Gibbs and Spurrier Agree

[GatorEye]

First let me begin with the statement that people calling for the end of the Gibbs v2.0 are just downright comical. I mean, we are tied for first in the NFC East and we actually won our game. Since we couldn't hang 50 on 'em and he now has Ramsey riding the pine we should retire him to the old geezer's home for brain dead head coaches? I'd say that's a little harsh.

Having said that, I think he's basically making the best of a bad situation much like the Ol' Ball Coach. Let's draw a few comparisons. Gibbs is noted for winning Super Bowls with 3 different QB's, so I'd say he is a fair judge of QB's and what it takes to run his system. While no one will and should give any kudos to Spurrier for his head coaching ability, you'd probably be hard pressed to find many that would argue, he's knows QB's and how to get the most out of them for his system. He knew DW was the best QB for his system despite his lack of physical tools for the NFL.

Spurrier had Ramsey as a rookie and first year QB so that is going to be a large part of the reason he wasn't going to get the nod by Spurrier, but Spurrier did agree on the trade to Chicago that never happened which I doubt he would have if he truly thought he had something special. Despite a valiant and heroic effort in being pummeled in his system there were a LOT of points left on the field because of his inabilty and the Spurrier knew it. Spurrier's offense needed a better QB than Gibbs because his offense is high risk - high reward whereas Gibbs just needs a game manager. Spurrier could have tolerated the turnovers because in general he's just going to try to outscore you and figures he'll hit more long bombs than will be intercepted. Despite that Spurrier still probably realized he was not going to succeed for a variety of reasons, but one certainly being that he had a QB that wasn't executing his offense as he should. The team easily could have won a lot more games with better QB play and I'd guarantee we would have made the playoffs under Spurrier if we had Williams as DC, but of course that is just a pipe dream.

Gibbs just needs someone to manage a game and not turn the ball over. So when you hear him say something like "Mark had a great game out there" when he only threw for 130 yards he really means - "He didn't throw any interceptions, no turnovers, threw the ball away when there was nothing there instead of taking the sack and didn't cost us the game - he played great". Ramsey could throw for 300 yards have 2TD's, 1 interception, and a fumble and Gibbs would say that was a poor performance. It's just the way it is.

Gibbs is looking at dealing with PR probably 10x more a week in person than the 1 1/2 hours of TV time we get to see him. Who knows better?

So Spurrier saw something in Ramsey that didn't fit well in his system and Gibbs sees something as well. I'm not saying MB is the answer, but given the choice when you need a game manager between MB, PR, or a rookie, the choice for Gibbs while on the surface was difficult, was probably crystal clear deep down.

Following that, if we finish the season at .500 or worse, then you have to take a deep look at whether what Gibbs is trying to do will work. His past doesn't buy him anything today except the ability to land a top notch staff, which Spurrier wasn't smart enough to realize. However just because Gibbs WAS great, doesn't mean he still is or can be. It's possible, but it doesn't guarantee it. Things change, time changes, people change.

I'm betting on Gibbs, but he needs one more full season before anyone begins to make any judgements especially since we are 1-0. Let's see what he has in store for the 'pokes.

HTTR!

[One_Mic]

First let me begin with the statement that people calling for the end of the Gibbs v2.0 are just downright comical. I mean, we are tied for first in the NFC East and we actually won our game. Since we couldn't hang 50 on 'em and he now has Ramsey riding the pine we should retire him to the old geezer's home for brain dead head coaches? I'd say that's a little harsh.

Having said that, I think he's basically making the best of a bad situation much like the Ol' Ball Coach. Let's draw a few comparisons. Gibbs is noted for winning Super Bowls with 3 different QB's, so I'd say he is a fair judge of QB's and what it takes to run his system. While no one will and should give any kudos to Spurrier for his head coaching ability, you'd probably be hard pressed to find many that would argue, he's knows QB's and how to get the most out of them for his system. He knew DW was the best QB for his system despite his lack of physical tools for the NFL.

Spurrier had Ramsey as a rookie and first year QB so that is going to be a large part of the reason he wasn't going to get the nod by Spurrier, but Spurrier did agree on the trade to Chicago that never happened which I doubt he would have if he truly thought he had something special. Despite a valiant and heroic effort in being pummeled in his system there were a LOT of points left on the field because of his inabilty and the Spurrier knew it. Spurrier's offense needed a better QB than Gibbs because his offense is high risk - high reward whereas Gibbs just needs a game manager. Spurrier could have tolerated the turnovers because in general he's just going to try to outscore you and figures he'll hit more long bombs than will be intercepted. Despite that Spurrier still probably realized he was not going to succeed for a variety of reasons, but one certainly being that he had a QB that wasn't executing his offense as he should. The team easily could have won a lot more games with better QB play and I'd guarantee we would have made the playoffs under Spurrier if we had Williams as DC, but of course that is just a pipe dream.

