Gibbs/Campbell

[Fred Jones]

I had a good feel about QB's in the draft too the year NE picked some guy in the 5th round. I mean, every team had a shot to take the guy during the first four rounds but declined. Probably didn't impress anyone in college or impress any of the pro scouts. I sure wish the skins had used their 4th round pick on him instead. If they did, we wouldn't be having this QB discussion.

To continue, if most of the scouts and coaches in the NFL can't figure out if a QB will be great how the heck do fans on a website determine if a guy can make it or not. Cin just got lucky with Palmer. He happened to turn out instead of the rest of the many first round busts in recent years.

[Underwater Ally]

How did Ramsey get into this?!?!?

This tread is about someone asking why Gibbs wanted Campbell, and to have people post some stats about him or at least saw him or followed his play in Auburn. But as usual, it ends up with peoples opinion's that has nothing to do with the main topic.

There's nothing wrong with typing how you feel about this and that, but can we get some post on here about Campbell? I dont follow college that much so it would be good to get some good info on a good question.

Because if all people on this board did was type one sentence posts that were narrowly on topic, but that really provided no intelligent insight or analysis, we'd be theganggreen.com!

:laugh:

[AJ_Skins]

Whoah, whoah, whoah.

I'm no Gibbs apologist, believe me. I know the man coached the team at championship levels, but I also know that those teams played in a VERY different era under VERY different circumstances.

However, I fail to see how you're already projecting Jason Campbell as a QB that merits the statement that Gibbs' decision to draft him "doesn't look good" before he's ever played a meaningful down in the NFL. To me, that's too much of a stretch at such an early juncture.

It's his handling of the QB situation from the very beginning. Grossly overpaying for Brunell, his undecipherable handling of Ramsey, and then giving away half of next year's draft for a QB that was seen by every other team as a "project" at best.

You can't criticize Gibbs for not giving Ramsey enough of a chance just to turn around and criticize Jason Cambell before he ever gets a chance at all.

You can, because playing Ramsey this year would have let the team address other needs, and then this year if need be, go after another QB.

[AJ_Skins]

I had a good feel about QB's in the draft too the year NE picked some guy in the 5th round. I mean, every team had a shot to take the guy during the first four rounds but declined. Probably didn't impress anyone in college or impress any of the pro scouts. I sure wish the skins had used their 4th round pick on him instead. If they did, we wouldn't be having this QB discussion.

To continue, if most of the scouts and coaches in the NFL can't figure out if a QB will be great how the heck do fans on a website determine if a guy can make it or not. Cin just got lucky with Palmer. He happened to turn out instead of the rest of the many first round busts in recent years.

So now you're counting on the odds of him turning out to be the another Tom Brady. When was the last time a QB taken in the 6th round won three championships before Brady? Oh yeah, never.

[Underwater Ally]

People make so much of getting campbell in the first round no one wants to talk about the Actual Bust in Ramsey who was ALSO a first rounder. Weve seen him play. We havent seen Campbell play

How was Ramsey a bust? He was a punching bag under Spurrier, and all he was given under Gibbs was the last few gasps trying to salvage some pride out of a sorry season in 04 leading an admittedly antiquated offese. And still he clearly outperformed Brunell on the field. We don't yet know what Campbell will be, but we really haven't seen much of Ramsey in a real NFL offense either.

Its far too early to apply the bust label to either of these guys.

[NotInOurHouse]

It's his handling of the QB situation from the very beginning. Grossly overpaying for Brunell, his undecipherable handling of Ramsey, and then giving away half of next year's draft for a QB that was seen by every other team as a "project" at best.

You can, because playing Ramsey this year would have let the team address other needs, and then this year if need be, go after another QB.

Playing Ramsey this year would result in a definite losing season and not getting a qb this year like we did would be in a terrible situation next year when the new qb would not only have to acclimate his skills to the nfl but learn the playbook. Basically Gibbs wanted someone who he could trust to manage the team right now which is Brunell and he wanted someone he can mold for the future and that doesnt have bad habits and already thinks a certain way like Ramsey. Lets not forget the one who actually screwed Ramsey up which was Spurrier mechanics wise and mentally.

[SkinsHokieFan]

So now you're counting on the odds of him turning out to be the another Tom Brady. When was the last time a QB taken in the 6th round won three championships before Brady? Oh yeah, never.

