WP: Whither LaVar? Withering, Apparently - Kornheiser

[Leonard Washington]

what woud you do if Holdman or Washington got hurt?

it's up to Lavar to get on the field..... he has to follow his assignment, and learn the defense

it's that simple

aparently chris clemons or khari campbell would get the start over lavar if holdman or washington got hurt.

[TheLongshot]

Dude you can't be serious!!!!! This is good to you? I would not have even posted that!!

This further tells me that what is going on, is WAY more than he is not getting it in practice. For a LB just now average 2 tackles a game!!!!! He should be on the bench!! FAST. This is why I have lost respect for Gibbs in saying "he is happy with the starting LBs". He probably went in the bathroom and threw up after telling that lie!!!

And as I said before, stats don't tell the whole story. They tell you what a player did, not what they didn't do. Is Holdman being beaten like a rented mule? It doesn't seem that way from the games I've seen.

BTW, I posted the stats because when people continue to post the wrong ones, they might actually believe it is true. If you are going to use stats, use the right ones please...

Jason

[0mega]

Arrington > Holdman -- not even debatable.

I'd like a straight answer as to why the face of our franchise, and one of our greatest financial investments IN HISTORY is never on the field.

FREE LAVAR!!! :point2sky

[TheGreek1973]

What reports? You mean from the reporters that aren't allowed to watch practice? Those reports?

Sure they can...from practice...the same practice the reporters are not allowed to see but the coaches are.

Your argument of "they don't practice as well as they play on game day" holds no water in this particular defense since the premise of GW's defense is you need to practice well in order to see the field. If you can't deal with that maybe you should start following another teams defense.

I guess you are the one that hasn't heard anything. Example last week when Lavar was asked about the packages he was involved with he corrected "package".

And I can deal with anything except being lied to. But watch another team? Who are you to tell another skins fans that jerkoff?

[Art Monk Fan]

Keasey isn't ready for play at the weakside position should Holdman get injured. Clemons is a rush backer/end when he plays. Arrington is the primary weakside backer backup should Holdman get hurt. We have enough teams players. It's an idea that is absurd to think you make Arrington inactive simply because you don't like seeing him on the bench in uniform. We have a lot of backups who don't play much or at all who have to be ready to play.

Arrington is currently no different.

I'll buy what you're selling regarding LA being the only legit backup at the WIll backer spot. Campbell's the primary Mike and Clemons is actually our SAM backup, with Keasey slotted behind him there. I thought I remembered GW telling us that all of his backers were required to know each spot, but I wont belabor the point.

My contention was not to deactivate LA because I don't like seeing him on the bench -- you can't make coaching decisions for emotional or P.R. reasons. I was just looking at the roster to see if there's a better game-day use of LA's space on the active roster.

You're right that a lot of backups don't play much, but LA is the only active guy on our D who didn't touch the field all day. We didn't use him teams, never called whatever limited package he's included in and, appparently, Holdman never needed a breather all game long. There's no better use for his roster spot?

As for Clemons as a rush end -- how many times do we send him off the edge to little or no effect before LA gets one game day shot at the QB? We'll lose the game by sending him on one damn blitz in 60 minutes of play?

[Art]

Frankly, I prefer Clemons off the edge to Arrington. He's been routinely more explosive and dangerous in limited time than Arrington usually is in LOTS of time. Arrington is simply not that good a pass rusher from the end spot. He got some sacks with Lewis mostly due to coverage. He only really got one big sack that whole year -- against the Rams.

[Isifhan]

And I can deal with anything except being lied to. But watch another team? Who are you to tell another skins fans that jerkoff?

Hey go-go slinging insults when you're arguments clearly don't hold water. :applause: I await the next one...

The root of the problem is that you think you are being lied to, when you aren't, you just don't choose to accept the facts as they are presented to you.

[bubba9497]

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Are you serious???? Holding is the one infraction that happens every play. EVERY PLAY!!! It just isn't called b/c they aren't always caught. Playmakers deal with it and make plays anyway. Get off the officiating rhetoric. It makes you look like a whiner. Of my fault, you are.

:laugh: 4 holds (3 & 1 chop) on every play? why is it a penalty?

come on you're acting like an ass...oh my fault, you are :doh:

the point was clear,it wasn't bad defense, but creative blocking that freed, Bell. If Griffin wasn't held/tackled he stops Bell for a loss.... Redskins Ball

[Art Monk Fan]

Frankly, I prefer Clemons off the edge to Arrington. He's been routinely more explosive and dangerous in limited time than Arrington usually is in LOTS of time. Arrington is simply not that good a pass rusher from the end spot. He got some sacks with Lewis mostly due to coverage. He only really got one big sack that whole year -- against the Rams.

