Seriously, What was the point of those last 5-6 games of the season last year?

[footballhenry]

Throughout the past couple weeks there has been alot of talk concerning benching Patrick Ramsey. Were in the preseason and while it is a forum to evaluate talent, I am just shocked how so many people (fans and nonfans) call for him to be benched after his performance at the end of last season. I mean it was billed as if he was fighting for his job in last years games, and he performed extremely well. Gibbs named him the starter for this season but even now I still hear alot of "Brunell should start". Ramsey peformed extremely well in MEANINGFUL games last season yet so many here want to hang him for peforming average in three WHO CARES games. :doh:

Regardless of how he plays in practice or preseason, the man shows up on gameday more often than not. I remember Spurrier being surprised at all the plays Ramsey made and even said that youd never think Ramsey could do that stuff by watching him in practice.

[TheREALJBird]

Throughout the past couple weeks there has been alot of talk concerning benching Patrick Ramsey. Were in the preseason and while it is a forum to evaluate talent, I am just shocked how so many people (fans and nonfans) call for him to be benched after his performance at the end of last season. I mean it was billed as if he was fighting for his job in last years games, and he performed extremely well. Gibbs named him the starter for this season but even now I still hear alot of "Brunell should start". Ramsey peformed extremely well in MEANINGFUL games last season yet so many here want to hang him for peforming average in three WHO CARES games. :doh:

Regardless of how he plays in practice or preseason, the man shows up on gameday more often than not. I remember Spurrier being surprised at all the plays Ramsey made and even said that youd never think Ramsey could do that stuff by watching him in practice.

yep

[SkinsNatsFan]

It has been amazing how many people have ignored the end of last season. As you said, that is much more of an indication of how he plays than what we could see in pre-season games. If these complaints were a continuation of people's feelings from the end of last year, they would be a lot more credible. But they're not. The complaints just plain weren't there at the end of last season when the Redskins were playing well against playoff teams with Ramsey at QB.

[Statch]

I agree completely. And who did he go up against in those last games? I mean he played Pittsburgh and Philly, just to name a few, both of which were Championship Game bound, one of which was Super Bowl bound. We came very, very close to winning those games!! You have to give it up for Ramsey at some point.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

That's exactly what I said on another thread...people keep saying "When Ramsey shows some consistency, when he throws for more TDs than interceptions, THEN I'll stop criticizing"...Well, he did exactly that over the last 5 games of last season...and THREE of those games he had a QB rating of over 100. He's already done what many here keep saying they're waiting to see him do before putting any optimism in him.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

I agree completely. And who did he go up against in those last games? I mean he played Pittsburgh and Philly, just to name a few, both of which were Championship Game bound, one of which was Super Bowl bound. We came very, very close to winning those games!! You have to give it up for Ramsey at some point.

Not to mention Minnesota...

[footballhenry]

It really boggles the mind, how some people can form certain anti-Ramsey opinions basing them on his preseason performances compared to his season ending performances last year.

[bubba9497]

I agree, it truly boggles the mind

[Hogskin1]

Throughout the past couple weeks there has been alot of talk concerning benching Patrick Ramsey. Were in the preseason and while it is a forum to evaluate talent, I am just shocked how so many people (fans and nonfans) call for him to be benched after his performance at the end of last season. I mean it was billed as if he was fighting for his job in last years games, and he performed extremely well. Gibbs named him the starter for this season but even now I still hear alot of "Brunell should start". Ramsey peformed extremely well in MEANINGFUL games last season yet so many here want to hang him for peforming average in three WHO CARES games. :doh:

Regardless of how he plays in practice or preseason, the man shows up on gameday more often than not. I remember Spurrier being surprised at all the plays Ramsey made and even said that youd never think Ramsey could do that stuff by watching him in practice.

I agree that Ramsey improved his performance last season over what he had done in the past. But to say he performed "extremely well" is much more than a strectch. He threw more interceptions than TD's. He had a woeful 74.8 QB rating (tied for #35 in the NFL). That would not garner a free ride into the starter's role on more than a couple NFL teams (with injured QB's). The best you could say was that he had performed significantly better than Brunell did last year, and that is not saying much. I hope he can turn it around this year, but I also understand the frustration that is coming out in MANY fans when they see him continuing to offset virtually every TD pass with an INT. His preseason performance is VERY similar to what he did last year. Many fans are looking for the necessary improvement to bring him to NFL caliber. With the fantastic defense we have on our team, all they need is a SMALL amount of offensive success, but it can not be an offense that continually makes very costly errors. If you listen closely to Joe Gibbs, that is exactly what HE is saying, also.

