newskinsowner Posted July 15, 2005 Author Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by Monkart If Dilfer was :pooh: Then at least :pooh: is enough to 1) make it to the Super Bowl and 2) Not lose the Super Bowl, so I guess we really got the :crap: when we went with the limburger cheese. I dont think you believe for one second that Dilfer actually guided the Ratbirds to the super bowl do you? He was not a factor at all his job requirements were to hand the ball off and let the defense win the game. If he wasnt poo then how in the world do you get released from the team that offseason after "winning the superbowl" and you were the starting qb?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by justme Refresh my memory...what year was that?? Of that miserable duo I'd have to pick Big Daddy as the only one that really made a contribution. At least he didn't get blown off the line of scrimmage. I'm with you here. I also liked something about Big Daddy and HATED everything about Dana. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Here's an excellent analysis done by Inmate about a year ago on Casserly: Charley Casserly was the Redskins GM from May, 1989 (after the draft) through the 1999 draft. IMHO he never had a really good draft. The best he did was his last draft in 1999, but only in the 1st and 2nd rounds. He blew THREE TOP 5 picks in Desmond Howard (4th), Heath Shuller (3rd) and Michael Westbrook (4th), although there were some unconfirmed reports that Joe Gibbs and Norv Turner insisted on these three picks. If that's the case then he is guilty of only being a "yes" man GM. Even if this was true, he blew many other 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round draft picks during the decade. No team can remain competitive blowing this many high draft picks. His best individual draft pick was probably Stephen Davis in the 4th round of the 1998 draft who later turned out to be an outstanding running back. TRADES: ... Casserly traded a 1st round pick in 1998 (17th) and a 3rd round pick (1999) for DT Dan Wilkinson. Too bad, because the Skins could have drafted Randy Moss who was drafted with the 21st pick of the 1st round. IMHO we overpaid in picks and money for Big Daddy, who was no more than an average DT with us. Casserly traded a 1st and 2nd round pick (1999) and 3rd round pick (2000) for 31 year-old QB Brad Johnson, and although Johnson took us to the playoffs that year, Johnson departed via free agency after just two seasons. ... If the Skins had kept just their #1 pick they could have drafted QB Daunte Culpepper instead. Casserly also traded a #1 pick to New Orleans and Mike Ditka and acquired all their 1999 draft picks, plus a #1 and #3 pick in 2000 so Ditka could draft RB Ricky Williams. But Casserly then quandered most of these picks on subsequent trades by moving up and down in the draft, and we wound up with little to show for all these extra draft picks. With respect to the Ricky Williams trade, I don't give Casserly too much credit for this trade because it was Ditka's idea. Ditka talked first to every team ahead of the Redskins in the draft -- and they all refused to make the trade. So Ditka was the moron in this trade, and it wasn't any great cleverness on Casserly's part. What upset me about that trade though, is what Ditka said months afterward. He said that he offered the teams ahead of the Redskins THREE #1 picks over succeeding years for the chance to draft Ricky Williams, but Casserly took much less in trade and was satisfied with two #1 picks. Casserly had a history of settling for less. I guess he's not a very good poker player. After Sean Gilbert refused to play for the Redskins and he was franchise tagged, Casserly offered to trade him to Carolina for only a #1 pick. Carolina declined, however, saying they wanted to keep their #1 pick that year in the draft and signed Gilbert anyway. Consequently, we lucked out and wound up with TWO #1 picks from Carolina for Gilbert under the NFL rules, but it was no thanks to Charley Casserly who had been willing to settle for less. I must give credit where some credit is due, however, and that was the year 1991 when he traded for DT’s Eric Williams and Tim Johnson and signed Plan B middle linebacker Matt Millen. These moves solidified a Redskin weakness against the run at the time and helped the team win the Super Bowl. FREE AGENT SIGNINGS: Some older Redskin press guides give Casserly credit for discovering and bringing street free agent C Jeff Bostic and T Joe Jacoby to camp. Both of whom became future all pros and the centerpiece of the Hogs. However, this was in 1980 when Casserly was a scout and not the GM. More recently, Casserly gave away about half the gold in Fort Knox to sign Dana Stubblefield to a huge free agent contract in 1998, but Stubblefield was a bust with the Redskins. What follows is Casserly's draft record with the Redskins. 