poor mccants

[bulldog]

You don't make roster space for players you feel may help other teams if you release him. You make roster space for players you believe will help YOU win

Again, from the first Gibbs go around in the 1980's, we saw a number of guys with potential get released or traded because they didn't buy into what Joe was selling, were inconsistent or held the team up for outrageous contracts.

Right now we are talking about a guy that is running at #5 right along with a player, Kevin Dyson, that has missed most of the past THREE years in the NFL.

McCants is nowhere near seeing the field with Patten, Moss, Thrash, and even Jacobs ahead of him. Not to mention Antonio Brown who seems to be moving up the depth chart.

[Tommy-the-Greek]

Why not? Seay and Walton used to do it all the time in the Smurfs hay day.

The corners and safeties were alot shorter and smaller back then. The average cornerback and safety are probably 1-3inches taller and 10-25lbs heavier today.

Neo, I am not singling you out here this is just a pet peeve of mine right now.

We need taller / bigger targets running routes in the red zone. Our Speedy recievers can really stretch the field between the 20's, but they all can't be on the field at the same time in the redzone.

D-Mac and Cooley can not only help our passing game in the redzone, but they can be a huge advantage blocking on running plays. One of the things I am going to focus on during the Steeler game is how our WR's are doing blocking on running plays. I just feel they may be a liability on running plays and we can't telegraph our playcalling by switching them out when we do run.

Of course Gibbs may be intentionally keeping D-Mac and Cooley off the field or just not throwing to them in the redzone. Why give other teams film to study until after the season starts.

[Skinsfan1311]

Mccants didn't have stitches when he was doggin' it at training camp...I admit, I only went one day..but he looked like he was just going through the motions......I firmly believe that his poor practice habits are carrying over to the games.....

[ZoEd]

The only difference between him and Michael Westbrook is he wasn't drafted as high. I'm sick and tired of hearing about this guys potential, then week after week he stinks up the place. His rare glimpses of excellence are few and far between and he seems to have a glass everything as much as he's injured.

[O.S.F]

It's too bad cause Sony seems to talk highly of him as a playmaker. I think he got the same attitude as Gartner and Coles. Look where those two are now... I think he will be gone if Joe can find someone to complement Cooley in the red zone.

[Tarhog]

I saw McCants hand in the locker room after the game. He showed it to themurf and I - he had had the stitches removed before the game, but you could see where a deep cut had been - in fact, the edges weren't fully 'approximated' - you could see a gap where the tissue was pulling apart. It was on the inside of the hand and he talked about how the cut made it tough for him to control his thumb and grasp the ball tightly when making catches. He wasn't making excuses, just stating it as a fact.

I like McCants. He seemed like a good-natured decent guy, granted we only spoke with him for 5 minutes or so (http://extremeskins.com/test/DMac.WMA), but I came away feeling better about him than I had previously. And honestly, while Dyson may be a 'veteran leader', I haven't seen anything from him that dazzled me to this point. I think McCants still has enough potential to warrant a final season to see if he can take the next step. He's always seemed to have a nose for the end-zone, something our WR's have sorely lacked in general. I'd hate to see him not be a part of the 2005 Redskins. And until Jacobs can show he can stay healthy enough to have an impact on the field, we need McCants, in my humble opinion.

[ZoEd]

I want this guy to suceed more than anything but it's starting to get old waiting for this guy to finally make an impact. We really need him to play big this year, especially with our little guys spreading the field.

[hands11]

Somebody said something about McCants having stitches in his hand....maybe that's why he dropped passes?

How did Dyson play?

It was high and away unlike Ramseys throw. It was a, either you get it or no one does. It wasnt really a catchable ball. Probably the only one like that Brunell throw.

And yes, he cut his hand in game one and the throws to him he was blanketed because Ramsey watched him the whole way.

I dont think he has gotten a good break yet. I dont put this on him at all. I think he will do something next game.

[flexxskins]

I saw McCants hand in the locker room after the game. He showed it to themurf and I - he had had the stitches removed before the game, but you could see where a deep cut had been - in fact, the edges weren't fully 'approximated' - you could see a gap where the tissue was pulling apart. It was on the inside of the hand and he talked about how the cut made it tough for him to control his thumb and grasp the ball tightly when making catches. He wasn't making excuses, just stating it as a fact.

