'Holiday' Tree?

[dreamingwolf]

what about the satanists?

[WallyVon]

How 'bout we call it a ProtestantCatholicMethodistBaptistNonDenominational Tree. We need to be inclusive people.

I just say we get rid of the tree.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I think this Christian bashing thats come to light in recent years goes hand in hand with the Bush bashing that goes on.

Since Bush is vocal in his beliefs and a lot of people hate him, people have started to feel more comfortable about talking smack about Christians.

I'm willing to bet if you took a poll of people who like to bash christians and holiday symbols like christmas trees and such, you'd find a large amount of them hate Bush as well.

[autographcollector]

I just say we get rid of the tree.

You would because you are a naive 21 year old....

[nelms]

I just say we get rid of the tree.

Yes, yes, that's it. Let's get rid of the tree. Can we burn it? Can we, can we, can we? Let's burn it. Let's burn all the trees. muwhahahahahahahhahaha!

[autographcollector]

I think this Christian bashing thats come to light in recent years goes hand in hand with the Bush bashing that goes on.

Since Bush is vocal in his beliefs and a lot of people hate him, people have started to feel more comfortable about talking smack about Christians.

I'm willing to bet if you took a poll of people who like to bash christians and holiday symbols like christmas trees and such, you'd find a large amount of them hate Bush as well.

Well it is not just Bush bashing...it is a wave of political correctness in America which is somewhat disconcerting.

[Thiebear]

Yeah I think ownership should play a bigger role or do you think all the Chinese people that made your clothes ought to have a say about how you dress?

Not even close to being relevant.

The tree is a singularity.

If they gave me a leather jacket that took 5 years to make, I'd call it whatever they wanted.

[Prosperity]

Not even close to being relevant.

The tree is a singularity.

If they gave me a leather jacket that took 5 years to make, I'd call it whatever they wanted.

ok fine let's end this argument

[hokie4redskins]

Christians DO understand that not everybody celebrates Christmas. The problem is, non-Christians DON"T understand us wanting to celebrate and spread holiday cheer. Can't we celebrate in peace without some liberal dip-**** claiming political incorrectness? If you want us to be understanding and open-minded to your beliefs, we expect nothing less from you. That is not the case in this country unfortunately. Seems everybody can be diverse unless you're a Christian.

[WallyVon]

Christians DO understand that not everybody celebrates Christmas. The problem is, non-Christians DON"T understand us wanting to celebrate and spread holiday cheer. Can't we celebrate in peace without some liberal dip-**** claiming political incorrectness? If you want us to be understanding and open-minded to your beliefs, we expect nothing less from you. That is not the case in this country unfortunately. Seems everybody can be diverse unless you're a Christian.

We should just limit trees on public property, then we can avoid these naming problems.

[Destino]

I just say we get rid of the tree.

Of course you do because that's the goal of secularists. Get rid of all this religious stuff once and for all right?

[WallyVon]

Of course you do because that's the goal of secularists. Get rid of all this religious stuff once and for all right?

Glad you're catching on. It has no place in the public eye.

[Destino]

Glad you're catching on. It has no place in the public eye.

I have news...the whole country is catching on. As it grows so will the likely hood of the constitution getting an edit. Do you really think a nation as rich in religious institutions as this one is every going to agree with forced secularism? Religion is at the core of american culture.

[Prosperity]

I have news...the whole country is catching on. As it grows so will the likely hood of the constitution getting an edit. Do you really think a nation as rich in religious institutions as this one is every going to agree with forced secularism? Religion is at the core of american culture.

What do you mean by that?

[Destino]

What do you mean by that?

I mean that if courts continue to use the wall of seperation to remove religion completely from american public space, the constitution will be changed to better reflect what Americans want. The wall was without a doubt intended to keep the US government from establishing a religion, the Brits did this and many of the early American settlers hated them for it. I can't find any reason to think the founding fathers intended to remove all religion mention from all public spaces.

I'm not saying the government should become a christian organization. But I am saying that religious expression in public spaces should be tolerated.

[WallyVon]

I'm not saying the government should become a christian organization. But I am saying that religious expression in public spaces should be tolerated.

It is, so long as it isn't the government itself expressing a particular religious belief.

