2nd year coaches

[Henry]

For some reference, here's how the current 2nd year coaches are doing. Every single one took over a team that was 6-10 or worse the year before:

Mularky, Bills: 9-7 last year, 4-8 this year

Turner, Raiders: 5-11, 4-8

Green, Cardinals: 6-10, 4-8

Smith, Bears: 5-11, 9-3

Coughlin, Giants: 6-10, 8-4

Gibbs, Redskins: 6-10, 6-6

Division Records

Mularky: 3-3, 2-2

Turner: 1-5, 0-5 (what a shocker!)

Green: 2-4, 3-3 (Thank you 49ers )

Smith: 2-4, 4-0

Coughlin: 3-3, 3-1

Gibbs: 1-5, 2-1

So, two coaches are clearly doing a better job to this point, and three are clearly doing a worse job. Considering Gibbs was out of the game for 12 years, I'd say he's doing ok so far. Just my opinion.

[zoony]

edit

N/m I misunderstood

Good perspective!

[Henry]

I meant a better job than Gibbs ... from a pure record standpoint, of course.

[Oldfan]

Considering Gibbs was out of the game for 12 years, I'd say he's doing ok so far. Just my opinion.

Yeah, Henry, I'd agree. He's doing okay as a coach...but how's he doing in his role as GM?

I think he overpaid for Brunell, Portis, and Campbell both in draft picks and as hits on the salary cap.

I wouldn't have minded so much losing Antonio Pierce as a cap casualty if it weren't to a division rival.

So far, Joe hasn't gained my confidence as a GM. How about you?

[Henry]

Yeah, Henry, I'd agree. He's doing okay as a coach...but how's he doing in his role as GM?

I think he overpaid for Brunell, Portis, and Campbell both in draft picks and as hits on the salary cap.

I wouldn't have minded so much losing Antonio Pierce as a cap casualty if it weren't to a division rival.

So far, Joe hasn't gained my confidence as a GM. How about you?

I think he's made some mistakes, for sure. I'm still not sold on the Campbell move. Barrow was clearly a mistake. I didn't approve of the Brunell trade at the time, though it seems to be working out now. I call that one a push. Losing Smoot hurt more than Pierce in my opinion. You know I disagree with you that the run game is our primary issue on offense, so I'm sure you think Portis was a bad pickup. I thought it was a fair move, though. Bailey was gone one way or the other, getting Portis for him wasn't terrible ... though I'd have liked to have kept the #2 pick.

But actually, he's doing a better job than I THOUGHT he'd do when he signed on. Picking players has never been his strong suit. Coaching them is. A lot of the moves he has made that I disagreed with initially have worked out. Griffin and Springs I thought were big mistakes, but have worked out quite well. Rabach was a good pickup. Washington was a GREAT pickup. Sellars was a nice find. Cooley was a great pick. Taylor over Winslow ... good call. Moss for Coles ... brilliant.

Overall I think he's doing ok in that department, though I'd agree it hasn't been stellar.

[Oldfan]

I think he's made some mistakes, for sure. I'm still not sold on the Campbell move. Barrow was clearly a mistake. I didn't approve of the Brunell trade at the time, though it seems to be working out now. I call that one a push. Losing Smoot hurt more than Pierce in my opinion. You know I disagree with you that the run game is our primary issue on offense, so I'm sure you think Portis was a bad pickup. I thought it was a fair move, though. Bailey was gone one way or the other, getting Portis for him wasn't terrible ... though I'd have liked to have kept the #2 pick.

But actually, he's doing a better job than I THOUGHT he'd do when he signed on. Picking players has never been his strong suit. Coaching them is. A lot of the moves he has made that I disagreed with initially have worked out. Griffin and Springs I thought were big mistakes, but have worked out quite well. Rabach was a good pickup. Washington was a GREAT pickup. Sellars was a nice find. Cooley was a great pick. Taylor over Winslow ... good call. Moss for Coles ... brilliant.

Overall I think he's doing ok in that department, though I'd agree it hasn't been stellar.

I have always admired Joe's ability to adapt. So, I've never doubted that he would improve upon his awful 2004 offense and bring us back to at least respectability on the field.

