WT: Gibbs upset about 'mystery' calls

[spanishomelette]

Gibbs upset about 'mystery' calls

http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20051010-115225-8927r.htm

http://www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20051010-115225-8927r_page2.htm

By Ryan O'Halloran

THE WASHINGTON TIMES

October 11, 2005

Upset with the "inconsistency" of Sunday's officiating crew and some of its "mystery" calls, Redskins coach Joe Gibbs said yesterday the team is sending video of several penalties and no-calls to the NFL office.

The Redskins were called for 10 penalties in their 21-19 loss against the Denver Broncos. Gibbs wouldn't say how many plays were sent to the league but he talked about four plays: the safety against the Broncos that was overturned by the "tuck rule," an offensive pass interference call on the Redskins' David Patten, a holding call on Washington's Casey Rabach and a noncall when the Redskins thought Chris Cooley was interfered.

Since his return to the Redskins, Gibbs generally has been critical of the officials after a defeat, but he was particularly animated yesterday.

"We get a touchdown taken back, we get a 30-yard run called back. We couldn't find [anything on the video]," he said. "It's totally inconsistent.

"To be quite truthful, they were cutting us on the backside and they don't call that and then they call something on us that is a mystery. I have to say it: there is some mystery stuff going on. We can't find it. It's a frustrating thing."

The Rabach and Patten penalties happened on the Redskins' second offensive series, which still ended with a touchdown. Rabach's flag erased a 27-yard Clinton Portis run and Patten's penalty negated his 37-yard touchdown catch.

The "tuck rule" took away a Redskins safety in the third quarter.

"Technically, on that one, it probably fit within the rules," Gibbs acknowledged. "The way the rule is written, you could probably say he was trying to tuck the ball."

Broncos coach Mike Shanahan told Denver reporters yesterday, "I looked at the replay and that's why I challenged it. I knew right when I saw it -- it was a classic 'tuck rule.' "

In between rants about the officials, Gibbs admitted, "It's frustrating, but we made enough mistakes to cost us the game -- the two [unsuccessful] field goals, the turnover, the two long runs and the penalties."

Two kickers remain

Even though John Hall has missed the last three games with a quadriceps injury and the Redskins are short on healthy cornerbacks, Gibbs said he will continue to keep Hall and current kicker Nick Novak on the roster.

"We don't have a choice — we have a guy that's hurt so right now we're going with two kickers until we get everybody healthy and then make a decision," Gibbs said.

The Redskins have allowed blocked field goals the last two games and Gibbs called the protection "soft" on Denver's block Sunday.

"We could do quite a few things there," he said. "Obviously, changing personnel and changing the technique are a couple of things we could do there. We shouldn't have any blocked and we've had two so it's a concern."

LaVar's role

Gibbs said LaVar Arrington did not play Sunday because the Redskins limited substitutions of the linebackers. Arrington played two snaps against Seattle the previous week.

"The packages he was in, we didn't use," Gibbs said. "We know it's something that has high interest for everybody and we want LaVar to play, but it was just one of those games."

What Gibbs didn't say is that the bootlegs run by Denver probably limited Arrington's playing time, but regardless he wasn't used in third-down passing situations, either. Chris Clemons continues to get those snaps.

Injury report

Gibbs said during his radio show last night that runnning back Clinton Portis sustained a shin injury against the Broncos and he might not practice early in the week.

Redskins head athletic trainer John Burrell said X-rays on cornerback Shawn Springs' shin were negative and the team was awaiting results of an MRI.

Springs initially suffered the injury last week in practice and left Sunday's game during Denver's second offensive possession.

The Redskins also were waiting to see results of the second opinion Hall requested on his quadriceps injury.

Extra points

Redskins H-back Mike Sellers is tied for the team lead with Santana Moss with two touchdown receptions. "Am I? Wow," Sellers said. "I never thought that would happen." Sellers entered the season without a touchdown since 2001 but has two in the past two games. ...

Right tackle Jon Jansen played Sunday without a cast on his left thumb and he's expected to shed the cast on his right thumb against Kansas City on Sunday.

[G-Prime]

Jansen had something on both his thumbs

[McMetal]

That non-call on Cooley was disgraceful. I think the only reason they didn't call it was because they had called penalties previously in that drive and the refs were trying to "even it out".

Denver had a couple of bad calls go their way too, but none that seemed to affect the game as much as ours. It's getting boring with this cr*p.

[Art Monk Fan]

Jansen had something on both his thumbs

Yeah, and the crew filming the game even zoomed in on his hands at one point so Maas could comment about it. Maas made a big deal about the refs not being able to call holding on a guy in two casts.