[Prosperity]

I mean that if courts continue to use the wall of seperation to remove religion completely from american public space, the constitution will be changed to better reflect what Americans want. The wall was without a doubt intended to keep the US government from establishing a religion, the Brits did this and many of the early American settlers hated them for it. I can't find any reason to think the founding fathers intended to remove all religion mention from all public spaces.

I'm not saying the government should become a christian organization. But I am saying that religious expression in public spaces should be tolerated.

I agree that religion should not be forcefully removed from public places, not because I want to see them, but because it seems like a waste of effore and furthermore, it will create this exact same backlash that we see now.

Take away that wall and it is only a matter of time before it does become a Christian organization, much more so than it is now. What we need is for both sides to recognize the other and to just chill the f' out. Too many over reactions.

[Destino]

Take away that wall and it is only a matter of time before it does become a Christian organization, much more so than it is now. What we need is for both sides to recognize the other and to just chill the f' out. Too many over reactions.

I completely agree. The problem is a group of Americans has decided that any form of Christian religious expression in a public space is going to be taken to court. If that remains the battleground then steps will be taken to win the battle by the side in majority.

The point is I don't see the majority allowing a small vocal intolerant minority to dictate a major change in American culture.

[Prosperity]

The point is I don't see the majority allowing a small vocal intolerant minority to dictate a major change in American culture.

That may be true for the trend overall, but is it true for this case? It seems the vocal minority in this case are the people that want to name it a Christmas tree, I mean the government of Boston voluntarily wanted to call it a Holiday tree right?

[China]

That may be true for the trend overall, but is it true for this case? It seems the vocal minority in this case are the people that want to name it a Christmas tree, I mean the government of Boston voluntarily wanted to call it a Holiday tree right?

Since when is the government a majority? Did the people of Boston vote on what they want the tree named or did a minority of people in government choose for them without asking what they thought?

[WallyVon]

Since when is the government a majority? Did the people of Boston vote on what they want the tree named or did a minority of people in government choose for them without asking what they thought?

Its not about what the majority thinks. Protection for the minority is the key.

[Prosperity]

Since when is the government a majority? Did the people of Boston vote on what they want the tree named or did a minority of people in government choose for them without asking what they thought?

The people don't directly vote on constitutional amendments either, the US, Mass, and Boston have republics, they elected the leaders I presume they knew who they were electing. The outcry for the most part seems to be coming from outside Boston.

[dreamingwolf]

The people don't directly vote on constitutional amendments either, the US, Mass, and Boston have republics, they elected the leaders I presume they knew who they were electing. The outcry for the most part seems to be coming from outside Boston.

Liberty

you are probably correct that the population of the city of Boston probably support this, it is a bastion of the far left(still amazes me how a Republican can be governer there). There is no real good statistics of any polling on the issue, the only one I found was an internet one(ya right). Chomo probably has a better feel on the politics of that city than any of us, so he could tell us far better than an internet poll.

I sympathize with the christians who are upset about this, I dont put up a tree but if I did and an elected took that away from me I would vote him out of office. Ultimately liberty is right about this, if the people want elected officials who are aggressively anti-christian then thats what they should get. If I remember correctly boston is mostly catholic, and the pope begrudglingly co-opted the xmas tree. So I could see how they view that as a pagan symbol and would like to see it gone all together. However, it has also become a national tradition, and ya know what it really doesnt hurt anyone.

xmas music everywhere you go, well now that crap pisses me off. Same as muslims blasting their prayers over loud speakers. What I find so retarded about this whole arguement is its over the name, if it was over the symbol that would make more sense but come on people what the hell is so important about a name.

[visionary]

That may be true for the trend overall, but is it true for this case? It seems the vocal minority in this case are the people that want to name it a Christmas tree, I mean the government of Boston voluntarily wanted to call it a Holiday tree right?

A few officials did, yes, not sure what officials. But they wanted to do it to appease some people who might possibly be offended, and so as they would not have to hear complaints about it's name...probably.

[WallyVon]

What I find so retarded about this whole arguement is its over the name, if it was over the symbol that would make more sense but come on people what the hell is so important about a name.

Exactly.

Remember, the religious right started this ebate.