A football officials perspective of what happened

[kingdaddy]

I've been reffing football for 16 years and can understand a lot of how officials call football games. On the 2 point conversion play I can tell you that the side official, the line judge, had no idea if Alstott broke the plane of the goal line. When he ran in and threw up his arms so late it was because he saw Alstott laying go the goal line after he pulled the ball up on his chest. Even though you could not see where the ball was on one single angle of replays, you COULD determine where the ball was after looking at the two or three different angles that they had. I don't believe that the head referee took long enough to look at the replays and combine the angles to make the right call.

There are all sorts of reasons why we lost this game, but, make no mistake about it, the fact is that Alstott was down before that ball crossed the goal line. How can viewers sitting on their sofas see this and the officials who watch the same replay not? I don't know if there is a more frustrating way to lose a game than on an officials blown call supported by replay.

Hopefully, in the future, we won't put ourselves in this position again.

By the way, the force out call was absolutely terrible. It happened on the same sideline.

All we can do is move on and grow from this.

[riggins44]

Good perspective. I agree it was a blown call, but as most of the Redskins and myself

say...it shouldn't have even come down to that.

We just made too many mistakes and they made couple more plays.

Time to move on and get ready for Norv and the Raiders.

[killadingo]

Yeah I posted earlier than the NFL needs to institute a policy where the refs don't just run up to the pile a few seconds later and go by what they see at that moment. Of course the defense relaxes after the whistle and the ball carrier will no doubt move the football forward by then.

The honus should be to not signal anything and go to the replay, because it should indisputably be proven that a TD has been scored, rather than indisputably disproven that a TD (which the ref actually had no idea about) was scored as called on the field.

The ref has no idea, signals a TD, and then the replay system has to overcome that b.s. indisputably. Bogus.

[stwasm]

You know something? I'm not going to use the "blown-call" excuse. It never should have gotten to that point. We need to learn how to put teams away when we have the chance. We failed to do that. If you have your foot on a snake, don't lift it up. It will bite you and this loss will bite us and bite hard!

[Fan035]

I'm still mad over the last call. If instant replay is a part of the game, the officials should get the call right. It seems to me those referees were afraid of taking the game away from the home crowd. Yesterday's game just might mean the season for the SKins.

[kingdaddy]

I'm still mad over the last call. If instant replay is a part of the game, the officials should get the call right. It seems to me those referees were afraid of taking the game away from the home crowd. Yesterday's game just might mean the season for the SKins.

I agree with you. If we finish with the same record as TB, they get the tiebreaker I would bet because they beat us head-to-head. NFL officials should not be influenced by the crowd or, in this case, which sideline they're working on. Both blown calls occurred on Chuckie's sideline. It sounds like sour grapes but it is true. Coaches at all levels will tell you that they believe the refs can be worked to the point of getting close calls.

[REDPepper]

anybody have the name of the ref who blew both those calls?

[EnFoRcEr_uPu]

You know something? I'm not going to use the "blown-call" excuse. It never should have gotten to that point. We need to learn how to put teams away when we have the chance. We failed to do that. If you have your foot on a snake, don't lift it up. It will bite you and this loss will bite us and bite hard!

The fact of the matter is that it DID come down to that. We had a close game, that we had the edge on. We made mistakes, and so did the Bucs. That game was decided on a bad call. So whether it should have come down to that or not, it did. The Refs blew it.

[redskin56]

The same official made the force out call and the TD call on the 2 pt attempt.

Something is fishy here.

I was at the game and when they showed the replay on the jumbotron in frame by frame mode, you saw Allstot's shoulder clearly hit the ground and the ball was down by his stomach at least a foot away from the goal line. There was a collective moan from the crowd. Everyone in that stadium knew he didn't get in.

[REDPepper]

The same official made the force out call and the TD call on the 2 pt attempt.

Something is fishy here.

I was at the game and when they showed the replay on the jumbotron in frame by frame mode, you saw Allstot's shoulder clearly hit the ground and the ball was down by his stomach at least a foot away from the goal line. There was a collective moan from the crowd. Everyone in that stadium knew he didn't get in.

thats what i dont understand, how can all the fans in a huge stadium be able to tell just from a jumbotron,a nd all of us at home can tell, and after looking more closely it is even more clear... how come the ref cant make the call? he has all the time in the world essentialy, and supposedly has better camera angles than us... i said this to my friend yesterday while watching, and i think the ref should be required to have the replay hooked up with the television crew, and he should circle or point out exactley what he sees, and why it is reversed or it stands or whatever... because i just don't see the justification on this one... he didnt even say no conclusive evidence, just said he already crossed the goalline...

