Skins24 Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Throw a couple of young QB's like Breese or Big Ben in the mix, and I'm not so impressed. You hand picked the stats you used, which means they're not worth all that much. lol If you can show where QBs like Brees and Ben are the norm and not the exception, then by all means show us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskin-one Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I always like comparing Ramsey's stats with the other young QBs in the league - it offsets my panic when I see him throw interceptions like the ones he threw against Cincy. I still think Ramsey is going to develop into a top notch QB. :wavetowel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
318 SKIN Posted August 22, 2005 Author Share Posted August 22, 2005 First of all, I just cant stand it when someone has the gull to say that a Hall Of Fame coach does'nt have guts enough to do something. :doh: Anyway, sure Brunell was brought in and he was a bust, but Gibbs realized that and named Ramsey the starter for the 05 season. Campbell was then brought in and Ramsey still remains the starter. Could it be possible that Campbell was brought in just in case Ramsey has a break out season and we are not able to re-sign him next season? I'm not sure Gibbs is ready to say Brunnell is a bust and I am certainly not convinced that he drafted Campbell as insurance against not resigning Ramsey after a breakout season. However, if thats how you rationalize his decisions, OK...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 lolIf you can show where QBs like Brees and Ben are the norm and not the exception, then by all means show us. According to many on this board, Ramsey is not the "norm". He is a stud. So if he is a stud, why not compare him to the other studs in the league that have had equal/less experience than him? Besides, I wasn't suggesting you solely compare him to those two, but I think throwing them into the mix along with the bottom feeders would help give a more realistic sense to this thread. Boeller sucks, and there's no guarantee that Carr or Harrington are going to amount to anything. So we should be hopeful that Ramsey is on par with some crappy QB's? Doesn't make sense to me, that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
318 SKIN Posted August 22, 2005 Author Share Posted August 22, 2005 lolIf you can show where QBs like Brees and Ben are the norm and not the exception, then by all means show us. Right - Can't augue the Big Ben issue. Go ahead and throw Brees in there if you like. I guess using the #1 and 3 pick in the 2002 draft and the top 2 QB's in the 2003 draft and 2 HOF QB's that had a difficult start in careers on teams that were rebulilding may not be a good place to start! WHATEVER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Harrington will be out of the league in 3 years... Carson Palmer is going to be a perennial all-pro within 2 years. Just a hunch of course. I'll have none of that logic stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project myu Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Interesting point, but unlikely. By shelling out the cash to sign a 1st round QB, you're pretty much guaranteeing that you won't be able to afford Ramsey after next season (not this season, after NEXT season). However, in the case that Ramsey breaks out this year, they could certainly trade Campbell away, and resign Ramsey. I hope the latter happens. Why don't they just cut Brunell and give his salary to Ramsey if Ramsey has that kind of miraculous season? That way, they can have both Ramsey and Campbell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boobiemiles Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I want Joe to stand behind Rams like he does Bruhell. That's all Rams needs is a boost of conficence. I think Joe is picking up on that. He knows which guys need a pat on the back and which need a kick in the butt. Pat needs a pat on the back. Then I think he'll let loose. Sometimes you need to tell a guy he's your man, to build his confidence and let his talents flourish. Joe needs to put his faith in Rams and state it without equivication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
318 SKIN Posted August 22, 2005 Author Share Posted August 22, 2005 Right - Can't augue the Big Ben issue. Go ahead and throw Brees in there if you like. I guess using the #1 and 3 pick in the 2002 draft and the top 2 QB's in the 2003 draft and 2 HOF QB's that had a difficult start in careers on teams that were rebulilding may not be a good place to start! WHATEVER I could not help myself Drew Brees Games/TD's/Int's/Rating 27 - 29 - 30 - 72 Not bad, but not Ramsey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Right - Can't augue the Big Ben issue. Go ahead and throw Brees in there if you like. I guess using the #1 and 3 pick in the 2002 draft and the top 2 QB's in the 2003 draft and 2 HOF QB's that had a difficult start in careers on teams that were rebulilding may not be a good place to start! WHATEVER Next time, read my posts. I stated the only 2 that mattered were the 2 HOF QB's. Read before you comment. As for where they were