[halter91]

Good, I'm not going to blame the loss on the shady calls but some were just so bad. I'm sure Denver had some bad ones called to but Patten's and Cooley's were ridiculous. The thing that pissed me off the most was when Denver challenged when Brunell threw the ball past the line of Scrimage. The Denver basically called the intentional grounding. The refs weren't going to call it until Shanahan cried and whined like a 2 year old girl. Ref's sucked but we still should have, could have won the game. We did dominate the entire game.

The Referee's on Sunday to the Skins!!! :nutkick: :doh:

[ERIC THE REDskinsfan]

It's about time Coach spoke up!! These "mystery" calls have plagued us seemingly ever since Dan Snyder took over the team. Anyone else feel the same way?

[RabidFan]

the TD pass vs Jimoh had the same stiff arm push off by Lelie that Patten did....and no call....pure inconsistent.

[ouvan59]

The thing that pissed me off the most was when Denver challenged when Brunell threw the ball past the line of Scrimage.

Actually that was the refs that challenged it since it was within the last two minutes of the half. I still can't believe they overturned it though. Unless they had a view of it that Fox didn't show there is no way you could see indisputable evidence that he was over.

[darkhorse472]

It's about time Coach spoke up!! These "mystery" calls have plagued us seemingly ever since Dan Snyder took over the team. Anyone else feel the same way?

Did you see how riled up Gibbs was about it on Redskins.com? I thought chairs were going to start flying soon. Then, he came to his senses a bit and I think felt a little embarrassed for losing it. So, he took off.

I wonder if the league will fine a HOF coach? I think his players would respect that.

Those clown refs won't be working the playoffs that's for sure.

[bubba9497]

how many penalties can you miss on 1 TD play

let's see.....

1. hold, 2. chop

3. hold 4. hold

the answer is : 4 :doh:

[DB44]

What are they going to do, fine a Hall of Fame Coach?

I'm glad he said something. The officiating was terrible on both sides.

Shanahan is a whiney little b*tch. Everytime he would scream at the refs it was like giving the baby his bottle.

Still, Patten catches the two pointer and we were tied. :mad:

[gbear]

We've gotten the better of the calls thus far this season. In years past, I've always hoped that over the course of a season, the calls even out. We haven't always been that lucky. So we didn't get the calls on Sunday. Big deal. Yes, the long running plays were the direct result of holds...anything new here? That's league wide. Holding could be called on most running plays. Yes we could have won if they made the calls. They didn't. I still think things even out because I thought we got away with a fair amount against Seattle.

I also remember something my basketball coach said a long time ago. If you get called for fouls 2 times down the court (especially if you think they are ticky tacky calls), take a chance and fould again the third time down the court. Most of the time the refs won't make a call on the same team 3x in a row. I think Cooley was the victem of this type of thinking. It's hard for a ref to keep making calls against a team. They don't want to appear biased (even though not calling things the same way every time is biased). That's human nature.

[bubba9497]

We've gotten the better of the calls thus far this season. In years past, I've always hoped that over the course of a season, the calls even out. We haven't always been that lucky. So we didn't get the calls on Sunday. Big deal. Yes, the long running plays were the direct result of holds...anything new here? That's league wide. Holding could be called on most running plays. Yes we could have won if they made the calls. They didn't. I still think things even out because I thought we got away with a fair amount against Seattle.

we got 1

[gbear]

So it's 1-1. That's better than recent years.

[nyfan]

how many penalties can you miss on 1 TD play

let's see.....

1. hold, 2. chop

3. hold 4. hold

the answer is : 4 :doh:

Amen Brother. I hope this was one of the films the Redskins sent to the league to review!

[Thiebear]

The tuck rule: Please...

[Jimbo]

I still say the ball came out when it hit his left hand. The left hand helped cause the fumble and therefore overrides the "tuck".

[Taylor 36]

I still say the ball came out when it hit his left hand. The left hand helped cause the fumble and therefore overrides the "tuck".

I believe the same exact thing. Plus, when a QB "tucks" the ball, he brings it back to his body. Therefore, by the laws of nature and physics, the ball is not going forward so it cannot be an incomplete pass. This is one of the most stupid rules in the game.

I'm glad Gibbs is speaking up but, I just hope that Gibbs doesn't piss off the refs as a whole, so that they take it out on us for the rest of the season.