Gibbs just needs someone to manage a game and not turn the ball over. So when you hear him say something like "Mark had a great game out there" when he only threw for 130 yards he really means - "He didn't throw any interceptions, no turnovers, threw the ball away when there was nothing there instead of taking the sack and didn't cost us the game - he played great". Ramsey could throw for 300 yards have 2TD's, 1 interception, and a fumble and Gibbs would say that was a poor performance. It's just the way it is.

Gibbs is looking at dealing with PR probably 10x more a week in person than the 1 1/2 hours of TV time we get to see him. Who knows better?

So Spurrier saw something in Ramsey that didn't fit well in his system and Gibbs sees something as well. I'm not saying MB is the answer, but given the choice when you need a game manager between MB, PR, or a rookie, the choice for Gibbs while on the surface was difficult, was probably crystal clear deep down.

Following that, if we finish the season at .500 or worse, then you have to take a deep look at whether what Gibbs is trying to do will work. His past doesn't buy him anything today except the ability to land a top notch staff, which Spurrier wasn't smart enough to realize. However just because Gibbs WAS great, doesn't mean he still is or can be. It's possible, but it doesn't guarantee it. Things change, time changes, people change.

I'm betting on Gibbs, but he needs one more full season before anyone begins to make any judgements especially since we are 1-0. Let's see what he has in store for the 'pokes.

HTTR!

WoW, very nice post, I feel the EXACT same way. Couldnt hyave said it any better myself. :applause:

:notworthy

[authentic]

i think we should allow Campbell to start next year, and try to talk Brunell into retirement, especially if he doesn't work out this season.

[Cassow]

I mean, we are tied for first in the NFC East.

HTTR!

Its been ONE GAME! but I guess you should say it while you can..

[sweet daddy]

So then why did he name Patrick the starter before the season?

[GatorEye]

i think we should allow Campbell to start next year, and try to talk Brunell into retirement, especially if he doesn't work out this season.

And our backups would be...

Granted, being drafted #1 he needs playing time, but I'd like to get past week #2 of THIS season before we annoint him the starter next year. I think we all can see what kind of trouble that can get you in (announcing next year's starter at the end of the previous season).

[GatorEye]

So then why did he name Patrick the starter before the season?

Hindsight is 20/20, but I'm guessing Gibbs had hope based on how the end of last season went.

However, given the ridiculously fast hook Gibbs used to bench him, it doesn't sound like Gibbs thought he made any progress as what he hoped or he certainly would have given him a few more games. Three series isn't much, but it seemed to be enough in addition to what he saw in preseason and offseason.

[sweet daddy]

Three series in first game of the year is not giving someone "every opportunity".

[Bang]

Three series in first game of the year is not giving someone "every opportunity".

Is nearly two years of watching him throw and practice and play enough time to see anything?

I mean, maybe i'm way off base here, but it's not like Ramsey just showed up last week and asked to play. It's not like he's a mystery to the coach.

~Bang

[One_Mic]

So then why did he name Patrick the starter before the season?

Cuz, Gibbs is ULTRA conservative, and he says and does all kinds of things to try to throw the rest of the league off on what he is really tryin to do. So when reporters asked "what if Ramsey does bad every game?", Gibbs said that he would start no matter what happens. Come on, 3 picks for a #1 QB, did we not already see this commin. You dont go after a top young guy if you plan on keepin the young guy that you already have.

Altho, I do feel that it was really F'd to treat Ramsey like he was the man then turn his back on him.

Its like givin a little girl an ice cream cone, then smackin out of her hand before she even has a chance to eat it. (LOL, thats a funny visual, mean, but funny.)

[citigent]

Ramsey may be a solid qb in the nfl someday but it wont be for the skins,

ramsey is a 'gunslinger' , thats not what giibs is looking for and since the positive or potenatial is not out weighing the bad (turnovers)it loooks like its over for him. Maybe if he was throw some touchdowns with those turnovers it would be different , and though there has been many excuses , maybe if Ramsey showed any progess it would be different i am not a talent scout but i dont see how theres much if any difference from this years version of Ramsey then him as rookie.

[codeorama]

Being the Spurrier fan that I am, I have watched both of South Carolina's first 2 games.

The no name qb that Spurrier has running his offense does 1 thing well. He gets rid of the ball. The offense looks very much like it did with the Skins, except they don't have the overall talent since most of the players were recruited by Lou Holtz. But, they are moving the ball and throwing downfield, because the qb is reading the D and getting rid of the ball quickly.

Ramsey never did it consistantly. I remember many times that I could see who the blitzer was yet Ramsey never once looked his way and would get blind sided.