drafted...Who cares? After all, we all know 1st round QB's all pan out, right? :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I could not help myselfDrew Brees Games/TD's/Int's/Rating 27 - 29 - 30 - 72 Not bad, but not Ramsey! See, it's not that hard. However, the actual progression of play would factor in here, but that's not why this thread was started. If only games could be won with stats and names on the roster I'm curious what it would look like if we compared just last season among the QB's. I'm too lazy, but if you are so inclined 318 SKIN, would you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexxskins Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 I'm not sure Gibbs is ready to say Brunnell is a bust and I am certainly not convinced that he drafted Campbell as insurance against not resigning Ramsey after a breakout season. However, if thats how you rationalize his decisions, OK......I would also not be ready to say that Brunell is a bust. I was saying that he was a bust last season. For whatever reason, injury, confidence or hemorhoids...Brunell was not able to get the job done. Also, I am not trying to rationalize anyones dicision. I am simply giving different options as to why he may have drafted Campbell... and I certainly was not trying to convince you of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 As for comparing him to KB, Carr, and company...What is the point? None of them are playing well. Throw a couple of young QB's like Breese or Big Ben in the mix, and I'm not so impressed. You hand picked the stats you used, which means they're not worth all that much. For the record: Brees first three seasons: Games 28 540/909 59% completion rate 29 TDS 31 INTs 10-18 record 1st season QB rating: 94.8 (only one game) 2nd season QB rating: 76.9 3rd season QB rating: 67.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
318 SKIN Posted August 22, 2005 Author Share Posted August 22, 2005 Next time, read my posts. I stated the only 2 that mattered were the 2 HOF QB's. Read before you comment. As for where they were drafted...Who cares? After all, we all know 1st round QB's all pan out, right? :doh: Your coment on hand picking my stats was kinda frustrating - I didn't really hand pick them. I choose them based on how other QB's in recent drafts have developed. Brees Games/TD's/Int's/Rating 27 - 29 - 30 - 71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 See, it's not that hard. However, the actual progression of play would factor in here, but that's not why this thread was started. If only games could be won with stats and names on the roster I'm curious what it would look like if we compared just last season among the QB's. I'm too lazy, but if you are so inclined 318 SKIN, would you? Can't make equivalent comparisons in that manner...you have to compare development and improvement at similar stages of a QBs' career. Last year was Brees' 4th in the NFL, as well as his 3rd under the same coach and system. Last year was Ramsey's 3rd in the NFL, as well as his 1st under the same coach and system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
playmaker21 Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Guys just wait untill the regular season because when ramsey lights it up, the haters will jump on the bandwagon :point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
318 SKIN Posted August 22, 2005 Author Share Posted August 22, 2005 For the record:Brees first three seasons: Games 28 540/909 59% completion rate 29 TDS 31 INTs 10-18 record 1st season QB rating: 94.8 (only one game) 2nd season QB rating: 76.9 3rd season QB rating: 67.5 Thanks Califan! Here you go Herrmag... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flave1969 Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 The problem with your comparison to all the current NFL QB's is that they also have done Jack in this league. There is a good chance that they will all turn out to be busts in this league. I rate Carson Palmer the most but I see nothing in any of them that says 10 years down the line they will rank alongside the greats of the game. The comparison to Aikman is an interesting one because his career stats are very steady but not the finest you will see. If Patrick has a career like Aikman's we would need a team as strong to win Superbowls. Aikman truly benefitted from playing on a strong all around team. For instance Emmitt Smith backed Aikman up with 145 Rushing TD's on the ground in their time together. Aikman only averaged two more TD's than Int's per season. Our very own Mark Brunell has better overall career stats gained on far less talented teams than Aikman played on. As for the comparison to Elway well he certainly did have problems early in his career and we can hope for an Elway like career. It is interesting to point out that Denver never won it all until Terrell Davis was in the team. The key may be a strong running game and steady mistake free performance from Patrick. If Patrick continues to make his stupid errors we will not win, plain and simple. I have seen nothing that tells me he will stop doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