I hope Patrick can stop making 1-2 horrible decisions per game that result in turnovers. Gibbs' history AND is statements this year make it obvious that it is a requirement for him to retain the job throughout the season. Gibbs is being very patient right now, which is a good thing for the team.

[Ghost of]

I agree that Ramsey improved his performance last season over what he had done in the past. But to say he performed "extremely well" is much more than a strectch. He threw more interceptions than TD's. He had a woeful 74.8 QB rating (tied for #35 in the NFL). That would not garner a free ride into the starter's role on more than a couple NFL teams (with injured QB's).

.

over 80 rating as a starter

The "last 5-6 games" kind of denotes that. He also threw more TDs than INTs as a starter. I don't think footballhenry said Ramsey performed extremely well, including coming off the bench in the early part of the season, I think he was talking after Brunell got the hook.

[footballhenry]

I agree that Ramsey improved his performance last season over what he had done in the past. But to say he performed "extremely well" is much more than a strectch. He threw more interceptions than TD's. He had a woeful 74.8 QB rating (tied for #35 in the NFL). That would not garner a free ride into the starter's role on more than a couple NFL teams (with injured QB's). The best you could say was that he had performed significantly better than Brunell did last year, and that is not saying much. I hope he can turn it around this year, but I also understand the frustration that is coming out in MANY fans when they see him continuing to offset virtually every TD pass with an INT. His preseason performance is VERY similar to what he did last year. Many fans are looking for the necessary improvement to bring him to NFL caliber. With the fantastic defense we have on our team, all they need is a SMALL amount of offensive success, but it can not be an offense that continually makes very costly errors. If you listen closely to Joe Gibbs, that is exactly what HE is saying, also.

I hope Patrick can stop making 1-2 horrible decisions per game that result in turnovers. Gibbs' history AND is statements this year make it obvious that it is a requirement for him to retain the job throughout the season. Gibbs is being very patient right now, which is a good thing for the team.

Hence the last "5-6 games" of the season. That Giants game brought Ramseys 'stats' down alot. He performed extremely well as a starter last year, considering the circumstances even. He HAS made some very bad mistakes this preseason but that happens to all QB's at some point. I mean look at Ben Rothwhatever, hes had a horrendous preseason. Ramseys performances at the end of last year warrant him the starting role, at least at the beginning of this season. Furthermore its not like Ramseys goin out here and throwing 3 picks a game with horrible percentages. I mean the man is playing 'okay' and improving. Its all 'live-in-the-moment' reactions by fans. Through thick and thin Ive always said Ramsey will be fine, yet many here and abroad live by the last game. If Ramsey throws 3 td's everyone loves him and thinks hes gonna be great, the second he starts struggling everyone turns their back and boos him. Its sad, truly sad...

[gridironmike]

Well.................well.........

I do remember saying "Oh, no" when the ball left his hand for the INT/TD. You could see it coming. Pressure, backpeddling, throwing off the back foot to the outside. It looked dubious because it was. If he uses basic football common sense, his performances would be astronomical. I keep thinking about the INT in the home Philly game last year and the INT last week where he basically forgot that there was a pro football player defending his pass. Thrash's route may have been part of the problem last night, but it looked disatrous coming out of his hand. I hope he shapes up soon!

[Phat Hog]

As I have stated in the 1000s of threads rehashing this subject, my worry is his decision making. That is one area where I haven't seen improvement in the 4 years he's been here. Every systems he's been in, he's performed reasonably well - I have no problems with his physical toughness, ability, arm strength, mobility in the pocket...none of that. It's just that he will follow a spectacular play with a "WTF" play (or vice versa), and that has been one thing that's been consistent. I think he's a serviceable QB, and with a good OL and running game, he should hopefully take us far. I can't speak for everyone else, but I am counting on him to do well this season. But I don't think the 'it's only preseason' excuse is viable; as if he's going to throw a switch 1st quarter of the Chicago game and turn into an all-pro.

I'm hoping for a great season from Ramsey this year, but the logical side of me says he may continue to struggle - and we need to be prepared for that reality if it (God forbid) winds up that way.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

As I have stated in the 1000s of threads rehashing this subject, my worry is his decision making. That is one area where I haven't seen improvement in the 4 years he's been here. Every systems he's been in, he's performed reasonably well - I have no problems with his physical toughness, ability, arm strength, mobility in the pocket...none of that. It's just that he will follow a spectacular play with a "WTF" play (or vice versa), and that has been one thing that's been consistent. I think he's a serviceable QB, and with a good OL and running game, he should hopefully take us far. I can't speak for everyone else, but I am counting on him to do well this season. But I don't think the 'it's only preseason' excuse is viable; as if he's going to throw a switch 1st quarter of the Chicago game and turn into an all-pro.