Man, hater central

Jason Campbell was in 4 different systems in 4 years and still led his team to a 13-0 record his senior year

He has the raw physical skills, and I dare you to find a place where he was projected as a "project at best"

Hell Peter King (whose opinion I could care less about, but for this argument is relevant) thought that Campbell was the best out of the 3 QB's in the first round

We are not looking for Dan Marino or Brett Favre here, thats not how Joe Gibbs operates

We are looking for a guy who can make the plays when needed, won't make dumb mistakes, and in the 21st century NFL has good mobility

Campbell has that and didn't make the mistakes his senior season

Real hard to judge him before he takes a snap, you can judge the deal that we made to get him, but as far as playing ability, real hard to judge that this early

[NotInOurHouse]

How was Ramsey a bust? He was a punching bag under Spurrier, and all he was given under Gibbs was the last few gasps trying to salvage some pride out of a sorry season in 04 leading an admittedly antiquated offese. And still he clearly outperformed Brunell on the field. We don't yet know what Campbell will be, but we really haven't seen much of Ramsey in a real NFL offense either.

Its far too early to apply the bust label to either of these guys.

I consider you a bust if you have been in the league for 4 years plus and you either dont see playing time for whatever reason or you suck when you do play. If you really dont want to call either a bust then think of it like this Campbell played in a tougher conference and a more pro style offense his senior not to mention played for 3 other coordinators and his been in this uniform for 3 months while Ramsey has been in this uniform for 48 months

[Underwater Ally]

Playing Ramsey this year would result in a definite losing season and not getting a qb this year like we did would be in a terrible situation next year when the new qb would not only have to acclimate his skills to the nfl but learn the playbook. .

You don't know that anymore than AJ knows that Campbell will be a bust. I think the point he's making is that we will continue to lose for the next few seasons regardless of who plays QB because we have no pass rush and have no depth at essential positions such as CB and WR.

People who argue that taking Campbell was essential are trying to make a cake before they've bought any eggs.

[Underwater Ally]

I consider you a bust if you have been in the league for 4 years plus and you either dont see playing time for whatever reason or you suck when you do play. If you really dont want to call either a bust then think of it like this Campbell played in a tougher conference and a more pro style offense his senior not to mention played for 3 other coordinators and his been in this uniform for 3 months while Ramsey has been in this uniform for 48 months

I see.

Newsflash everyone! Steve Young = BUST!

[NotInOurHouse]

You don't know that anymore than AJ knows that Campbell will be a bust. I think the point he's making is that we will continue to lose for the next few seasons regardless of who plays QB because we have no pass rush and have no depth at essential positions such as CB and WR.

People who argue that taking Campbell was essential are trying to make a cake before they've bought any eggs.

The way I look at is that there is a comfort factor. I feel more comfortable with Gibbs selecting a first round qb than Spurrier selecting a first round qb. For one spurrier's qbs sucked in the NFL (guys from Florida). I know you cant guarantee a player becoming great but when you select a qb in the first round and you know what you are doing which I think Gibbs does then Im going to go out and say he will be a good qb not great yet but good. Im going to say that Eli Manning will be a good qb not great yet, Carson Palmer same thing, Roethlisberger same thing, Alex Smith same thing, and even philip rivers. Im sure there are plent of other people who would say before these guys played a down that they would be at least good qbs.

[NotInOurHouse]

I see.

Newsflash everyone! Steve Young = BUST!

Well Steve Young is different he was part of a system where all the qbs that Bill Walsh selected fit his system so he could afford to sit around. Gibbs didnt draft Ramsey which Im sure you know.

[Underwater Ally]

The way I look at is that there is a comfort factor. I feel more comfortable with Gibbs selecting a first round qb than Spurrier selecting a first round qb. For one spurrier's qbs sucked in the NFL (guys from Florida). I know you cant guarantee a player becoming great but when you select a qb in the first round and you know what you are doing which I think Gibbs does then Im going to go out and say he will be a good qb not great yet but good. Im going to say that Eli Manning will be a good qb not great yet, Carson Palmer same thing, Roethlisberger same thing, Alex Smith same thing, and even philip rivers. Im sure there are plent of other people who would say before these guys played a down that they would be at least good qbs.

I don't disagree with your take on Spurrier, but Ramsey wasn't a Spurrier pick. Spurrier didn't want Ramsey, he wanted a WR, but it wasn't his choice. Ramsey became Spurrier's QB when Spurrier was forced to admit that Ramsey was by far the best QB on the team.