318 SKIN Posted August 22, 2005 Author Share Posted August 22, 2005 I used the comparison of Carr, Boller, Harrington, Palmer because I thought those were logical comparisons. I do also want to say I think that Palmer and Carr will be great QB's in the future, maybe even Harrington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Guys just wait untill the regular season because when ramsey lights it up, the haters will jump on the bandwagon :point2sky Who's hating??? I'm trying to be objective here. Califan, yes, you do raise some good questions. But how long are we going to allow those excuses to exist? If Ramsey doesn't have a breakout year like we all hope he does, are we going to continue these same excuses? Before preseason, everyone said this is his make or break year. However, in the UNFORTUNATE situation that he does not break out, will these excuses still be valid going into next year? Also, you all forgot to mention that Breese has the best running back in the league in his backfield, which takes a lot of pressure off the receivers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 The problem with your comparison to all the current NFL QB's is that they also have done Jack in this league. That's the point of the thread, tho...to remind people that it's the norm to "not do jack" in the league during a QBs first 2-3 years of development. Considering all the obstacles Ramsey's had in his development as well, why should we be expecting him to be the exception to the rule...because we're impatient? If Patrick continues to make his stupid errors we will not win, plain and simple. I have seen nothing that tells me he will stop doing so. There probably was very little being seen in Aikman's early years, and even Peyton Manning's early years, to tell anyone that either would stop making interceptions...but what people focused on was the positives both DID show along with those mistakes. That's what pointed to a promising career in the NFL, not the absence of mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 According to many on this board, Ramsey is not the "norm". He is a stud. So if he is a stud, why not compare him to the other studs in the league that have had equal/less experience than him? Funny how I can't find that many "stud" posts from people on this board. Most of the pro Ramsey posts I find are along the lines of he can be a stud if given the time and chance to grow into one. Two things he has yet to recieve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
318 SKIN Posted August 22, 2005 Author Share Posted August 22, 2005 The problem with your comparison to all the current NFL QB's is that they also have done Jack in this league. There is a good chance that they will all turn out to be busts in this league. I rate Carson Palmer the most but I see nothing in any of them that says 10 years down the line they will rank alongside the greats of the game. The comparison to Aikman is an interesting one because his career stats are very steady but not the finest you will see. If Patrick has a career like Aikman's we would need a team as strong to win Superbowls. Aikman truly benefitted from playing on a strong all around team. For instance Emmitt Smith backed Aikman up with 145 Rushing TD's on the ground in their time together. Aikman only averaged two more TD's than Int's per season. Our very own Mark Brunell has better overall career stats gained on far less talented teams than Aikman played on. As for the comparison to Elway well he certainly did have problems early in his career and we can hope for an Elway like career. It is interesting to point out that Denver never won it all until Terrell Davis was in the team. The key may be a strong running game and steady mistake free performance from Patrick. If Patrick continues to make his stupid errors we will not win, plain and simple. I have seen nothing that tells me he will stop doing so.[/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 Who's hating??? I'm trying to be objective here.Califan, yes, you do raise some good questions. But how long are we going to allow those excuses to exist? If Ramsey doesn't have a breakout year like we all hope he does, are we going to continue these same excuses? Before preseason, everyone said this is his make or break year. However, in the UNFORTUNATE situation that he does not break out, will these excuses still be valid going into next year? Also, you all forgot to mention that Breese has the best running back in the league in his backfield, which takes a lot of pressure off the receivers. Why are you labeling them as "excuses"??...In general, excuses are weak rationalizations people use for their behavior. I tend to look at them as "explainations", as in explaining why we "haven't seen jack" from our third year QB who's had tremendous inconsistency in his starting status as well as in his coaching, offensive schemes, receivers and running backs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted August 22, 2005 Share Posted August 22, 2005 people believe what they want, and get upset when something is brought up that dispells their beliefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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