I'm hoping for a great season from Ramsey this year, but the logical side of me says he may continue to struggle - and we need to be prepared for that reality if it (God forbid) winds up that way.

I don't think anyone really disagrees with you (although the "follows up a brilliant play with a boneheaded one" is starting to be come more of a cliche than an analysis)...but what gets me is that the Ramsey detractors on this site seem to ONLY use this preseason, last preseason, and the 1st Giants game to judge whether or not there's promising evidence that Ramsey can get the job done.

Someone says "I want to see Ramsey throw more TDs that interceptions before I stop criticizing". Well, last season as a starter he did just that, throwing 8 TDs and 6 INTs. Over the last five games the ratio is even better, with 7 TDs and only 4 INTs. So the people who say this should be feeling a bit better, right?...Wrong.

Someone else says "I want to see Ramsey be more consistent, like over a 4-5 game span, before I start giving him credit". Well, last season he did just that, ending the season with a five game performance of 7 TDs, 4 INTs, 68% completion rate, and three games with a QB rating of 100 or more. So the people who say this should be feeling a bit better about Ramsey, right?...Wrong.

It's as if those games just don't factor into their opinions...but one half of play coming off the bench against the Giants? Now THAT is what really matters... :doh:

[Hogskin1]

Hence the last "5-6 games" of the season. That Giants game brought Ramseys 'stats' down alot. He performed extremely well as a starter last year, considering the circumstances even. He HAS made some very bad mistakes this preseason but that happens to all QB's at some point. I mean look at Ben Rothwhatever, hes had a horrendous preseason. Ramseys performances at the end of last year warrant him the starting role, at least at the beginning of this season. Furthermore its not like Ramseys goin out here and throwing 3 picks a game with horrible percentages. I mean the man is playing 'okay' and improving. Its all 'live-in-the-moment' reactions by fans. Through thick and thin Ive always said Ramsey will be fine, yet many here and abroad live by the last game. If Ramsey throws 3 td's everyone loves him and thinks hes gonna be great, the second he starts struggling everyone turns their back and boos him. Its sad, truly sad...

C'mon guys, the fan blinders are really showing with all this hair-splitting. I believe he began starting with 7 games left, and the week before THAT he threw 37 passes - as high as his average in the games he "started". So what it amounts to is that you want to throw out is earlier 3-INT game. OK, fine. He still had a rating out of the top 20 QB's, just picking the games you want. And *IN* those games, the offense was very obviously scaled back for him to throw mainly dumpoffs and other short-range, high-percentage passes. Everyone agrees, we can not go through another season with that.

I will restate: I am pulling for Ramsey to get himself up to NFL-caliber play. But wearing blinders is not my style, and it will not improve his decision-making or his win-loss record. He simply is not there yet. He MUST stop concentrating exclusively on his primary receiver, and must stop making mental blunders. In short, he has EXCELLENT physical skills, but to be successful in this league, he MUST learn to think faster!

OH, yeah. And you could not ask for anyone with more mental toughness, or a better attitude!

[Califan007 The Constipated]

C'mon guys, the fan blinders are really showing with all this hair-splitting. I believe he began starting with 7 games left, and the week before THAT he threw 37 passes - as high as his average in the games he "started". So what it amounts to is that you want to throw out is earlier 3-INT game. OK, fine. He still had a rating out of the top 20 QB's, just picking the games you want. And *IN* those games, the offense was very obviously scaled back for him to throw mainly dumpoffs and other short-range, high-percentage passes. Everyone agrees, we can not go through another season with that.

I will restate: I am pulling for Ramsey to get himself up to NFL-caliber play. But wearing blinders is not my style, and it will not improve his decision-making or his win-loss record. He simply is not there yet. He MUST stop concentrating exclusively on his primary receiver, and must stop making mental blunders. In short, he has EXCELLENT physical skills, but to be successful in this league, he MUST learn to think faster!

It's not "hairsplitting"...it's common for there to be a "turning point" in many QB's careers when it seems like they may finally be "getting it"...the reason we tend to point to the last five games is numerous:

1) The 2nd Giants game was Ramsey's best, and he seemed to continue that improvement over the next four games.

2) His first two games as STARTER were against two teams that went 28-4, had two of the best five defenses in the league, and either went to the conference championship or the Super Bowl. Saying that Ramsey should have come out looking perfect under those circumstances is unrealistic...besides, it matters how you finish, not how you start.

3) His performance against the Bengals was off the bench, regardless of how many passes he attempted, and without the benefit of a week's work of practice as the starter. Don't underestimate how important having a week of practicing the gameplan against your next opponent is.

[goldenchild]

I think it's becoming clear that Ramsey will likely have a career as a decent QB, but the disappointment is that it's not looking like he'll ever be a star.