I've got hand it to you Art, either you know something the rest of us don't or you're one stubborn dude. I'm dying to drink the cool-aid on this one, but the rhetoric and the reality don't mesh. GW keeps saying LA is getting better but he went from spot play against Chicago to 5 plays in Dallas. Then 2 plays against Seattle to no time at all in Denver.

GW has repeatedly said LA will play more as he improves. GW has repeatedly said LA is getting better every day. LA's playing time decreases every game. The reality don't match the rhetoric.

Do you already have your justification prepared for next Sunday when LA is inactive for the game?

[bubba9497]

The root of the problem is that you think you are being lied to, when you aren't, you just don't choose to accept the facts as they are presented to you.

BINGO!

[Art]

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This conversation is clearly going the wrong way. I read and respect your opinions, Art. Though they seem to be borderline mis-placed, they're generally thought provoking.

You have your opinion and are entitled to it. At the end of the day we both want whats best for DC and that's a winning team. Obviously my strategy is more insightful than yours (throat clearing).... j/k

This isn't a difference of opinion, Oracle. It's a difference of reality and in such, it is not easy to figure out what's wrong with people. Lavar's not playing for ONE reason and one reason only. He makes enough mistakes in the system to be a greater risk to our team than reward from his big-play ability.

That's it. That's all. Now, he is also hurting himself with his false statement that he had no idea why he's not playing when he did or some things in the background about how he generally feels about things, but, he can overcome that by simply getting his mind right and ready and getting in there. He's digging his own hole.

The fact is not a guess. I don't know how much more clearly it can be stated to you. It's OPENLY expressed WHY Lavar isn't in. Gibbs said against Denver they didn't trust him due to the misdirection of Denver. Meaning, Lavar makes mistakes with that type of offense. It's simple. Easy. Once you get to the point you accept the reality of this, then you'll wonder why you were posting he should play DESPITE the fact everyone around him can't figure out why he can't figure it out.

[Waleo32]

Frankly, I prefer Clemons off the edge to Arrington. He's been routinely more explosive and dangerous in limited time than Arrington usually is in LOTS of time. Arrington is simply not that good a pass rusher from the end spot. He got some sacks with Lewis mostly due to coverage. He only really got one big sack that whole year -- against the Rams.

Get out of here!! Clemons has two games where he's a impact last year, and now you're jumping on his bandwagon. Please how bias do you sound?

[Art]

I've got hand it to you Art, either you know something the rest of us don't or you're one stubborn dude. I'm dying to drink the cool-aid on this one, but the rhetoric and the reality don't mesh. GW keeps saying LA is getting better but he went from spot play against Chicago to 5 plays in Dallas. Then 2 plays against Seattle to no time at all in Denver.

GW has repeatedly said LA will play more as he improves. GW has repeatedly said LA is getting better every day. LA's playing time decreases every game. The reality don't match the rhetoric.

Do you already have your justification prepared for next Sunday when LA is inactive for the game?

It is not drinking Kool-Aid to simply understand what's happening from the facts available to us all. GW is right that lavar is getting better. The fact that he went from more play against Chicago to no play against Denver isn't a reflection of Lavar getting worse. It's a reflection of the teams we're playing getting better. The teams we're playing having the propensity to do things Lavar doesn't do well against.

And, more importantly, the opportunity to get Lavar in with the packages he's assigned was greater against Chicago than Denver because Chicago had a lot of clear passing situations. Ray Brown only plays jumbo plays. If we have a game we have a lot of short yardage, he could get 10 plays. Or he could get no plays if we don't. That's what happens when you have limited packages. The fact that you don't understand the game well enough to know how this works is YOUR fault. It is not at all contradictory. Game situations dictate the use of packages. Against Chicago it was one situation. Denver was another. Those are inconstant.

Lavar's improvement in practice is simply that, improvement. It's not yet enough to get him in more packages in the eyes of the staff or the teammates around him. Everyone wants him in. He's just not ready.

[Art Monk Fan]

It's OPENLY expressed WHY Lavar isn't in. Gibbs said against Denver they didn't trust him due to the misdirection of Denver. Meaning, Lavar makes mistakes with that type of offense. It's simple. Easy.

Doesn't that seem decidedly un-Gibbsean to anyone else? Joe Gibbs doesn't call out players in public and openly disclose their failings, does he? Hell, he continues to say nice things about Coles to this day. This situation just don't seem right to me in a lot of ways -- maybe I'm paranoid, but the circumstancial case keeps building.