[Thiebear]

Rule 3, Section 21, Article 2, Note 2 decided the Playoff game between the Patriots and the Raiders last Saturday. With under two minutes remaining in the game, and the Raiders ahead 13-10, newbie Patriot QB Tom Brady ****ed his arm back in an apparent pass attempt. He pulled his arm down, in the motion of a forward pass, but did not attempt to throw the ball in any way; it was a pump fake. As Raiders' cornerback Charles Woodson came charging towards him, breaking the line in a risky blitz, Brady attempted to protect the ball from the oncoming tackle by pulling the ball towards his body. As he was doing so, Woodson smashed into him, knocking the ball out of his possession and onto the ground.

With 1:43 left in the final quarter, Raiders' linebacker Greg Biekert jumped on the ball and claimed possession. The play was ruled Raiders first down, essentially ending the game. In the minutes that followed, the NFL official in the booth ruled to review the play (under the two minute warning, teams are not allowed to challenge a play, only the designated NFL official is), and referee Walt Coleman overturned the ruling, citing forward motion indicating a pass on the quarterback's part, and so the tackle resulted in an incomplete pass.

in the game it clearly shows the ball went forward for Brady.. still a lame call but a forward pass that hits the ground by definition is "incomplete" if you invoke the "tuck".

------------------------------------------------------------

In the picture above a backwards or lateral pass by Jake when it hits the ground is by defintion still a fumble even with the "tuck" rule, because the tuck states its still a pass as it hadnt made it back to the body.

[DB44]

Beautiful work fellas. My first thought on both runs was there had to be a hold or an illegal block. Coach Williams cover all gaps.

They called a hold on Rabach on Portis' run, same should holds true for the two long touchdown runs. (good job Bubba)

I said at the beginning of the season, we will only be as successful as the Ref's allow it. The refs either let it go or call everything. This make one call than have to make a make up call, but this call resulted in points, but this call will result in the team declining the penalty....and BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Refs suck. All I can ask is that they are better this week.

:logo:

[Potato Sack]

Actually, I wish he wouldn't send any video or even talk about it. Now we have a bigger target on our chests.

I agree that something smelled fishy in Denver. But what good is sending video? You know what they're going to do. THey're going to send a letter of apology. That's it. That's what they ALWAYS do. And nothing changes.

Quite honestly, I think it's ashame that Tagliabue doesn't step in, look at the video himself, decide that some of these refs aren't doing adequate jobs based on their pay, and hand out some suspensions (without pay). I can guarantee the penalties would start becoming more consistent.

As it stands, the league will simply look at the video we send, issue a letter or apology and be done with it. Nothing more. Pretty sad, imho.

[Potato Sack]

how many penalties can you miss on 1 TD play

let's see.....

1. hold, 2. chop

3. hold 4. hold

the answer is : 4 :doh:

Wow! Just WOW! Out of the 3 holds, one of them doesn't look like a hold to me. But the other 2 are so obvious my 90 year old grandmother would have seen them. And the chop? You've got to be kidding me. I'm at a loss. What are these refs looking at the entire time this play is unfolding? Seriously. There is something going on. That video just proves to me that something was very fishy or "mysterious" about the calls - or the lack thereof - that officiating crew made or didn'g make during the game.

If the refs were even remotely consistent during that game, we win. I have no doubt. I kept wondering how on earth Bell had those long runs on our D. I know now, the refs created the holes for him. Shame shame!

[Tarpon75]

We've gotten the better of the calls thus far this season. In years past, I've always hoped that over the course of a season, the calls even out. We haven't always been that lucky. So we didn't get the calls on Sunday. Big deal. Yes, the long running plays were the direct result of holds...anything new here? That's league wide. Holding could be called on most running plays. Yes we could have won if they made the calls. They didn't. I still think things even out because I thought we got away with a fair amount against Seattle.

I also remember something my basketball coach said a long time ago. If you get called for fouls 2 times down the court (especially if you think they are ticky tacky calls), take a chance and fould again the third time down the court. Most of the time the refs won't make a call on the same team 3x in a row. I think Cooley was the victem of this type of thinking. It's hard for a ref to keep making calls against a team. They don't want to appear biased (even though not calling things the same way every time is biased). That's human nature.

I disagree that we are getting the better of the calls this season.The Chicago game was made close only by very inept officiating.I could agree that we have gotten more calls go our way than in previous seasons however.Overall we are still behind the eight ball.I am glad to see Joe responding to the bad calls I. really don't think it is going to make the officials call more erroneus penalties on us than they already are.Just maybe it will have the opposite effect.

[KingGibbs]

This thread is starting to make my blood pressure rise. :cuss:

[jfurdell]

About the tuck rule... the book says:

"any intentional forward movement of [the passer's] arm starts a forward pass, even if the player loses possession of the ball as he is attempting to tuck it back toward his body."

In other words, it doesn't matter if the direction of ball is backward after it comes out... it's still a forward pass if he loses control while tucking it back into his body.