what would gibbs do if he had micheal vick?

[miranda]

Its a stalemate, because defenses cant read Vick.

That is just laughable, yeah, defenses can't read Vick. That's why he is lighting up the league right? I guess Tampa's defense consistently manhandling him is because he is so unreadable. Vick having a horrible passing game and being too afraid to run on Philly in the NFC Championship game was because defenses can't read him either, right? Right? Just look at these stats against some of the BEST teams in the league last season. Ha!

21-19 @San Fran 13-22 163yds 1td 1int 4sacks 31yds 6att 10yds rush 2 fumb

6-3 Arizona 10-20 115yds 0td 1int 6sacks 26yds 8att 68yds rush 2fumb

27-10 @Carolina 10-18 148yds 0td 0int 7att 35yds rush 1fumb

24-14 Tampa 8-16 147yds 1td 1int 5sacks 27yds 9att 73yds rush

34-31 Carolina 11-28 154yds 2td 2int 4sacks 29yds 8att 68yds 1td 2fumb

[Mikeoz]

The key to vick is that he moves the chains. His passing ability may be about average, but he's not the "horrible" QB people make him out to be. He makes some good throws, he's just very inconsistent. He had a solid game last night overall, of course it's only pre-season. People may think he's dumb and this and that, but until he develops more confidence in his arm (if ever) he will be very effective at rushing for yards. Because Vick is such a threat at running, the playaction is VERY effective against teams. This is a big reason IMO why Dunn gets so many yds. Having a double threat makes it harder to cover, and you have to cover the WR's/TE's, because he can make some decent throws.

Would I rather have Vick over Ramsey? I'd say yes. Vick definetly adds a whole different dimension to the offense. He can move the chains. The falcons will goto the playoffs again because of their ability to move the chains on offense and a solid defense. They will have serious trouble getting past teams like the eagles that have a very good D, and can cover vick and stop the run. He will have to use his arm more to spread out the D more. If you look back to the division game last year, vick certainly didn't have a horrible game. They were right there in it in the first half. His pick towards the end of the game he didn't see the safety, which made it an easy pick. Mistakes happen. He's definetly not the prototypical QB, but one way or another he can get the job done.

[Donita35]

I say he's too dumb because I constantly hear about him playing with dumbed down playbooks in the NFL and college, he can't read a defense to save his life, and isn't capable of making his reads. Don't even go there with the race crap. My favorite QB is McNabb and last I checked he is pretty tan also. That whole Ron Mexico situation didn't win him any points either in proving he isn't dumb. Also if he does not become a good QB it because he is too DUMB for the position. He obviously has all the physical skills and then some to play QB. I'm just not afraid to point out the obvious.

You are right in one aspect that he is pretty dumb. But in my experience with football players, no offense, they are all pretty dumb. Vick, however, should have above average smarts because he plays quarterback. But he doesn't. That is why he will always be considered as "the most exciting player in the game" versus the best quarterback in the game.

On the other hand, you have to admire what the kid does well. He makes plays and he wins games. End of story. The league is constantly envolving and I think that there is room for a running quarterback, i.e, Vick and a more traditional pocket passing QB like Manning. It makes the game more fun to watch. :gaintsuck :eaglesuck :dallasuck

[The Showstopper]

you now what miranda your right recievers do drop passes, but they dont drop them on a co9nsisten basis ala peerless price or brian finneran.... give vick the colts three reciveers and hed throw 30 td passes, oh and btw, if he had a half-ass line to protect him he might even have a chance to throw the ball, but he doesnt, he is constantly being hurried, and go ahead and put up his sats for those 5 games, but guess what, HE WINS, this is an arguement you cannot win, he moves chains, he scores pts, he keeps the other teams d on the field, so what if the bucs own them, it really doesnt matyter as long as they win, so think about that and dont give me any crap about him being dumb and not reading the D, cause fact is, he wins for the falcons, without him they are nothing

[miranda]

you now what miranda your right recievers do drop passes, but they dont drop them on a co9nsisten basis ala peerless price or brian finneran.... give vick the colts three reciveers and hed throw 30 td passes, oh and btw, if he had a half-ass line to protect him he might even have a chance to throw the ball, but he doesnt, he is constantly being hurried, and go ahead and put up his sats for those 5 games, but guess what, HE WINS, this is an arguement you cannot win, he moves chains, he scores pts, he keeps the other teams d on the field, so what if the bucs own them, it really doesnt matyter as long as they win, so think about that and dont give me any crap about him being dumb and not reading the D, cause fact is, he wins for the falcons, without him they are nothing

