Winslowalrob Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I agree that the seperation of Church and State is not explicitely stated in the Constitution. But people must be VERY CAREFUL with that statement, because it allows a lot of nutjobs to believe that the United States is a Christian nation-state, rather than a nation-state that is predominently Christian. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" after all. We do not vote to make our country follow a religious persuasion, such as Israel. As for your statement that "... it is highly ironic that Christians (mostly) are prohibited from putting up religious displays on public land, in the name of the First Amendment (which is supposed to guarantee the free exercise of religion)," well, I think you miss two vital points; the land is public and there is a wide disparity between the number of Christian symbols versus symbols of other religions. If public property cannot respect an established religiion because that would run counter to congressional laws/ the constitution, and if the tree was presented as a gift to the municipality of Boston, and if the tree is renamed, is it breaking the law, or even the spirit of the law? Or is there some sort of contradiction? Of course, there are instances when the government places religion in the public domain, such as "in God we trust" on the ol' dollar bill, but even then overt Christianity is seldom pushed. And I am still waiting for some responses to my previous, super-brilliant post . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamingwolf Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 everyone saw her post, and she still doesnt think we proclaimed ourselves that way for diplomatic reasons. How the desperate claw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dreamingwolf Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 winslow is more accurate. Still collegiate lead, but on point for the most point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winslowalrob Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 I do not understand collegiate lead. And well we are desperate people, we grasp for straws. Are there any examples that run counter to what was stated in the Tripoli treaty though? Another treaty, law, ammendment, or anything that tells us and other countries how we think the country should be run? That means no speeches guys . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aREDSKIN Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 It's a friggin Christmas tree and it should be called a Christmas tree. I reject the idea that seeing a symbol of a faith that is not your own is insulting. I walk down the street and I see muslim woman in their traditional clothing....I do not feel insulted. I have seen people from diverse backgrounds displaying religious symbols of all kinds, and I have never felt insulted by it. The idea that any exposure to a religious symbol is insulting, is laughable. It's a smokescreen used by anti-religious nut jobs to attack christians. That's all it is. The government putting up a christmas tree is not promoting religion. They are representing the population they are elected to SERVE and nothing more. A christmas tree does not make a statement about our court system, our laws, or anything else. in reality all it means these days is "go buy some **** to put under my branches before it's too late and everyone hates you". If the government came to your house and put a christmas tree on your yard, then I would agree they've gone a bit too far. If they forced your chidlren to sit in front of it and sing religious songs, then again I agree that is too far. If they outlawed all other symbols, then again that is going too far. But the act of putting up a christmas tree is not. /rant Agreed 100%. Ok I just picked myself up off the floor for agreeing with Destino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 since we now have a Holiday Tree, How about a Holiday Candlestick instead of a Menorah (Spelling?), or a Holiday Cloth for Kwanza or a Holiday human sacrifice for those that choose to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 Follow-up: December is Christmas in Oxford, no ifs, ands or buts By TOM McCOAG Amherst Bureau OXFORD — Town councillors have put the Christ back into Christmas by decreeing that no other name be used to describe the holiday season within Oxford’s boundaries. The councillors unanimously passed a motion Monday contending that "the holiday originated from the birth of Jesus Christ." They also voted to make the entire month of December the Christmas season and called on Mayor Lloyd Jenkins to make the proclamation as soon as possible. Deputy Mayor Leonard Allen said he made the motion because of recent news stories indicating that cities and towns were removing the word Christmas from the holiday season in the name of political correctness. Boston considered calling Nova Scotia’s Christmas tree gift to the city a "holiday tree" but relented after a storm of protest. "I think Christmas is what it is, a holiday that denotes the birth of Christ," Mr. Allen said after council’s Monday night meeting. "Politically correct or not, I don’t think the name should be changed because the holiday is what it is." The deputy mayor admitted he didn’t know how well his motion would have gone over in Halifax or Toronto, "but I would have presented the motion there, too, if I was on council there. I do feel that in this rural community where we live, it will be well-received. We here recognize Christmas as Christmas." Mr. Allen stressed that his motion wasn’t intended to offend any other religion but to indicate that as a Canadian he has the right, as does his community, to recognize and celebrate Christmas for "what it is, a celebration of the birth of Christ." He said he would like schools and other groups within the town to use the word Christmas when promoting things like school concerts. Superintendent Gary Miller of the Chignecto-Central regional school board, which covers Cumberland, Colchester and Pictou counties and the East Hants area, said the board does not have a policy decreeing what schools should call their concerts at this time of year. "We leave