[The Oracle]

:laugh: 4 holds (3 & 1 chop) on every play? why is it a penalty?

come on you're acting like an ass...oh my fault, you are :doh:

the point was clear,it wasn't bad defense, but creative blocking that freed, Bell. If Griffin wasn't held/tackled he stops Bell for a loss.... Redskins Ball

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if, if, and more ifs. If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle. If Bo Jackson didn't get hurt.... If Theismann didn't get injured.... If LA was playing.... Stop the whining... Believe it or not, missing calls are a part of the game. Get over it!!! And please, stop that damn sniveling!!! From a grown-ass man, no less

[Art]

Doesn't that seem decidedly un-Gibbsean to anyone else? Joe Gibbs doesn't call out players in public and openly disclose their failings, does he? Hell, he continues to say nice things about Coles to this day. This situation just don't seem right to me in a lot of ways -- maybe I'm paranoid, but the circumstancial case keeps building.

Gibbs didn't call him out. He answered the question that against Denver's misdirection Lavar didn't play. The reason he didn't play is kind of unstated there, but is known to the world. He still says nice things about Lavar as well. Lavar's failings are well known to the league and everyone around, as are his strengths. There's a reason players make fun of him as Mr. Can't Get Right. He's also a dynamic force.

When he helps us solve more problems than he creates by playing he'll be in there kicking some major butt.

[The Oracle]

Gibbs didn't call him out. He answered the question that against Denver's misdirection Lavar didn't play. The reason he didn't play is kind of unstated there, but is known to the world. He still says nice things about Lavar as well. Lavar's failings are well known to the league and everyone around, as are his strengths. There's a reason players make fun of him as Mr. Can't Get Right. He's also a dynamic force.

When he helps us solve more problems than he creates by playing he'll be in there kicking some major butt.

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Ok, Art. Your dime-store prophecy is beginning to become unintelligible. Stop using opponents BS to turn on your "2nd favorite" Skins player.

[Art Monk Fan]

It is not drinking Kool-Aid to simply understand what's happening from the facts available to us all. GW is right that lavar is getting better. The fact that he went from more play against Chicago to no play against Denver isn't a reflection of Lavar getting worse. It's a reflection of the teams we're playing getting better. The teams we're playing having the propensity to do things Lavar doesn't do well against.

And, more importantly, the opportunity to get Lavar in with the packages he's assigned was greater against Chicago than Denver because Chicago had a lot of clear passing situations. Ray Brown only plays jumbo plays. If we have a game we have a lot of short yardage, he could get 10 plays. Or he could get no plays if we don't. That's what happens when you have limited packages. The fact that you don't understand the game well enough to know how this works is YOUR fault. It is not at all contradictory. Game situations dictate the use of packages. Against Chicago it was one situation. Denver was another. Those are inconstant.

Lavar's improvement in practice is simply that, improvement. It's not yet enough to get him in more packages in the eyes of the staff or the teammates around him. Everyone wants him in. He's just not ready.

Art,

I understand that you're frustrated with me and the others who find the LA situation fishy. I understand that you feel you've laid out a rock-solid case and that I'm the one being stubborn. But you've repeatedly reverted to questioning the football knowledge of folks here in a rather insulting manner. I risk getting banned by you for saying this, but you know you'd ban one of us for doing the same thing. I'd hoped you could disagree with me without insulting my intelligence.

I understand the concept of packages. I understand that the nature of the opposing offenses will dictate which packages are called. However, it appears that LA is in only a very few (maybe only 1) packages at this point. We are told he continues to improve, yet the number of packages in which he plays has apparently not increased. I admit this is speculation; LA may have gone from 3 to 6 packages and none of them were used on Sunday -- improbable, but entirely possible.

I think most of us expect that a talent such as LA will work his way into the "starting" role, much as Taylor did when he came back from his self-imposed exile. That his continued improvement has not warranted inclusion in any (many) additional packages seems odd to me. That his continued improvement has not warranted his spelling Holdman at any point in any game, seems odd to me.

If LA is being counted on to step in for an injury, shouldn't we at least keep him warm on game day? On a defense with no real starters, it seems odd to me that he never sees the field. It could be you are totally correct. Perhaps LA is such an undisciplined player that he simply cannot be trusted to ever touch the field. If so, I hope they find a way to move him in the off season.

It just doesn't seem credible to me that this brilliant staff can find absolutely no way to use this talented young man on Sunday afternoons. If Williams can hold Denver to 92 passing yards with Ade Jimoh, he's got to be smart enough to find a use for LA.

[Art]

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Ok, Art. Your dime-store prophecy is beginning to become unintelligible. Stop using opponents BS to turn on your "2nd favorite" Skins player.