As for Campbell, I see a lot of positives. What I question is Gibbs' judgement given his decision making regarding Brunell and the offense in general. Its the difference between an Accountant and an Economist's view of the world. It all comes down to opportunity cost. If Campbell turns out to be a good QB, the Accountant is happy regardless of the team's overall performance. If however the team continues to struggle because of weaknesses elsewhere and the team is not performing as optimally as it otherwise could had different decisions been made, the Economist calls it a mistake. I take the Economists' view.

[myzhi]

The way I look at is that there is a comfort factor. I feel more comfortable with Gibbs selecting a first round qb than Spurrier selecting a first round qb. For one spurrier's qbs sucked in the NFL (guys from Florida). I know you cant guarantee a player becoming great but when you select a qb in the first round and you know what you are doing which I think Gibbs does then Im going to go out and say he will be a good qb not great yet but good. Im going to say that Eli Manning will be a good qb not great yet, Carson Palmer same thing, Roethlisberger same thing, Alex Smith same thing, and even philip rivers. Im sure there are plent of other people who would say before these guys played a down that they would be at least good qbs.

All the QBs you are listed were rated Top 5. Understand, Top 5 potential >>>>> late 1st / 2nd rated picks. So, stop using them as example of JC possible success. Instead, use players that have around same rating when they were picked. Someone list them.

QB success, especially early in their career, is base on the system. Could be a QB with huge upside, but in wrong system, they would sux and career ruin. While, average rated QB could be great in perfect system > success career (Brady).

Is JC great prospect. Don't know. Is he in correct system. Don't know. We'll know when he plays in 1-2 years.

[Mooka]

What gets most boring about this board is the amount of people who talk smack to cover up the weakness of their arguments. Ramsey is a side issue. The question is, what made Gibbs think Campbell was so great that he was worth what he gave up to get him, when nobody else seemed to think so? Nobody knows but Gibbs. It could be Gibbs knows something nobody else does, it could have been a move of desperation, or it could have been a huge over-estimation of Campbell by Gibbs for some unknown reason. Logically, they should have drafted at WR and/or DL and let Ramsey play until he swam or sank this year. If he didn't cut it, you put Brunell back in and then you have your first round pick this year to use for a QB, and potentially make a move for Leinart, who's considered possibly the best prospect since Peyton Manning. Doing what they did last year drafting Campbell made no sense on any level. I'm sorry, it just didn't.

Good lord you make Campbell out to be some nobody. All the draft analysis I saw had Campbell as the #3 QB, and some people had him as better then Rodgers. The general consensus was that he was a an early to mid 2nd round pick. Now seeing as though we didnt have a 2nd round pick, how is trading up to draft Campbell a bad move? What is this business about nobody else seemed to think Campbell was any good? Your seriously telling me that a late 1st round pick is a big difference between a 2nd round pick?

Move of desperation? Unknown reason by Gibbs? Call me crazy, but I'm assuming that Gibbs based his opinion on Campbell when we worked him out, and looking at his career in Auburn.

FYI, Campbell is twice the prospect that Ramsey ever was. You keep supporting Ramsey, yet you forget that Spurrier had no business drafting Ramsey in the first place. Remember he tried to trade Patrick immediately to Chicago.

Forget Ramsey. Gibbs is never going to develop a young QB, whom he doesn't think very highly of, while theres someone on the bench playing better. Just like how Campbell won't play until Gibbs feels he's the best QB, which probably won't be next year.

Your solution of play Ramsey and if he doesn't cut it play Brunell, while being one of the worst teams in the league with a chance to draft Lienhart, just puts this team back another year.

I see your frustration of the trade for Campbell, the 3rd and 4th round picks seem like too much to throw in. I just can't stand all your Ramsey talk when Campbell is twice the prospect that Ramsey ever was.

[Hogskin1]

Unfortunately, a good thread has been turned into "AJ against the world" - or in other words "Redskin hater against the fans". Amazing. The franchise has been crap for 15 years? Real nice AJ. They won a SUPER BOWL in that timeframe. Dolt. Buffoon.

[AzSkinsFan63]

Poise, Touch and scrambling ability........

[Seabee1973]

Gibbs always thought he was a great 'character' guy. I just am not sold on Campbell. Plus I hear he's not the brightest of guys. You seen his Wonderlic scores??? Man. Not that it means much, Fitzpatrick is only 1 of 2 people to ever score a perfect 50 on that test.

The guy did go to Harvard Wonderlick does not mean if you will be successfull or not. If I remeber correctly Ryan leaf scored high on it but not sure.