it up to the school and its school advisory council," he said. "It would be up to the school advisory council in Oxford to make a decision, if indeed it was an issue there." Mr. Allen also hopes to see Christmas manger scenes placed on public property and in public buildings, adding that other religions should also be able to erect icons depicting their important holidays in and on public spaces. "This isn’t a motion that legislates the use of the word Christmas," he said. "It is a political statement in which this holiday is recognized by this community as the Christmas holidays." The majority of Oxford residents are Christian, the deputy mayor said, and as Canadian citizens "we have the right to call Christmas Christmas without offending anyone." Mr. Allen called on other communities to step up and pass similar resolutions. And he said he is prepared to take some criticism over his motion. "I’m sure some will take offence to it, but Christmas is Christmas," he said. "If they don’t like Christ being in Christmas, then they shouldn’t celebrate the holiday." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Well that's that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 It's Festivus for the rest of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted November 30, 2005 Author Share Posted November 30, 2005 OK, this is going too far. I agree that the church would have been better served spending their $11,000 helping the needy rather than on TV advertisements favoring Christmas over Holiday. Raleigh Church Campaigns For More 'Pro-Christmas' In Triangle Stores RALEIGH, N.C. -- At Fig's Market, some products in the store say "merry Christmas," but the store window displays do not. "We definitely don't want to offend anybody," said Fig's Market co-owner Jill Kucera. "We want everybody to celebrate the holiday that suits them and we want to be open to everybody." But Pastor Patrick Wooden believes being "open" closes the door on Christmas. "The way I see it is retailers want to make Christmas money without acknowledging Christmas," Wooden said. So, his church, the Upper Room Church, is doing its own acknowledging. To grab the public's attention, the church is putting on a media blitz that includes advertisements in the newspaper, on the radio and on television -- costing the church approximately $11,000. The advertisements even encourage shoppers to patronize businesses that use the phrase "merry Christmas." Critics argue the Upper Room Church should have spent the campaign's $11,000 on helping the poor, but Wooden said the money is well spent. He adds the church helps the poor locally every week and has also donated money to hurricane victims. Some storeowners also call Wooden anti-Jewish, anti-Islamic and anti-Buddhist, but he says he is simply being pro-Christmas. "If there was a store that had merry Christmas, happy Hanukah, happy Kwanzaa, season's greetings and the like, I would have no problem spending my money in that store," Wooden said. And if the stores do not? "If they don't, as Americans, it's their right," Wooden said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Its a CHRISTMAS TREE if heathens and other religions have a problem with it there is that right called freedom of movement which allows you anti christ types to get the he11 out of my country and relocate to places where you can enjoy being anti god or one of those religions that CHRISTIANS help thrive in hostile environments and even allow to exist in our nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASMTrainer Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYBODY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Tiny Tim could get sued for saying "god bless us everyone" by the ACLU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinInsite Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 HAPPY HOLIDAYS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Its a CHRISTMAS TREE if heathens and other religions have a problem with it there is that right called freedom of movement which allows you anti christ types to get the he11 out of my country and relocate to places where you can enjoy being anti god or one of those religions that CHRISTIANS help thrive in hostile environments and even allow to exist in our nation. I'll leave this reply to you ND, it is an e-mail I sent out to a professor of mine who constantly e-mails RNC propaganda. . . Ummm. . . . Prof. Goldsberry, you do realize that Christmas was a Pagan holiday right? You do understand that the holiday celebrated on the 25th of December is not for the birth of Jesus, but for the Sun God of Roman times right? You do understand that the Pagans were the ones who celebrated the lengthening of the day (Dec. 22nd is the winter solstice) and partied it up. . . but when Constantine wanted to convert the pagans to Christianity, they needed to keep the holiday, because the Pagans wouldn't convert if they couldn't keep their party day. You know this right? One can only assume the reason for removing Christmas is because the Religious Right finally realized this error in judgment, and realized that they were actually celebrating the Pagan Sun God Saturn. There is something else you might want to know. . . the tree was a phallic symbol which stood for male verility. . . so in essence, you are worshiping a big penis. But then again, I bet you also knew that Jesus was a liberal huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 You do know that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT decided back in the REAL MAN Days in the 1800's to make this FEDERAL HOLIDAY so we could Observe the son of God in the Best Nation on Earth. So why do you Godless types who are lucky to be born in this country tripping over that fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Could it be that you need GOD taken out of everything so everything deviant and wrong wont be judged as such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted November 30, 2005 Share Posted November 30, 2005 Navy, take a deep breath and count to ten. That's what I'm doing right now after reading your last three posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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