Obviously it all is unintelligible to the unintelligent. But, it's a simple thing for the rest of us. We, as fans, have ALWAYS known Lavar's propensity to make mistakes within the system he's playing. It was so bad under one coordinator that coordinator GAVE UP trying to teach him and simply put him in a position with less thinking involved.

The fact that I happen to be among Lavar's biggest fans should be meaningful here in that I am able to put that joy of watching him aside when acknowledging the flaws in his play. He's got strengths and weaknesses everyone knows about. One coordinator gave up on him. Another is refusing to play him until he shows improvement. Obviously, the problem isn't those top defensive minds.

Right?

[Waleo32]

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Ok, Art. Your dime-store prophecy is beginning to become unintelligible. Stop using opponents BS to turn on your "2nd favorite" Skins player.

When you say players... you mean player. Warren Sapp refers to him as that. Nobody else. Get it together. You believe what you want to believe. You probably believe what the President says too right? Wrong Quote I meant to quote Art.

[Art Monk Fan]

Obviously it all is unintelligible to the unintelligent. But, it's a simple thing for the rest of us.

There you go again Art, are the insults really necessary?

...We, as fans, have ALWAYS known Lavar's propensity to make mistakes within the system he's playing. It was so bad under one coordinator that coordinator GAVE UP trying to teach him and simply put him in a position with less thinking involved...

...He's got strengths and weaknesses everyone knows about. One coordinator gave up on him. Another is refusing to play him until he shows improvement. Obviously, the problem isn't those top defensive minds.

Right?

Maybe GW really likes LA and this is all just tough love. Maybe rather than covering LA's weaknesses for a year or two and then cutting him loose, GW want's to fix it 'cause he loves the kid? The whole "we're gonna get it right if it kills us both" approach?

Or maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part, but you've got to hang you hopes on something, eh?

[Waleo32]

No response

[Art]

AMF,

I could disagree with you without questioning your intelligence if you'd avoid making statements that lack intelligence. Suggesting a statement that Lavar is improving in practice is contradicted by decreasing playing time is an unintelligent statement.

You need to know enough to know how personnel groupings work and when they are called and how the game situation dictates a lot of that. What you can't do is allow your confusion as to these concepts to allow you to form a position that somehow someone else is incorrect for doing something you can't grasp.

If you understand the concept of packages and you grasp the nature of how opposing offenses will dictate the use of those packages you KNOW why Lavar isn't being used from game to game while not at all contradicting the fact that he's improving in the system in practice.

The fact that Arrington is not in on a lot of packages is clear. It's not apparent, it's true. The fact that he's improving and being TOLD he's improving doesn't mean his packages increase. It means he's getting better. He's just not yet GOOD ENOUGH.

When you hear, "Lavar is ready," and you don't see him playing, you can wonder why. When you hear, "Lavar is improving," and he isn't playing, you know he's improving, but not yet enough to be added to more groupings.

There's nothing odd about it.

That his continued improvement hasn't gotten him to a point where coaches are comfortable using him to spell Holdman is a simple assessment that he's not ready to do that yet. That's all. He will be ready. Just not as of Sunday.

Williams isn't giving up on Lavar like Lewis did. He's going to get him to a place he can help the team by being system sound and dynamic. I hope he doesn't give up on him just because he's not ready yet.

This brilliant staff has a million ways they can design to use Arrington on game day. They would love to employ those plays. Arrington won't yet let them yet. One day, we hope, he will.

[Art]

No response

Actually, no, more than one player have made similar comments. Are you guys really so out of touch on this issue that you don't know history?

[The Oracle]

Obviously it all is unintelligible to the unintelligent. But, it's a simple thing for the rest of us. We, as fans, have ALWAYS known Lavar's propensity to make mistakes within the system he's playing. It was so bad under one coordinator that coordinator GAVE UP trying to teach him and simply put him in a position with less thinking involved.

The fact that I happen to be among Lavar's biggest fans should be meaningful here in that I am able to put that joy of watching him aside when acknowledging the flaws in his play. He's got strengths and weaknesses everyone knows about. One coordinator gave up on him. Another is refusing to play him until he shows improvement. Obviously, the problem isn't those top defensive minds.

Right?

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"Obviously it all is unintelligible to the unintelligent." Interesting... Now see, I tried to be nice with you, but you can't do that with everyone.

You must like to read your own postings, hear yourself talk, etc. I've got more ADVANCED degrees than you've had women, little boys, whatever. And in reading your comments posted, I've PLAYED more football than you've ever watched, since no one that's played Blue-chip and/or pro football would ever say such things (unless you're simply a closet hater?)

So do us all a favor and put down the Madden '06 and mingle with real players so you can gain some intelligent insight on the game, the psychology of a football player, etc. Remember, they're why people like you have a job and don't just give "jobs".