Happened many times.

People blamed that on Spurrier's system, yet, Ramsey does the same thing in Gibb's system, he did the same thing at Tulane. There is a pattern.

[Mr. S]

there is no question that Ramsey is not as good of a game manager as Brunell. It just seems like Ramsey should be given a couple games chance before being benched, just like Brunell had about 9 games worth of chances last year before he got benched.

[PCS]

Well now. There could be some type of forum rule broken here. Gibbs and Spurrier used in the same sentence. Get back to ya on that one.

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

This is a great post. Good job GatorEye.

[ntotoro]

Three series in first game of the year is not giving someone "every opportunity".

Honestly, what improvement have you seen in Patrick since '02? What forward progress have you seen him make since then? Be honest. I'm sure Coach Gibbs has been aware of his lack-of-progress, especially last season when he had to simplify the play calling. There has been a whole lot of stretching going on in terms of Patrick's overall ability. Coach Gibbs can't afford to take another season just to see what happens and think maybe he'll get better when he hasn't made huge overall strides since entering the league in any aspect.

[SonnyRules]

Nice post Gatoreye. :applause: :dallasuck

[wskin44]

Most insight yet on the subject. Thanks. My 2 cents: Ramsey frustrates coaches because physically he has enough talent to be a starting QB in the NFL, and mentally he is smart enough and tough enough. That is why good QB coaches like Gibbs and Spurrier keep giving him chances. Unfortunately Patrick hasn't been able to translate that talent/intelligence into the good and quick decision making necessary. Coaches & fans keep hoping for PR to do it, but he just hasn't yet. And since his problem is inside of his head, it is easy to keep hoping that he can fix it. For now, Joe Gibbs has decided that he can't wait any longer. It's Dallas week and his old nemisis Bill Parcells is the coach and Joe has many painful memories and he is tired of PR's issues getting in his way.

[jrfriedm]

Gatoreye~

Very nice post. I think that you made some very nice points and I hope that you're right. I just that Brunell is able to hit the deep ball this year.

[Sammy Baugh]

I believed that Ramsey, under Joe Gibbs would become the kind of QB we needed. When Gibbs said Ramsey was his man, I thought here we go, Gibbs is going to make Ramsey a 1st rate QB. I thought Joe saw something. However, every time I heard Ramsey speak, I was uneasy. He just did not seem to be a leader or take charge kind of guy. He really did not have the kind of "stage presense" that I think the great QBs have. He always seemed kind of nervous and IMHO just didn't seem comfortable. I trust in what Gibbs sees and does when it comes to QBs.

:dallasuck :dallasuck

[sweet daddy]

Point...If he new all along that he wasn't comfortable with him then he should not have named him the starter....and say he will be given every opportunity. Winning games is what counts and PR was not given the chance to win games.

I would think...of course being rational here...that "every opportunity" would mean something similar to MB's opportunity last year. Now it is Gibbs right to make the decision....I expected him to be a man of his word...and on this particular topic he hasn't been.

Talk all you want about PR has been here two years....and no progress....fine if that is how you feel...then DON'T name him the starter and say your going to give him the chance and not. A preseason and three series does not add up to a significant opportunity.

As an honest person I don't know how any can spin this as being handled correctly.

[RabidFan]

you forgot "seasons change, feelings change"

[FranklinNoble]

So then why did he name Patrick the starter before the season?

This baffles me as well. I think Gibbs should have stuck with Ramsey just a little longer after making this announcement. Either that, or he shouldn't have said it in the first place.

If we win with Brunell, Gibbs is a genius. Hell, one win this week against Dallas and all will be forgiven. But if Brunell stinks in this game, it's going to get ugly.

[wskin44]

There was always the chance that PR would change. Gibbs could see that he didn't. The Skins have a lot invested in PR. Maybe when his ego calms down he will think about what his responsibility is in his benching. That is the only way that he can start to make the internal changes necessary to be successful.

[jimster]

Is nearly two years of watching him throw and practice and play enough time to see anything?

I mean, maybe i'm way off base here, but it's not like Ramsey just showed up last week and asked to play. It's not like he's a mystery to the coach.

~Bang

This what I don't understand why some here don't want to acknowledge - it hasn't been based on 4 bad pre-season games and 1 quarter of our first game. - Thats all WE have seen. The coaching staff have seen every day for the last year and a half.

There was always the chance that PR would change. Gibbs could see that he didn't. The Skins have a lot invested in PR. Maybe when his ego calms down he will think about what his responsibility is in his benching. That is the only way that he can start to make the internal changes necessary to be successful.

I agree. I don't think this spells the end of Ramsey, but maybe this is the way he needs to realize that what he's doing will not allow him to be the QB of this team.