I like McCants. He seemed like a good-natured decent guy, granted we only spoke with him for 5 minutes or so (http://extremeskins.com/test/DMac.WMA), but I came away feeling better about him than I had previously. And honestly, while Dyson may be a 'veteran leader', I haven't seen anything from him that dazzled me to this point. I think McCants still has enough potential to warrant a final season to see if he can take the next step. He's always seemed to have a nose for the end-zone, something our WR's have sorely lacked in general. I'd hate to see him not be a part of the 2005 Redskins. And until Jacobs can show he can stay healthy enough to have an impact on the field, we need McCants, in my humble opinion.

I have always respected your opinion Tarhog so I am glad that you now have a better feeling about McCants. Because truth be told, I really want McCants to succeed with our team. But if I may pick your brain for another opinion? Did you at anytime pick up on a sense of urgency/excitment from him about trying to make the team? I ask this question only because McCants can sometimes come across as a player who is very bored with his job.

[hands11]

You don't make roster space for players you feel may help other teams if you release him. You make roster space for players you believe will help YOU win

Again, from the first Gibbs go around in the 1980's, we saw a number of guys with potential get released or traded because they didn't buy into what Joe was selling, were inconsistent or held the team up for outrageous contracts.

Right now we are talking about a guy that is running at #5 right along with a player, Kevin Dyson, that has missed most of the past THREE years in the NFL.

McCants is nowhere near seeing the field with Patten, Moss, Thrash, and even Jacobs ahead of him. Not to mention Antonio Brown who seems to be moving up the depth chart.

REDZONE. One of these 2 bigs will make the team.

[hands11]

I want this guy to suceed more than anything but it's starting to get old waiting for this guy to finally make an impact. We really need him to play big this year, especially with our little guys spreading the field.

Yeah, the same thing we all said about Betts 2 years ago.

[ZoEd]

We sure do spend a lot of time waiting for guys to play up to their potential don't we? For example, Barrow, Morton, McCants, Betts, Jacobs, Ramsey, Dockery, Taylor, and so on and so on. Some of them have definitely shown greatness but either on the field or off they turn right around and disappoint. Some never even play a single down.

[bulldog]

you have to separate out your expectations for the list of players you named because they don't all fall into the same pot, so to speak.

Barrow got injured which was not his fault and this prevented him from coming back to be what he was in 2003 for the Giants, one of the best middle backers in the NFC. There is nothing on the surface of this acquisition made at the time that looked bad for the Skins. Barrow had not been seriously injured in his career, he knew Gregg Williams' defense and the team had no established man in the middle.

The Redskins flat out overpaid Chad Morton. He was overhyped coming in here. He and the team made rumblings of him being able to contribute on offense as well, but that was put to rest in one quarter against the Cowboys where Morton was unable to hold up physically. Quite simply, paying Morton a $5 million bonus at a position where most teams find players as middle round picks or undrafted free agents was a waste of resources. Watch Antonio Brown (undrafted free agent) outperform what Morton did here.

Some of the other players are young and you have to expect a learning curve. You mention Sean Taylor and Derrick Dockery. Taylor at 21 was the youngest player drafted in the first round in 2004. His immatury showed during the season and contributed to his offseason problems. But his play on the field improved immeasurably during the course of the season and he contributed as much as any rookie defensive back I have seen in a Redskins uniform in some time

Dockery is making good progress. He was drafted in 2003 and played tackle in college. After 2 years people seemed ready to jettison the guy because he had not developed into Russ Grimm overnight :laugh:

Dockery is just learning how to play with the kind of technique and leverage he needs to be successful. That was brought out in the article on Dockery in the media last week. Bugel wouldn't be spending this much time working with Dockery if he didn't think the payoff was significant. Dockery's progress in camp and in the preseason in 2005 has by all accounts been measurable. So patience there. Remember that 20 year player Ray Brown was with the Skins for THREE years before he got the chance to start for the team

Jacobs, also a 2003 draftee, missed his entire rookie season with a serious injury that had Taylor in the hospital. This wasn't a guy with a twisted knee that was dogging it. He was flat on his back for several weeks. In 2004, Jacobs was asked to play special teams by Gibbs' Staff and by all accounts a guy that was a high #2 pick performed well on ST, blocking a punt and showing some toughness. Gibbs likes Jacobs, he said as much in the offseason, and believes Jacobs will be a productive receiver in the NFL. Once he recovers from this toe sprain, I think he will be a contributor in 2005. Perhaps even a starter by the end of the year.