[scruffylookin]

I respect your perspective as an official but sorry Kingdaddy, Alstott was not down prior to his right elbow crossing the goalline.

This screen capture is taken before Alstott goes down and his elbow hit the ground and then lunges forward. You could say that it doesn't show the ball crossing the goalline, but it sure as hell also doesn't show the ball not crossing the goalline, the call needs to stand.

[redskin56]

They had much better shots of this at the stadium last night.

You could actually see the ball about a foot short of the goal line and Alstott's shoulder IS on the ground. He was on his back and is left shoulder was clearly ON THE GROUND and the ball was short. I haven't seen any replays from TV and don't know if they showed the same one that they were showing at the game.

They showed the play frame by frame. Alstott getting stopped then flipping over on a pile of players and pushing forward on second effort. Regardless of the second effort, the frame by frame showed is shoulder down and the ball short!

[flashback]

What I can't figure out is why the refs helped you guys with the 2 phantom holding calls against the Cowboys to get you the win in week 2?

[bubba9497]

I agree with you. If we finish with the same record as TB, they get the tiebreaker I would bet because they beat us head-to-head. NFL officials should not be influenced by the crowd or, in this case, which sideline they're working on. Both blown calls occurred on Chuckie's sideline. It sounds like sour grapes but it is true. Coaches at all levels will tell you that they believe the refs can be worked to the point of getting close calls.

:notworthy Finally someone who gets it

[bubba9497]

What I can't figure out is why the refs helped you guys with the 2 phantom holding calls against the Cowboys to get you the win in week 2?

Pathetic :laugh:

[REDPepper]

What I can't figure out is why the refs helped you guys with the 2 phantom holding calls against the Cowboys to get you the win in week 2?

:laugh: what a joke!

[bubba9497]

I respect your perspective as an official but sorry Kingdaddy, Alstott was not down prior to his right elbow crossing the goalline.

This screen capture is taken before Alstott goes down and his elbow hit the ground and then lunges forward. You could say that it doesn't show the ball crossing the goalline, but it sure as hell also doesn't show the ball not crossing the goalline, the call needs to stand.

like that was the only view??? :laugh:

There were three angles that clearly showed different parts of the play to confirm that Alstot never broke the plane with the ball.

The officials are trained to observe the action on the field, just like when they use replay to determine the spot of the ball, you have to use each part in relation to the other to get the call right. The first mistake was call the conversation good, if the official didn't see the ball break the plane, he shouldn't have gave the signal. You can't say, well I think he broke the plane so it's good.. but hey I don't have conclusive evidence to overturn it... even though I am not sure to begin with. The officials have to use common sense and simple logic as well..

[O-11]

I've been reffing football for 16 years and can understand a lot of how officials call football games. On the 2 point conversion play I can tell you that the side official, the line judge, had no idea if Alstott broke the plane of the goal line. When he ran in and threw up his arms so late it was because he saw Alstott laying go the goal line after he pulled the ball up on his chest. Even though you could not see where the ball was on one single angle of replays, you COULD determine where the ball was after looking at the two or three different angles that they had. I don't believe that the head referee took long enough to look at the replays and combine the angles to make the right call.

There are all sorts of reasons why we lost this game, but, make no mistake about it, the fact is that Alstott was down before that ball crossed the goal line. How can viewers sitting on their sofas see this and the officials who watch the same replay not? I don't know if there is a more frustrating way to lose a game than on an officials blown call supported by replay.

Hopefully, in the future, we won't put ourselves in this position again.

By the way, the force out call was absolutely terrible. It happened on the same sideline.

All we can do is move on and grow from this.

In all sincerity I have a question for you. I have never been an official so I wouldn't know. Have you ever feared for your safety or do you know any cases where another ref has? I did play sports in high school and played in places that I didn't know if we were gonna get stabbed or shot before we got out. I felt that as an athlete who didn't have to make a game changing call. However, I would like to know your answer.

[skinsman4u]

What I don't understand is how in the world do you not know that with 57secs left TB was going for a TD. And why would you not have your best cover corners out on Shepard or whatever his name is and the other wideouts. They hadn't been running the ball all day they had no time outs; down by a TD.

Also direct instructions should have been given to the free safety, I think it was 41 to play off a little and when Simms throw it, break on it with a good angle and help out the corner. Also our secondary is suspect; they seem confused whenever they're in a zone and the WR run crossing routes/skinny post. Our corners just pass folks off and know body seems to know who's responsible. Sometime you have to do the unexpected; they were expecting us to blitz.