I can't win this argument? Funny it looks like I'm winning and people have jumped on here to agree with me, Showstopper. He moves chains and gets points? Are you seeing imaginary TDs? What are these points you speak of? How come you can't refute the point I made about Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer? He plays poorly even against horrible teams. They find ways to win because of their running game and defense. I will say it again, there are way too many games where he just flat out sucks.

He is so inconsistent that he is CONSISTENTLY inconsistent. I pointed out FIVE wins last season where he was horrible, not average, not below average, but HORRIBLE. Five wins, that is almost half of the team's regular season wins. I won't even mention stats like when they played KC and were humiliated.

How does he move chains if it is a miracle for him to break 200 yards passing? He doesn't run for big yards consistently either. I will say it again, if you have to run just to break even on your piss poor passing skills, you are not a great QB. Nothing but excuses. Oh, the receivers drop the ball, oh the line sucks, boo hoo. That line paved the way for one of the best rushing offenses in the NFL.

Everyone knows Daunte and Donovan can run the ball, but no one ever questions their passing skills. Vick is light years behind them in any quarterback comparison. Look at what Donovan has had to do in his career. The Eagles have had no running game for basically his entire career and only last year did they finally get a good receiver. Any more excuses you'd like to make for the Poster Child of ESPN Hype?

[SkinsNeverDie]

Gibbs would probably tie shackles to micheal vicks feet for a month, so he can learn the mechanics of being a complete quarterback.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Well seeing as Patrick Ramsey is named the starter, he'd have to hold a clipboard for awhile.

[The Showstopper]

34-17 vs st. louis 14-19, 179 yds 1td, 0 ints 12 carries 109 yds

21-20 vs san diego 12-21 218 yds 2td 1 int 9 carries 35 yds 1 td

41-28 @denver 18-24 252 yds 2td 0 int 12 carries 115 yds

14-10 vs giants 12-20 115 2tds 0 ints 15 carries 104 yds

24-21 vs N.O 16-29 212 yds 2 tds 1 int 10 carries 69 yds 1 td

34-31 vs carolina 11-28 154 yds 2 td 2 int 8 carries 68 yds 1 td

47-14 vs st. louis 12-16 82 yds 2 td 0 int 8 carries 119 yds

look at how many games he won for them, and lets not forget the packers game a few seasons back when they were the first team to beat them at lambeu in the playoffs

[ArmchairRedskin]

I dunno if this has been mentioned in this thread, but I'm sure I read a quote somewhere that Gibbs said he would love to have Vick as his QB. Let me see if I can track the quote down.

[miranda]

34-17 vs st. louis 14-19, 179 yds 1td, 0 ints 12 carries 109 yds

21-20 vs san diego 12-21 218 yds 2td 1 int 9 carries 35 yds 1 td

41-28 @denver 18-24 252 yds 2td 0 int 12 carries 115 yds

14-10 vs giants 12-20 115 2tds 0 ints 15 carries 104 yds

24-21 vs N.O 16-29 212 yds 2 tds 1 int 10 carries 69 yds 1 td

34-31 vs carolina 11-28 154 yds 2 td 2 int 8 carries 68 yds 1 td

47-14 vs st. louis 12-16 82 yds 2 td 0 int 8 carries 119 yds

look at how many games he won for them, and lets not forget the packers game a few seasons back when they were the first team to beat them at lambeu in the playoffs

No one is disputing that Vick can have a good game and sometimes even a great game. Denver for instance was an amazing game for him against a good team as well. The big problem is that he is supposedly held up to be this great qb and yet he sucks in half his WINS last year. If you are great and you play the most important position in the NFL, the least you could do is be at least somewhat consistent. Is it really too much to ask of Mike "walks on water" Vick to not suck in half the games he plays?

The fact that Atlanta was able to win those five regular season games I pointed out twice earlier in this thread proves that they are a complete team. Vick played horribly in those games and no amount of cliches like "he moves the chains" and " he puts imaginary points on the board" will cover up that awful smell.

