect ect...... its predespositioned? Fall down in front of a horny pitbull.... there's a 99% chance he will try to latch on. :laugh:

I would choose to call it being "horned out" at anything that gives satisfaction.

which brings us to another point.... if evolution was true... wouldn't homosexuals die out?

[gchwood]

If homosexuality was a decision, there would be no homosexuality in the animal life. There are certain people who are predespositioned to being gay, and it is a natural part of animal life. Case closed, it is really that simple.

only problem with that is that animals do not have the ability for advanced thought. animals are instinctual. Last I checked no dogs are making cars.

[Mr. S]

I kinda agree with being 'born gay'. Sure I think many of them try being straight but do not feel right, I do not think it is a matter of choice, some people just feel better that way. People in history have been gay, just since it was much looked down upon it was always hidden (Tchaikovsky for instance supposedly was). Seems like a lot of the Roman Emperors were gay, and it definitely shows in the works written on them. Many would marry only to have an heir.

Agree with Cho also about it existing in the animal world, in almost the same percentage as humans, if not more. Animals may not have advanced thought, but I do not believe it makes them any less as we are "animals" of nature as well.

[Prosperity]

When you get down to the core of the issue there really are no choices only your genetics and your environment shaping your thougts. In that same light though everything is a decision. Yeah your genes give you a predisposition to this that and your environment only boosts it, but in the end there was a concious decision, though it was probably inevitable giving the situation. Yes someone chooses to do one hole over another, but was that choice inevitable? Personally, I don't think it matters at all whether homosexuality is a choice or not when it comes to politics.