I would have went 2% prevent with the corners, gave the free safety specific instructions and told everybody else to stay at home to cover the underneath. But how do you not know they were going for a TD and it was going to be a fly 1), due to the time, 2) they didn't have time outs; and 3 they hadn't ran effectively all day. So thats a coaching error and its not Coach Williams and Coach Gibbs either.

Philly did it and took it for a 64 TD, TB scouted it and ran the same thing but to the other side and a different situation. Also the play calling was not good with 2min to go when we had the ball,but I'm not going to touch that. The big thing is our DL is hurting and our secondary is suspect and the league knows it. Hell if they don't have someone who can go man o man in last second situations then put Moss on the corner back him off a little and have him run with him.

Or bring Garnell Wilds back in either way Moss is coming to town, nah the other Moss. But they need to figure out how to get that corner and the free safety on the same page and go through the what ifs, because right now our secondary can't prevent confusion. And now I'm saying 12-4 but figure those cross ups and mix ups its quite evident there's confusion. We also need to look at what other burners the Raiders got over there and watch those trick plays, flee flickers..etc.. because Shepard was one of thos e burners that kind of snuck up on us...this is what scouting and film is all about.

Nevertheless, I'm proud to be a real Redskin fan because we put up 35 points , 389 yds total offense against what was supposedly the best "D" in the league...but you know how that go that best "D" stuff. And I'm most proud of CP man did you see him? CP was straight bringing it; in the 1st qtr he had like 82yds on 7carries...I think we should have ran him a little more and got more points. But thats Coach Gibbs and I'm not touching that. Overall great game. We can easily be 7-4 going into ST Louis, but we (the 12th Man) need to step it up and keep it up. Go Skins and HTTR!

This is the 12th Man and that's all I know.

[ummagumma]

You know something? I'm not going to use the "blown-call" excuse. It never should have gotten to that point. We need to learn how to put teams away when we have the chance. We failed to do that. If you have your foot on a snake, don't lift it up. It will bite you and this loss will bite us and bite hard!

Agreed. If you're gong to live in the paranoid world of the "Refs are out to get us", then you need to factor that into your play. Play like you start the game down by 7. Play the game like each play is the last, not letting the other team cut through you like butter, hoping that things will work out.

And BTW, Mark...when it's forth down and game...THROW THE DAMN FOOTBALL!!!

This team is still so disappointing. Even when you don't expect much from it.

[scruffylookin]

Bubba

I'll agree with you that the refs made some awful calls yesterday.

I'll agree with you that they were gutless in not reversing the Galloway catch on the first play of the final drive.

I also understand that you're not "blaming" the refs for the loss but just trying to hold them accountable since their decisions can determine the result of a game. I respect that and agree with it.

I just have yet to see a picture that clearly shows the ball not crossing the goalline. Without that picture the call on the field needs to stand.

[skinsfan51]

I respect your perspective as an official but sorry Kingdaddy, Alstott was not down prior to his right elbow crossing the goalline.

This screen capture is taken before Alstott goes down and his elbow hit the ground and then lunges forward. You could say that it doesn't show the ball crossing the goalline, but it sure as hell also doesn't show the ball not crossing the goalline, the call needs to stand.

Your screen shot doesn't tell the whole story. This video does. His elbow hit before the goal line. No score. It's clear to everyone--including Aikman--but the refs. Why bother with replay if they aren't going to call it right?

http://d58.yousendit.com/E/02JIZCAQIMN9A3441Y7UW9667J/bull****2.wmv

[G-Prime]

People will say "Well we could have stopped them twice on D when we were ahead" or "We could have converted that 3rd down" Yeah we could have, but we didn't.. So now the game was improperly decided by a referee.. Those guys played to hard last night, both the Bucs and the Skins.. To have the game decided like that is an isn't just.. Ref's need to be punished for blown calls.

[Zguy28]

A blown call is a blown call. Wouldn't it be great though if Mike Allstot had the cohonies to come out and admit he got stuffed short of the goal line? What would the NFL say then...probably take a pageout of Drew Rosenhaus's book:

Reporter: What is the NFL's response to Mike Alstott's claim that he never crossed the goal, thereby costing the Redskins a crucial win?

NFL Spokesperson: Next question! By the way you're fined for criticism of the league! And so is Alstott!

:doh:

[SkinzRool]

I respect your perspective as an official but sorry Kingdaddy, Alstott was not down prior to his right elbow crossing the goalline.

This screen capture is taken before Alstott goes down and his elbow hit the ground and then lunges forward. You could say that it doesn't show the ball crossing the goalline, but it sure as hell also doesn't show the ball not crossing the goalline, the call needs to stand.

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. :nana:

If you can't tell he's down at that angle then maybe you should look into becoming an NFL official, because you are certainly blind enough to qualify.