Ramsey Haters Part 2

[PREDICTOR]

You Ramsey Haters think WE have it bad. The Houston Texans have David Carr....who by the way the experts NEVER bad mouth. Here's a guy who has twice as many starts as Patrick and has been in the same system for 3 staright years...and last night he went 7-19 for 52 yards and TWO ints. And yet everybody out there says that PAtrick is the one under the microscope. Why is that?

I mean Patrick came into the league at the exact same time as Carr and Harrington...and Patrick has had better numbers than either of them. Yet everybody always focuses on Patrick as the guy who is failing. Maybe thats because his coaches are always trying to replace him while Carr and Harrington have been given the job from day 1 and nobody ever questioned them.

At the end of this year PAtrick will catch up to Carr and Harrington in number of starts and before the year is out, Patrick will be the guy that Detroit and Houston WISHED they had drafted....and after the opening game...Chicago will be wishing they had made that trade during Spurriers first year....you know..the one where the Redskins offered him to Chicago but they only wanted to give up a 2nd round pick. A 2nd round pick...remember that Pat.

[goldenster95]

Good post. I was just about to mention that.

This guy has had . . .

• Four years in a legit NFL system.
  A ringing endorsement from the Texans' brass with respect to his starter status.
  An offense specifically geared to his strengths.

And he's still tanking.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I agree. Carr hasn't had as much talent around him though, but whatever. He seems to get a free pass.

Edit: Does anyone know how texan fans feel about him? Also, they might not have a qb controversy due to the fact that the #2 guy might not be a veteran like Brunell.

[spanishomelette]

But the real Texas team has Tony Banks as the backup...We've been down that road before :laugh:

[Clinton Portis]

But the real Texas team has Tony Banks as the backup...We've been down that road before :laugh:

A road that should never, EVER under any circumstance be travled again. :doh:

[Spaceman Spiff]

But the real Texas team has Tony Banks as the backup...We've been down that road before :laugh:

Oh really? well Carr it is.

[goldenster95]

You know, Banks didn't do nearly as badly as I thought he'd do. He really did "manage" games well under Marty's close shepherding. Marty did a great job ensuring that Davis won games for us, and Banks simply directed traffic most of the time.

[Spaceman Spiff]

You know, Banks didn't do nearly as badly as I thought he'd do. He really did "manage" games well under Marty's close shepherding. Marty did a great job ensuring that Davis won games for us, and Banks simply directed traffic most of the time.

I think Goldenster must automatically love all of our Qb's we've ever had jk

No, Banks wasn't that bad, but not that great...not a franchise qb, just a stopgap player. I'd take him over jeff george though...who else did we have at qb that year?

I'll go out on a limb and say i think Marty got the shaft...I liked his style of gameplay, especially since we had a power back like Davis. I would have liked to have seen another year from Marty to see what he could have done.

[SkinsFTW]

Carr is similar to what Ramsey has been doing by having a great game every 2 or 3 weeks followed by bad or very bad games. At least Ramseys worst games are still pretty decent though.

And the fact that Carr has started every game and still hasn't outperformed Ramsey also. One thing Carr doesn't have is Portis and a great defense though. Ramsey doesn't have to throw 30 passes a game to win like Carr does. Ramsey should do well enough for us this year but I'd hope he gets a chance to have a great season for us in 2006. QB's do take more than parts of 3 different seasons under different coaches and with major player and scheme changes to get it going in the NFL.

[RedskinzOwnU]

i'd take ramsey over carr, harrington, pennington, and probably a few other QBs as well. Our team needs a QB to lead it. Really, all the other pieces are pretty much in place. Our team is very similar to the buffalo bills right now. Let's hope Ramsey can be the guy.

[goldenster95]

I think Goldenster must automatically love all of our Qb's we've ever had jk

No, Banks wasn't that bad, but not that great...not a franchise qb, just a stopgap player. I'd take him over jeff george though...who else did we have at qb that year?

I'll go out on a limb and say i think Marty got the shaft...I liked his style of gameplay, especially since we had a power back like Davis. I would have liked to have seen another year from Marty to see what he could have done.