But as a GM, it can take a few years before your mistakes come to light and a few more years to correct them. Adapting takes longer. So, I hope like hell that Joe gets it right the first time with his long range planning.

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

and coaches having to rebuild a down franchise. As you can see. Sometimes it takes a few years to turn it around:

Mike Holmgren(SEA)

1999: 9-7

2000: 6-10

2001: 9-7

2002: 7-9

2003: 10-6

2004: 9-7

2005: 10-2

Jack Del Rio(JAX)

2003:5-11

2004:9-7

2005:9-3

Dick Vermeil(STL)

1997: 4-12

1998: 4-12

1999: 13-3

Marvin Lewis(CIN)

2003: 8-8

2004: 8-8

2005: 9-3

[dockeryfan]

Yeah, Henry, I'd agree. He's doing okay as a coach...but how's he doing in his role as GM?

I think he overpaid for Brunell, Portis, and Campbell both in draft picks and as hits on the salary cap.

I wouldn't have minded so much losing Antonio Pierce as a cap casualty if it weren't to a division rival.

So far, Joe hasn't gained my confidence as a GM. How about you?

I think he's doing fine.

The FO probably did overpay for Brunell. Not Gibbs fault.

Portis was a good move to get something for Bailey. Maybe the 2nd rounder was unnecessary. But, again, not Gibbs fault.

Rogers looks great earning his starting role as a rookie.

Campbell was a pick for the future. With the salary cap you have to think a few years down the road, which is exactly what he's doing.

McCune has starting MLB written all over him and was a bargain in the 5th round

Manuel White and Nemo Broughton were an attempt to find his perfect FB/H-B.

Aki Jones was undrafted and he's on the roster getting PT.

Last year there were only 4 picks.

Sean Taylor is a stud. Hands down.

Trading up for Cooley? Who's going to argue with this now?

Molinaro is still a very workable backup getting PT.

The only one not here is Mark Wilson. The other three have roster spots and are major contributors.

Ryan Boschetti has a roster spot and he was undrafted.

The only questionable moves were

1) Antonio Brown, but how do you not try to make him work with his speed? and

2) Cutting Andy Groom in favor of Derrick Frost.

[Oldfan]

The only questionable moves were

1) Antonio Brown, but how do you not try to make him work with his speed? and

2) Cutting Andy Groom in favor of Derrick Frost.

You're being very kind to Joe Gibbs to say that these very minor personnel moves were the only questionable ones he's made.

[jrockster21]

For some reference, here's how the current 2nd year coaches are doing. Every single one took over a team that was 6-10 or worse the year before:

Mularky, Bills: 9-7 last year, 4-8 this year

Turner, Raiders: 5-11, 4-8

Green, Cardinals: 6-10, 4-8

Smith, Bears: 5-11, 9-3

Coughlin, Giants: 6-10, 8-4

Gibbs, Redskins: 6-10, 6-6

Division Records

Mularky: 3-3, 2-2

Turner: 1-5, 0-5 (what a shocker!)

Green: 2-4, 3-3 (Thank you 49ers )

Smith: 2-4, 4-0

Coughlin: 3-3, 3-1

Gibbs: 1-5, 2-1

So, two coaches are clearly doing a better job to this point, and three are clearly doing a worse job. Considering Gibbs was out of the game for 12 years, I'd say he's doing ok so far. Just my opinion.

FIRE GIBBS! Hire Lovie Smith!!!

[Blondie]

Look at the personnel of those teams.

Are our guys better or not as good?

Did we have the "prima donna" players who chose to think of themselves more than the team? Do the teams where we see the coaches doing a "better" job have those players also?

I think these are the types of questions that must fit into the equation.

For me, JG is doing what he does best.

Blondie

[PCS]

Agreed with what both Henry and Blondie are saying. Joe is building a team of Redskins. And the players, if one listens to what many of them have said, have bought into it. It's been a long time since I've heard the kind of things players have been saying and how they have been saying it. With some humility. It is evidenced by the way they have played at times on the field. Certainly there is no quit in these guys. When it appeared as though the Rams had gained momentum, it is my opinion that some Redskins teams in the past would have let it get away from them, especially after the previous 3 games. This team went and took it back.