[RabidFan]

He sliced his hand open on the laces of a football....yeah he was very slow on that one play near the goal line and didn't go 100% but before that he took a rifled ball to that hand and was cringing in pain....he should have gone to the sidelines cause his defender didn't really bother with him on the next play seeing him ailing so bad. But i'm sure he knows he's fighting for a roster spot so stayed in.

[RabidFan]

Dockery also played on the Right side throughout college, changing sides sometimes doesn't come easily to some but he is making strides.

[ZoEd]

you have to separate out your expectations for the list of players you named because they don't all fall into the same pot, so to speak.

Barrow got injured which was not his fault and this prevented him from coming back to be what he was in 2003 for the Giants, one of the best middle backers in the NFC. There is nothing on the surface of this acquisition made at the time that looked bad for the Skins. Barrow had not been seriously injured in his career, he knew Gregg Williams' defense and the team had no established man in the middle.

The Redskins flat out overpaid Chad Morton. He was overhyped coming in here. He and the team made rumblings of him being able to contribute on offense as well, but that was put to rest in one quarter against the Cowboys where Morton was unable to hold up physically. Quite simply, paying Morton a $5 million bonus at a position where most teams find players as middle round picks or undrafted free agents was a waste of resources. Watch Antonio Brown (undrafted free agent) outperform what Morton did here.

Some of the other players are young and you have to expect a learning curve. You mention Sean Taylor and Derrick Dockery. Taylor at 21 was the youngest player drafted in the first round in 2004. His immatury showed during the season and contributed to his offseason problems. But his play on the field improved immeasurably during the course of the season and he contributed as much as any rookie defensive back I have seen in a Redskins uniform in some time

Dockery is making good progress. He was drafted in 2003 and played tackle in college. After 2 years people seemed ready to jettison the guy because he had not developed into Russ Grimm overnight :laugh:

Dockery is just learning how to play with the kind of technique and leverage he needs to be successful. That was brought out in the article on Dockery in the media last week. Bugel wouldn't be spending this much time working with Dockery if he didn't think the payoff was significant. Dockery's progress in camp and in the preseason in 2005 has by all accounts been measurable. So patience there. Remember that 20 year player Ray Brown was with the Skins for THREE years before he got the chance to start for the team

Jacobs, also a 2003 draftee, missed his entire rookie season with a serious injury that had Taylor in the hospital. This wasn't a guy with a twisted knee that was dogging it. He was flat on his back for several weeks. In 2004, Jacobs was asked to play special teams by Gibbs' Staff and by all accounts a guy that was a high #2 pick performed well on ST, blocking a punt and showing some toughness. Gibbs likes Jacobs, he said as much in the offseason, and believes Jacobs will be a productive receiver in the NFL. Once he recovers from this toe sprain, I think he will be a contributor in 2005. Perhaps even a starter by the end of the year.

Your driving home my point. We still have to wait no matter what the situation is. Taylor is a beast but, Dockery "Could" be great but, there are way too many buts. Why is it all these other teams get the breaks? When will we finally get our break? Couple of seasons ago McNabb got hurt, seasons over. Or so we thought their backup played great, they got a break. Hopefully sooner than later we'll have our break and take it to the next level.

[bulldog]

well, RABIDFAN, maybe if McCants had shown this much urgency and effort in 2004 he would have already convinced Joe Gibbs to put him on the field on game day?

right now it is clear with Jacobs out that Thrash is the #3 receiver. He and Antonio Brown are going to make the team on ST alone.

that leaves McCants fighting for the last roster spot at WR. Even if the club keeps him the #5 receiver is not going to see much action.

Gibbs loves his veterans, especially character veterans. If Dyson can hold up and show something over the next 2 weeks, the Skins will probably keep him over McCants.

It IS a close call as the team will suffer a bit of a cap hit from letting McCants go so early into his deal.

Of course there is always the possibility the Skins will go out and acquire a #5 receiver from another team after the final round of cuts, a younger guy that is a ST candidate and who may have better speed than DMAC.

[Tarhog]

I have always respected your opinion Tarhog so I am glad that you now have a better feeling about McCants. Because truth be told, I really want McCants to succeed with our team. But if I may pick your brain for another opinion? Did you at anytime pick up on a sense of urgency/excitment from him about trying to make the team? I ask this question only because McCants can sometimes come across as a player who is very bored with his job.