Hey, I had no love for Banks. But, as the old saying goes, "blest are those who expect nothing, for they shall not be disappointed." Well, I expected nothing with Banks. When he came up with a performance that rated him within the bottom 30% of the league, I was, in relative terms, ecstatic.

And yes, Marty did get the shaft. We were 8-3 going into the 2002 season. Davis was being used the way he should have. Oh well.

[PREDICTOR]

Patrick is the underdog. I almost feel sorry for Pat. Think about it.

From the moment this kid got drafted...his team tried to TRADE him. Then his new coach started 2 Florida has beens who failed in the NFL AHEAD of him.

Then when he finally gets a NEW coach....that coach trades for another washed up QB to start AHEAD of him

And to get yet ANOTHER slap in his face...that same coach drafts a rookie QB who is proclaimed by all the experts RAMSEY'S REPLACEMENT.

Patrick must have one heck of an ego because most guys including Carr...would have wilted and quit football by now. I really admire PAtrick for persevering despite all the obstacles that have been thrown at him, like multiple systems, multiple coaches, limping receivers, greasy hand receivers, and constant media put downs. Nobody has had faith in him and I'm not sure he should ever feel comfortable with the way Gibbs has surrounded him with replacements. But if Gibbs was trying to motivate Patrick...well consider him motivated. Go Patrick....SOME of us WANT you to succeed.

[Ghost of]

Carr's offensive line is still subpar, but they DO have Domanick Davis. I don't look to Carr to just go 12-4 despite inadequate talent around him, but he does have Andre Johnson, Billy Miller and Domanick Davis.

It depends on how he raises his game this year. Again, he doesn't have to win on his own, just play well within what could reasonably be expected of him.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Patrick is the underdog. I almost feel sorry for Pat. Think about it.

From the moment this kid got drafted...his team tried to TRADE him. Then his new coach started 2 Florida has beens who failed in the NFL AHEAD of him.

Then when he finally gets a NEW coach....that coach trades for another washed up QB to start AHEAD of him

And to get yet ANOTHER slap in his face...that same coach drafts a rookie QB who is proclaimed by all the experts RAMSEY'S REPLACEMENT.

Patrick must have one heck of an ego because most guys including Carr...would have wilted and quit football by now. I really admire PAtrick for persevering despite all the obstacles that have been thrown at him, like multiple systems, multiple coaches, limping receivers, greasy hand receivers, and constant media put downs. Nobody has had faith in him and I'm not sure he should ever feel comfortable with the way Gibbs has surrounded him with replacements. But if Gibbs was trying to motivate Patrick...well consider him motivated. Go Patrick....SOME of us WANT you to succeed.

I don't know a Redskin fan who doesn't want him to succeed because we know that if he succeeds, we'll succeed.

I lost respect for Ramsey when Brunell came aboard and Ramsey mumbled something about a trade. What kind of competitive spirit is that? Shut up, come to camp, play your ass off and maybe you could take the starting job.

Yes, the odds have been against him every step of the way, but I wouldn't want a qb who is fazed by adversity. That put a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

[goldenster95]

I don't know a Redskin fan who doesn't want him to succeed because we know that if he succeeds, we'll succeed.

I lost respect for Ramsey when Brunell came aboard and Ramsey mumbled something about a trade. What kind of competitive spirit is that? Shut up, come to camp, play your ass off and maybe you could take the starting job.

Yes, the odds have been against him every step of the way, but I wouldn't want a qb who is fazed by adversity. That put a little bit of a bad taste in my mouth.

As far as I recollect, Ramsey himself muttered anything about a trade, his agent did. When Ramsey was asked about the trade, if memory serves me well (which it may not as it has not on too many an occasion before), he stated, credibly, that he didn't want one.

[Spaceman Spiff]

As far as I recollect, Ramsey himself muttered anything about a trade, his agent did. When Ramsey was asked about the trade, if memory serves me well (which it may not as it has not on too many an occasion before), he stated, credibly, that he didn't want one.