[TheREALJBird]

No one is disputing that Vick can have a good game and sometimes even a great game. Denver for instance was an amazing game for him against a good team as well. The big problem is that he is supposedly held up to be this great qb and yet he sucks in half his WINS last year. If you are great and you play the most important position in the NFL, the least you could do is be at least somewhat consistent. Is it really too much to ask of Mike "walks on water" Vick to not suck in half the games he plays?

The fact that Atlanta was able to win those five regular season games I pointed out twice earlier in this thread proves that they are a complete team. Vick played horribly in those games and no amount of cliches like "he moves the chains" and " he puts imaginary points on the board" will cover up that awful smell.

That awful smell is your ass, because you are one. Vick is a playmaker, bottom line. This day and age in the NFL it isn't about staying in the pocket and checking each receiver and making a pass, it's about MAKING PLAYS, and Vick does that week in and week out. The NFL would not be what it is today if not for Vick, just accept it and quit being a douche

[miranda]

That awful smell is your ass, because you are one. Vick is a playmaker, bottom line. This day and age in the NFL it isn't about staying in the pocket and checking each receiver and making a pass, it's about MAKING PLAYS, and Vick does that week in and week out. The NFL would not be what it is today if not for Vick, just accept it and quit being a douche

Wow, nice job insulting me. In case you didn't notice, when people MAKE PLAYS it shows in the stat line if you are in a skill position. That's why guys like Ron Dayne don't have the stats that Edge or LT have. That's why guys like Brunell don't have stats like Manning. Those wins I mentioned, HE DIDN'T MAKE PLAYS. He sucked, plain and simple. It has nothing to do with me being against mobile passers either.

My favorite QB is McNabb and I think Daunte is an amazing QB as well. Steve Young and Randall Cunningham were also very mobile QBs and I think they were both amazing in their day. In fact, I hear one of them is a HOFer. It has nothing to do with THIS DAY AND AGE. I don't care if the year is 2055 instead of 2005, QBs are supposed to be able to pass well if they want to be heralded as a great QB.

I will agree with you on one point though. I am a douche. There is no arguing that, after I'm in your mother she always smells better.

[Warhead36]

Gibbs would find a way to utilize Vick.

Just some food for thought though, could you imagine Vick behind the Hogs throwing to the Posse? Joe Gibbs would have so many rings he'd have to place some on his toes.

[Leonard Washington]

I dunno if this has been mentioned in this thread, but I'm sure I read a quote somewhere that Gibbs said he would love to have Vick as his QB. Let me see if I can track the quote down.

i don't know about gibbs, but i'm 100% sure that spurrier said vick was the perfect qb for his offense.

[Mooka]

Miranda, I don't think anyone is arguing with you that Vick is a great passer. Personally I think his passing stats will get better but his career QB rating is a very average 76.9.

However, you can't argue how important he is to the Falcons. You can talk about the Falcons being a complete team in 2004 all you want but the bottom line is that they win with him and loose without him.

2002: 9-6-1

2003: 2-10 without Vick, 3-1 with Vick

2001: 11-5

Do you see how pathetic they were in 2003? Vick came back and they went 3-1.

Vick might not be a great or even good passing QB right now but he is certainly the most important player on the Falcons. I'll admit that thus far he isn't a great passing QB. So, even you can't deny how great a player he is.

Don't try and bring up Trent Dilfer either. If you look at Vick's career he has had 2 winning seasons outta 2. (where he started 15games) Dilfer on the other hand only had 1 real winning season where he started all 16 games. (1997 with the bucs) His other 2 winning seasons were in 1999(Bucs) where he only started 10 games and his superbowl season in 2000(Ravens) where he only started 11 games. The Raven's D broke the record the record for fewest points allowed as well.

[AJ_Skins]

The NFL would not be what it is today if not for Vick, just accept it and quit being a douche

Now that's a serious exaggeration. You can have all the media hype and marketing you want, but the league would hardly collapse if Vick wasn't in it.

[AJ_Skins]

So, even you can't deny how great a player he is.

Vick is a great athlete. I would not call him a great football player at all as of right now, much less a great QB.

[miranda]

Miranda, I don't think anyone is arguing with you that Vick is a great passer. Personally I think his passing stats will get better but his career QB rating is a very average 76.9.