[jimster]

FIRE GIBBS! Hire Lovie Smith!!!

We also don't have the privlidge of playing in the NFC North

[jimster]

Agreed with what both Henry and Blondie are saying. Joe is building a team of Redskins. And the players, if one listens to what many of them have said, have bought into it. It's been a long time since I've heard the kind of things players have been saying and how they have been saying it. With some humility. It is evidenced by the way they have played at times on the field. Certainly there is no quit in these guys. When it appeared as though the Rams had gained momentum, it is my opinion that some Redskins teams in the past would have let it get away from them, especially after the previous 3 games. This team went and took it back.

I agree with you on this.

This time last week I admit I was one of those who wanted Robert Royal dropped down the depth chart, but Gibbs stayed loyal to him, saying he believed in him and he wouldn't lose his job. Then this week, I saw an inspired Robert Royal who played like I've never seen him play before. - Those are little things that Joe Gibbs does that pay dividends over and over.

[dawgjk9]

we'd have a great division record if we were in the NFC north...i think gibbs has been doing a real good job so far, we havent had building like this in a while as long as i can remember and were trying to build thru the draft and not FA which is also something good. hopefully we have a real good draft this year because that could get us over the hump

[FootballGuy2677]

We also don't have the privlidge of playing in the NFC North

Lol yea, the Bears will get dominated in the playoffs..the game goes even faster than it does now and offences pick it up along with defences...they should be forced out of the playoffs by the 1 round, the 2nd round will be a blessing.

[skinthemboys]

Look at the personnel of those teams.

Are our guys better or not as good?

Did we have the "prima donna" players who chose to think of themselves more than the team? Do the teams where we see the coaches doing a "better" job have those players also?

I think these are the types of questions that must fit into the equation.

For me, JG is doing what he does best.

Blondie

Well put. :applause:

[Bangee7]

I give him a B+ coaching, C- in player talent

A- in picking character players and D- in managing the cap

[SlinginSammy HOF '63]

The Bears won't have the luxery of playing bad teams and beating them 13-10 in the playoffs like they do each week in their division. They'll be a one and done most likely.

[Henry]

But as a GM, it can take a few years before your mistakes come to light and a few more years to correct them. Adapting takes longer. So, I hope like hell that Joe gets it right the first time with his long range planning.

Understood. But if it take awhile longer to see the results of a GMs efforts, why did you bring up Gibbs' GMing at all? If I am incapable of judging his failures and successes for a few more years, how do you magically have this insight?

I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong with your critique of Gibbs' personell moves. I just find it interesting that when I attempted to point out some moves I like, you then decide it's time to bring up the whole perspective angle.

In any event, proper perpective or no, I think Gibbs is doing a fair job as a GM so far. You are correct that we won't know for SURE until a later date, and when that time comes I'll be happy to adjust my criticism accordingly.

[36HAMMER]

The barrow pick up was not his fault, if he had remained healthy it would have been a good p/u. but then peirce would never have been discoverd. but you can't hold gibbs liable for a guys health problems.that didn't occur until after he was signed.it's happened to every team

[Henry]

The barrow pick up was not his fault, if he had remained healthy it would have been a good p/u. but then peirce would never have been discoverd. but you can't hold gibbs liable for a guys health problems.that didn't occur until after he was signed.it's happened to every team

Gibbs gave an $8 million bonus to a 35 year old LB. Injury or no, we overpaid for a guy that age in that position. In my opinion.

[SkinsNumberOne]

we'd have a great division record if we were in the NFC north...i think gibbs has been doing a real good job so far, we havent had building like this in a while as long as i can remember and were trying to build thru the draft and not FA which is also something good. hopefully we have a real good draft this year because that could get us over the hump

as if we have a bad division record right now... only 1 loss.

hopefully we can say that at the end of the year as well, that would be SWEET.

[Henry]

nm - Wrong thread

[gibbsfan2018]

Henry, Barrow did not get $8 SB that was MB