His own 'status' with the team didn't really come up. I thought it was interesting he was one of the last guys in the locker room. I'd tend to think someone who was 'disengaged' would be the first one out, not the last. He seemed very excited about the potential the offense has going into this season. I really got the feeling that he's just a chilled-out cat. Didn't sense an ounce of 'prima donna' in him. Like I said, I've never been a huge fan because of some of the comments made about him...but to my surprise, I found myself liking the guy. If he's on the way out, he certainly didn't act like that was something he saw coming, or wanted to have happen.

[bulldog]

With the problems the Skins have had with general health (Coles) and inconsistent performances (Gardner) the past couple of years, the fact McCants has not moved forward as an alternative to this point makes me question whether he has a role on this team now that the talent and depth at WR has been upgraded.

I just don't think you can be the #4 or #5 receiver on a team as McCants was last year and admit to being such an average at best practice player, and hope to get on the field under Joe Gibbs.

Once you have made a name for yourself, maybe you can pull going soft at camp or the offseason OTAs, but for a guy without an established rep the coaches want to see a 110% effort guy out there busting a hump.

[Ghost of]

His own 'status' with the team didn't really come up. I thought it was interesting he was one of the last guys in the locker room. I'd tend to think someone who was 'disengaged' would be the first one out, not the last. He seemed very excited about the potential the offense has going into this season. I really got the feeling that he's just a chilled-out cat. Didn't sense an ounce of 'prima donna' in him. Like I said, I've never been a huge fan because of some of the comments made about him...but to my surprise, I found myself liking the guy. If he's on the way out, he certainly didn't act like that was something he saw coming, or wanted to have happen.

In a way, Darnerian reminds me of myself. I don't hate my current job and even though I don't love it how I'd LOVE football, I don't get too up or down about things. The one lady from regional office said in response to something I mentioned, "I love Nick, he's always so calm." For some people, this comes across as negativity or passivity. It's not. It's not the Redskins or Wolverines or a great movie or sex. I'm not going to get all amped up for a job. Or get super enthusiastic about one day of many.

[flexxskins]

In a way, Darnerian reminds me of myself. I don't hate my current job and even though I don't love it how I'd LOVE football, I don't get too up or down about things. The one lady from regional office said in response to something I mentioned, "I love Nick, he's always so calm." For some people, this comes across as negativity or passivity. It's not. It's not the Redskins or Wolverines or a great movie or sex. I'm not going to get all amped up for a job. Or get super enthusiastic about one day of many.

I can definately relate. Although I know that I am good at my job, it is just not the type of job that one would get real excited about. But this is exactly my point about McCants. He is a Washington Redskin...he has a dream job and should be excited about having it. If he is a layed back sort of cat well, thats cool. But, with all of the other talent that the team has at his position, maybe layed back isn't the best disposition in the world to have right now.

[nneece]

I think Thrash looks first team.

[redman]

Why does this scare so many posters here, like the idea of a ex-Redskin playing on the opposing team really scares you.

If his work ethic sucks here what makes you think he'll turn it up if he goes somewhere else?

McCants has already been quoted multiple times as saying he doesn't practice well(motivation). Add to that a hand injury and he doesn't sound like much of a receiver.

No kidding. It's not like Kenard Lang, James Thrash or Brian Mitchell really ate us up when we played against them. Only Trotter bothers me, but he was clearly not happy here.

[Leonard Washington]

sometimes i have to wonder what gibbs is thinking when it comes to talent usage....

mccants...a guy who caught as many touchdowns as mccants did in 2003, can't buy any playing time in the pathetic offense we had last season. the same guy gibbs compared to art monk. yet rod gardner is the starter for the entire season. a guy that i believe was BENCHED by spurrier in 2002. so aparently we need mccants to be a special teams beast b4 he has a chance to score TDs? :confused:

taylor jacobs...a high round pick who's been injured the previous season but gets more snaps on special teams than wideout? yet another guy gibbs speaks highly of. :confused:

thrash...an extremely solid guy who's hardly spectacular and spends more time on the field than any of the above guys...probably combined. how come he's not offered a starting job? patten is an upgrade talent wise but :confused:

cartwright...in 2003 he was among the league leaders in short yardage conversions yet he gets 2, TWO! touches the entire season. spend the entire season playing special teams instead of getting first downs and touchdowns. :confused:

joe bugel...great position coach but wtf is up with him badgering every unit except the one he coaches? maybe gibbs should tell him to STFU (sans profanity) sometimes.

[kingchris626]

Isn't Mccants a pretty big dude?