However, you can't argue how important he is to the Falcons. You can talk about the Falcons being a complete team in 2004 all you want but the bottom line is that they win with him and loose without him.

2002: 9-6-1

2003: 2-10 without Vick, 3-1 with Vick

2001: 11-5

Do you see how pathetic they were in 2003? Vick came back and they went 3-1.

Vick might not be a great or even good passing QB right now but he is certainly the most important player on the Falcons. I'll admit that thus far he isn't a great passing QB. So, even you can't deny how great a player he is.

Don't try and bring up Trent Dilfer either. If you look at Vick's career he has had 2 winning seasons outta 2. (where he started 15games) Dilfer on the other hand only had 1 real winning season where he started all 16 games. (1997 with the bucs) His other 2 winning seasons were in 1999(Bucs) where he only started 10 games and his superbowl season in 2000(Ravens) where he only started 11 games. The Raven's D broke the record the record for fewest points allowed as well.

Mooka, I refuse to admit he is a great player. I'll admit that he is a great athlete. A great player implies that he is great at his position. He is not.

So when Dilfer and Brad Johnson win a Super Bowl it is because of their running and defense. When Atlanta wins games because of a good running game and solid defense, Vick gets credit. Gotcha, nothing inconsistent about that reasoning.

Of course Atlanta wins more games with Vick on the field. It isn't like they have great options behind him. That argument doesn't hold water. There are tons of quarterbacks that are better than Vick in the league but Vick is consistently hyped to be the best in the game. Some people even say he is better than Manning and Brady. I don't have a problem with Vick, I have a problem with his hype. I admit it isn't his fault that he gets hyped, so there isn't much he can do about it.

So many people here are acting as though the only variable with the Falcons is Vick playing or not. It is a team sport, they completely changed their defense from '03 to '04 and yet that gets no mention by anyone other than me. Is he a great athlete, of course, I'm also glad he's in the NFL. It lets me see his occasional fancy runs and it lets me laugh at all his sub-200 yard passing days which happens 12+ times a year. I'm also glad I'm stuck rooting for McNabb who will never match the greatness that is Vick in all his perfect wonder.

[SamSneed36]

Gibbs loves the playaction roll out, so what do you think?

[Mooka]

So when Dilfer and Brad Johnson win a Super Bowl it is because of their running and defense. When Atlanta wins games because of a good running game and solid defense, Vick gets credit. Gotcha, nothing inconsistent about that reasoning.

I made this point already. Dilfer is a career loser and that Super-bowl team had the best defense in NFL history. Trent's passing stats that year were worse then Vick's in 2004 and i don't think he had 900 rushing yards. Vick is a career winner. Without Vick not only did the Falcon's loose but they were pathetic.

In the 2003 season they were 2-10 and when Vick came back they finished the season 3-1.

Of course Atlanta wins more games with Vick on the field. It isn't like they have great options behind him. That argument doesn't hold water. There are tons of quarterbacks that are better than Vick in the league but Vick is consistently hyped to be the best in the game. Some people even say he is better than Manning and Brady. I don't have a problem with Vick, I have a problem with his hype. I admit it isn't his fault that he gets hyped, so there isn't much he can do about it.

Best in the game? I've never heard anybody ever say that. The hype I hear is "the most exciting player" or the most "dynamic QB" in the game. Not the best QB, thats rediculous.

So many people here are acting as though the only variable with the Falcons is Vick playing or not. It is a team sport, they completely changed their defense from '03 to '04 and yet that gets no mention by anyone other than me. Is he a great athlete, of course, I'm also glad he's in the NFL. It lets me see his occasional fancy runs and it lets me laugh at all his sub-200 yard passing days which happens 12+ times a year. I'm also glad I'm stuck rooting for McNabb who will never match the greatness that is Vick in all his perfect wonder.

Keep hating... It makes all of your points seem so valid.

[kroiz]

Of course Atlanta wins more games with Vick on the field. It isn't like they have great options behind him. That argument doesn't hold water. There are tons of quarterbacks that are better than Vick in the league but Vick is consistently hyped to be the best in the game. Some people even say he is better than Manning and Brady. I don't have a problem with Vick, I have a problem with his hype. I admit it isn't his fault that he gets hyped, so there isn't much he can do about it.