Ramsey-backers make rationalizations about his mistakes and what he's shown since we drafted him, but in the end we all have seen what he's done. The only part of the game that he hasn't excelled at is the mental aspect, and if that doesn't come in a QB's first couple years it's not a good sign.

Obviously Ramsey could still become a great NFL QB, but at this point I'd guess it would be unlikely. He's got all the physical skills to do so, and he's a good leader by all accounts, but he hasn't shown the ability to dissect opposing defenses the way a great QB does.

[Phat Hog]

I think it's becoming clear that Ramsey will likely have a career as a decent QB, but the disappointment is that it's not looking like he'll ever be a star.

Ramsey-backers make rationalizations about his mistakes and what he's shown since we drafted him, but in the end we all have seen what he's done. The only part of the game that he hasn't excelled at is the mental aspect, and if that doesn't come in a QB's first couple years it's not a good sign.

Obviously Ramsey could still become a great NFL QB, but at this point I'd guess it would be unlikely. He's got all the physical skills to do so, and he's a good leader by all accounts, but he hasn't shown the ability to dissect opposing defenses the way a great QB does.

I just want him to be good enough to take us deep into the playoffs. I think (baring injuries) he has a good enough surrounding cast to do that within the next couple of years.

:helmet:

[Streater101]

Yea, he really shredded the Niners, Giants and Minnesota. Those guys had great defenses . We all want Pat to succeed, but lets be realistic for a minute. He's our guy THIS year, but it is very obvious he isn't the guy for the future. Why else would a coach give up a future first to draft a rookie QB, when your current starter is only 26?

Patrick didn't play his way into a starters role last season, Mark Brunell played his way out of his.

[footballhenry]

Yea, he really shredded the Niners, Giants and Minnesota. Those guys had great defenses . We all want Pat to succeed, but lets be realistic for a minute. He's our guy THIS year, but it is very obvious he isn't the guy for the future. Why else would a coach give up a future first to draft a rookie QB, when your current starter is only 26?

Patrick didn't play his way into a starters role last season, Mark Brunell played his way out of his.

Actually thats usually how it works. The Starter plays his way OUT of the job, I mean seriously how would a BACKUP play his way into the starter role. (especially at the QB position) Think about it for a sec.

Oh, and because Ramsey did excellent against less than average defenses thats a negative? Are you serious? The man can't win...

[SkinsFTW]

Using the weak defenses excuse is BS. Ramsey played the 3 toughest defenses we faced last year also while Brunell had several sub 100 yard passing games against bad defenses.

Using your standard Philly would have benched Mc Nabb last year after horrible games against Carolina, Pitt, Wash, and Dallas.

Maybe thats why they went after Mc Mahon after all, lol. Mc Nabb sucks against good defenses.

[TheLongshot]

I think it's becoming clear that Ramsey will likely have a career as a decent QB, but the disappointment is that it's not looking like he'll ever be a star.

But, he doesn't need to be a "star". Theisman wasn't a star. Williams wasn't a star. Rypien wasn't a star. You don't need to be a star at the QB position to succeed in the NFL.

Certainly, Ramsey still has room to grow, and his performance has been a little rough, but he's still somewhat of a work in progress, and could very well meet his potential during the season.

Ramsey's biggest problem as I see it is that there are times when he absolutly feels that he needs to make a play. I believe having a good supporting cast is going to help him. It certainly helped him on Friday.

Jason

[arkowi]

That's exactly what I said on another thread...people keep saying "When Ramsey shows some consistency, when he throws for more TDs than interceptions, THEN I'll stop criticizing"...Well, he did exactly that over the last 5 games of last season...and THREE of those games he had a QB rating of over 100. He's already done what many here keep saying they're waiting to see him do before putting any optimism in him.

hahaha, yup. well put/

[QBkilla56]

"What have you done for me now" quote by Solomon Wilcots.

These fans don't look at the past they like at the present and only the present.

[Streater101]

Using the weak defenses excuse is BS. Ramsey played the 3 toughest defenses we faced last year also while Brunell had several sub 100 yard passing games against bad defenses.

Using your standard Philly would have benched Mc Nabb last year after horrible games against Carolina, Pitt, Wash, and Dallas.

Maybe thats why they went after Mc Mahon after all, lol. Mc Nabb sucks against good defenses.

No, if "we" were using my standard, then "we" would realize the difference between a consective pro bowl, league MVP candidate suffering a bad stretch vs an ill accomplished QB teetering between servicable and mediocre.

The fact that he had big games against bad defenses isn't a negative, but its not a shining example of Patricks greatness either. His success had more to do with the mediocrity of his opponents than his superiority as quarterback.