[Seabee1973]

The truth is nobody knows why Gibbs did what he did. The rest of the league clearly did not see as much in Campbell as Gibbs did, and everybody though QB was way down on our list of needs. It seems to be a classic case of a coach becoming inexplicably enamored with a player, and with nobody else in the organization competent enough or in the position to get him to rethink what he was doing, they end up giving up a bunch of draft picks and ignoring other positions of much greater need.

Hopefully Gibbs is a genius who recognized greatness in a player others thought was not first round material. That's what the homers/teenagers on the this board are hanging their hats on. If not, the team could end up wasting another year or two trying to make something out of it, and then looking for another QB.

Worst case scenario, they get rid of Ramsey and he plays well for somebody else while Campbell stumbles. If so, Redskins=laughingstock of the NFL once again.

I think i can tell yopu why he did it it was a commitment and sign to the fans that he intends to be here and fulfill his five year contract. Can you see the skins winning the superbowl with Brunell and then the next year going and winning it with Jason campbell? I can

[laurent]

All I'm going to say about Campbell is last time the Redskins traded up to get a player they drafted Chris Cooley. Have a little faith will ya?

[Seabee1973]

Who? You must have seen something I didn't. I didn't hear anything about Campbell until the rumor started circulating that Gibbs wanted to draft him. At that point, some of the commentators started backing it up hesitantly out of deference to Gibbs. That was about it. The only person that I heard say Campbell was the best QB in the draft was Doug Williams.

We have (according to Gibbs) 3 QBs who can start. We have no DEs who can rush the passer, and we have one WR.

There were only two QBs of any significance that Gibbs "developed" the first time around: Schroeder and Rypien. Only Rypien won a Super Bowl. Theismann was inherited, and Williams was a free agent.

If what I said above happens, they will be.

What gets most boring about this board is the amount of people who talk smack to cover up the weakness of their arguments. Ramsey is a side issue. The question is, what made Gibbs think Campbell was so great that he was worth what he gave up to get him, when nobody else seemed to think so? Nobody knows but Gibbs. It could be Gibbs knows something nobody else does, it could have been a move of desperation, or it could have been a huge over-estimation of Campbell by Gibbs for some unknown reason. Logically, they should have drafted at WR and/or DL and let Ramsey play until he swam or sank this year. If he didn't cut it, you put Brunell back in and then you have your first round pick this year to use for a QB, and potentially make a move for Leinart, who's considered possibly the best prospect since Peyton Manning. Doing what they did last year drafting Campbell made no sense on any level. I'm sorry, it just didn't.

Griffen when he is healthy can get to the Qb with regularity

[Jumbo]

I see.

Newsflash everyone! Steve Young = BUST!

Jesus. Young was coming up behind Joe Montana and they had the luxury of waiting. Ramsey was benched behind people like Weurffel, Waffler, or whatever, and an ineffective Brunnel until the pain was unbearable. Ramsey is a great guy who still may be a success but he hasn't been able to claim his place here in four years, and in a variety of circumstances, no matter how apologists want to spin it.

We were going to need another QB in a couple years period. Gibbs had every reason to be 50/50 on Ramsey and to be worried about Brunnel after Year 1.

Gibbs liked what he saw in Campbell. Without a trade we wouldn't have a crack at him. Logical progression. And a number of sports writer and analysts liked Campbell, and a number slammed Washington for the deal. What else is new? We got slammed by just as many for taking Carlos at #9 and Taylor over Winslow.

If Campbell does well (plenty of reasonable supporting evidence) Gibbs looks great. If he bombs (always possible, but much less supporting evidence to make it expected) then the nay-sayers will have their Beautiful Day. Do we still need to address WR and DE? Sure. Does AJ deserve to be on everyone's ignore list? Sure.

[Jumbo]

My only concern with that is I still don't trust Gibbs as an evaluator of talent. And I don't trust Vinny as an evaluator of coffee.

Who do you trust?

[Seabee1973]

People make so much of getting campbell in the first round no one wants to talk about the Actual Bust in Ramsey who was ALSO a first rounder. Weve seen him play. We havent seen Campbell play

I dont think you can call ramsey a bust when he has never played a full season.

[Jumbo]

You seen his Wonderlic scores???

Imagine giving the Wechsler Adult Intelligence Scales (WAIS) III tests to all the experts here and see the shakedown. Talk about a bell curve! Ding-a-ling, Baby! :laugh:

Now watch the self-reports come flooding in.....