So many people here are acting as though the only variable with the Falcons is Vick playing or not. It is a team sport, they completely changed their defense from '03 to '04 and yet that gets no mention by anyone other than me. Is he a great athlete, of course, I'm also glad he's in the NFL. It lets me see his occasional fancy runs and it lets me laugh at all his sub-200 yard passing days which happens 12+ times a year. I'm also glad I'm stuck rooting for McNabb who will never match the greatness that is Vick in all his perfect wonder.

You haven't a clue. Put Brady or Manning on the Falcons and they win 7 games tops. You're the classic stat watcher. You don't watch the game. You don't see how many times Vick turns 3rd and 7s into first downs while escaping immediate pressure. You don't see that it's because of opposing defenses attention to Vick that the Falcons have a solid running game. You don't see how pitiful the Falcons Oline is at pass blocking. His whole team believes in him. Every time the Falcons win you will see quotes from opposing players stating how great of a player Vick is. He guides the Falcons to the playoffs in both seasons he has started and you want to see 300 yard passing stats or it doesn't qualify as a W to you. Grab a clue or just play fantasy football. That way you can cherish your stats all season long, I'll take the Ws.

[AJ_Skins]

CMP ATT YDS CMP% YPA LNG TD INT SACK RAT

Ramsey 465 836 5370 55.6 6.42 64 33 28 71 74.4

Vick 512 955 6619 53.6 6.93 74 36 26 109 76.9

It is weird how Vick gets treated like the greatest QB who ever played, while Ramsey gets treated like a chump, and as soon as he throws an INT the whole world gathers around to spit on him.

I guess that's just the world we live in.

[miranda]

You haven't a clue. Put Brady or Manning on the Falcons and they win 7 games tops. You're the classic stat watcher. You don't watch the game. You don't see how many times Vick turns 3rd and 7s into first downs while escaping immediate pressure. You don't see that it's because of opposing defenses attention to Vick that the Falcons have a solid running game. You don't see how pitiful the Falcons Oline is at pass blocking. His whole team believes in him. Every time the Falcons win you will see quotes from opposing players stating how great of a player Vick is. He guides the Falcons to the playoffs in both seasons he has started and you want to see 300 yard passing stats or it doesn't qualify as a W to you. Grab a clue or just play fantasy football. That way you can cherish your stats all season long, I'll take the Ws.

You claim I don't have a clue and then you say Vick is better than both Manning and Brady? Unless you are talking about Archie Manning and Wayne Brady then you are the one that is clueless. This is just proving my point when I say people claim he's the best QB in the NFL. One QB leads his team to 3 Super Bowl victories, the other one breaks NFL regular season passing records, yet both of them couldn't even lead Atlanta to winning records. I'm glad the Vick bandwagon doesn't let logic get in their way.

I've seen Payton play, and he is amazing to watch. I also watched Brady play in the Super Bowl and he played great under pressure. I watched Vick play against that same team two weeks prior and he looked like a deer in headlights after he got knocked around a few times. Philly's defense has absolutely no fear of Vick and they said so themselves during last year's playoffs.

Since all I do is STAT WATCH are you trying to claim that Vick played well these five wins? I will admit he was definitely a playmaker. He was responsible for 5 interceptions and 7 fumbles in only 5 games. I guess that's how he leads them to victory. So you've got these 5 wins where he was horrible and the 5 losses during the regular season. I guess all it takes is 6 good games to be considered the better than Brady and Manning these days. I can only imagine if Vick went and won 3 Super Bowls, people would probably say he could run a 4.2 40 on the ocean and toss 70 yard bombs across his body through a tire blindfolded at that point.

21-19 @San Fran 13-22 163yds 1td 1int 4sacks 31yds 6att 10yds rush 2 fumb

6-3 Arizona 10-20 115yds 0td 1int 6sacks 26yds 8att 68yds rush 2fumb

27-10 @Carolina 10-18 148yds 0td 0int 7att 35yds rush 1fumb

24-14 Tampa 8-16 147yds 1td 1int 5sacks 27yds 9att 73yds rush

34-31 Carolina 11-28 154yds 2td 2int 4sacks 29yds 8att 68yds 1td 2fumb