My memory is a little hazy on it as well. I think after Ramsey went through a camp with Brunell and realized he could learn from him he quieted down. But I'm pretty sure I remember hearing Ramsey say himself that he wasn't happy when Brunell came to town. I'm gonna search around espn.com for a bit to see what i can find. I have a feeling we're both right about certain aspects of the story.

Edit: Stupid espn insider! what the hell do i have to pay to read old articles for? Here's an article that looks to concern his agent: http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1740608

Here's one that concerns Ramsey: http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=1732172

[goldenster95]

My memory is a little hazy on it as well. I think after Ramsey went through a camp with Brunell and realized he could learn from him he quieted down. But I'm pretty sure I remember hearing Ramsey say himself that he wasn't happy when Brunell came to town. I'm gonna search around espn.com for a bit to see what i can find. I have a feeling we're both right about certain aspects of the story.

I don't precisely recall, but I don't think Ramsey ever complained. Maybe someone else can help us out here. I'll tell you this though, if he did, I wouldn't blame him. After he gets drafted, Spurrier wants to trade him. Then Spurrier keeps him but screws him up. Then Gibbs comes in and puts some pretty clear writing on the wall. Don't think most of us here would've taken much issue with someone like that in the position he was in.

[goldenster95]

Spiff, I remember seeing that article as well. When I did and others as well, we noted that there were no quotes attributed to Ramsey himself. I don't think Ramsey ever went on record as saying so.

Also, here are some pretty telling quotes from the Fat Man, who's never had a kind word to say about any 'Skin . . .

Ramsey is well regarded around the league

If the Redskins ever put Ramsey on the trade market, they would certainly find buyers

This was the prevailing thought of Ramsey before the 2004 season. Ramsey then proceeded to do well as a starter at the backend of last year. How he did anything to damage that league wide view of him is truly a mystery. Maybe, just maybe, some others in the league see something that some here don't see.

[Spaceman Spiff]

No doubt in my mind there would be takers for him. I'm rooting for him, just somewhat frustrated. Last night showed progress, I just hope he keeps building.

[goldenster95]

No doubt in my mind there would be takers for him. I'm rooting for him, just somewhat frustrated. Last night showed progress, I just hope he keeps building.

Ah, and why would there be takers for him and why would there be that prevailing view of him if he indeed was as bad as some here seem to think he is?

[garg8050]

I agree. Carr hasn't had as much talent around him though, but whatever. He seems to get a free pass.

No disrespect to the 'Skins WR's (both past and present) but I'd take Andre Johnson over any of them. And Domanick Davis is probably one of the best young RB's in the league. So, in terms of skill positions, I think that Carr has had some weapons to work with.

[ntotoro]

And yet everybody out there says that PAtrick is the one under the microscope. Why is that?

Because this is a 'Skins board populated by 'Skins fans who could mostly not care less what Houston does... ? Just maybe.

Houston doesn't really have any other options at QB, either, or a Coach loading up on talent at QB.

[TIO]

• Four years in a legit NFL system.
  

You obviously weren't paying attention years 1 and 2. You think ramsey had it bad under spurrier?

[TK]

You obviously weren't paying attention years 1 and 2. You think ramsey had it bad under spurrier?

He was referring to David Carr of the Texans, not Ramsey.

[Tommy-the-Greek]

Gibbs loading up on Qb's could have just as much to do with his overall views of building a franchise as it does with any doubts he may have in Ramsey. I believe that Gibbs's learned a valuable lesson when we lost Joey T. It took us 2 full seasons to recover from that. If you evaluate the Qb's on our roster the last 5 seasons of Gibbs's first tenure with the team it becomes self evident. Gibbs's never wants to suffer thru a post Joey T. period ever again. One could also argue that at this stage of his career he can't afford to waste any time in building his team.

We have a backup in Brunnel who could come in if needed and guide us thru a season. Not many teams can say they have a backup Qb on par with or superior to Brunnel. Gibbs's having a backup plan if something goes wrong should be hailed by us fans as a solid insurance policy.

Drafting Campbell also tells us that Gibbs's is also thinking long term and has Brunnel's replacement in mind so we always have 2 solid Qb's on the roster. :applause: :applause: :applause: :2cents:

edited for 2 spelling mistakes