1990 Round Player Position School 1 - None - Traded to Atlanta for Gerald Riggs the previous year by Beathard. 2 - Collins, Andre LB Penn State - good player 3 - Elewonibi, Mohammed T Brigham Young - bust, injury prone 4 - Conklin, Cary QB Washington - bust 4 - Labbe, Rico DB Boston College - bust 5 - Mitchell, Brian RB Louisiana-Lafayette - HOF kick returner 6 - Wells, Kent DT Nebraska 9 - Moxley, Tim G Ohio State 10 - Francisco, D'Juan DB Notre Dame 10 - Rayam, Thomas G Alabama 11 - Leverenz, Jon MLB Minnesota 1991 1 (17th) - Wilson, Bobby DT Michigan St. - injured, hardly played 3 - Ervins, Ricky RB Southern California - good backup for a couple yrs 4 - Traded to Pittsburgh for DT Tim Johnson 6 - Ransom, Dennis TE Texas A&M 7 - Cash, Keith TE Texas 8 - Spencer, Jimmy CB Florida 9 - Bell, Charles DB Baylor 10 - Shale, Cris P Bowling Green 11 - Gulledge, David DB Jacksonville State 12 - McCardell, Keenan WR Nevada-Las Vegas - cut - all pro but not with Skins 1992 1 (4th) Howard, Desmond WR Michigan - major bust - cost us TWO #1 picks to trade up. If we had stayed put with our 7th and 28th pick of the 1st round, we could have drafted two all pros, CB Troy Vincent and FS Darryl Williams, who were taken with those picks. 2 - Collins, Shane DE Arizona State - bust 3 - Siever, Paul G Penn State - bust 4 - Hakel, Chris QB William & Mary - bust 6 - Rowe, Ray TE San Diego State - made the roster, little else 7 - Holmes, Calvin DB Southern California 8 - Moore, Darryl T Texas-El Paso 9 - Powell, Boone LB Texas 10 - Barker, Tony LB Rice 11 - Smith, Terry WR Penn State 12 - Elliott, Matt C Michigan - made the roster, thats about all 1993 1 (17th) - Carter, Tom CB Notre Dame - started 2-3 years, left 2 - Brooks, Reggie RB Notre Dame - one year wonder, then a bust. 3 - Hamilton, Rick MLB Central Florida - bust 3 - Bunn, Ed P Texas-El Paso - bust 4 - Palmer, Sterling DE Florida State - injury prone bust 5 - Huntington, Greg G Penn State - made roster 6 - Morrison, Darryl DB Arizona 6 - Wycheck, Frank TE Maryland - cut - all pro but not with Skins 8 - Hollinquest, Lamont LB Southern California - ST player 1994 1 (3rd) Shuler, Heath QB Tennessee - bust 2 - Johnson, Tre G Temple - all pro one year, injury prone afterwards 3 - Winans, Tydus WR Fresno State - bust 3 - Patton, Joseph G Alabama A&M - starter for awhile 4 - Haws, Kurt TE Utah - bust 6 - Nottage, Dexter DE Florida A&M - didn’t do anything with Skins 7 - Frerotte, Gus QB Tulsa - so-so, never progressed too much, played better with other teams 1995 1 (4th) - Westbrook, Michael WR Colorado - disappointment, injury prone - could have drafted Warren Sapp or Derrick Brooks instead. 2 - Raymer, Cory C Wisconsin - decent starter for a couple years 3 - Pounds, Darryl CB Nicholls State - part-time starter - disappointment 4 - Jones, Larry RB Miami - bust 5 - Asher, Jamie TE Louisville - one good season 5 - Owens, Ritchie DE Lehigh - good pass rusher for only one season 6 - Thure, Brian T California - bust 7 - Turner, Scott CB Illinois - ST player 1996 1 (18th) - Traded to St. Louis for Sean Gilbert - WR Marvin Harrison was drafted one pick later (19th). Gilbert had one good season, then held out a year; later obtained two #1 picks when Gilbert refused to play for Skins again. 1 (30th) - Johnson, Andre T Penn State - bust - traded a 2nd and 3rd round draft pick to Dallas, to move up into the bottom of the 1st round. Johnson was out of football in a couple years! 4 - Davis, Stephen RB Auburn - outstanding player after a few years 5 - Evans, Leomont S Clemson - average starter for 1-2 years 6 - Kinney, Kelvin DE Virginia State 7 - Asher, Jeremy LB Oregon 7 - Maxwell, De Andre WR San Diego State 1997 1 (17th) - Lang, Kenard DE Miami - so, so starter 2 - Jones, Greg OLB Colorado - bust 3 - Smith, Derek ILB Arizona State - good starter, now with 49ers 4 - Connell, Albert WR Texas A&M - one or two good yrs, but head case 5 - Williams, Jamel DB Nebraska 5 - Thibodeaux, Keith CB N.W. Louisiana 5 - Russell, Twan OLB Miami 5 - Badger, Brad G Stanford - fair starter, backup with Raiders now 1998 1 (17th)- Traded this #1 and #3 pick (1999) for Dan Wilkinson - overpaid in picks and money. Randy Moss was still on the board near the end of the round. 2 - Alexander, Stephen TE Oklahoma - injury prone, avg. player 3 - Hicks, Skip RB UCLA - bust 4 - Barber, Shawn OLB Richmond - decent 1 season, now a Chief 5 - Fischer, Mark C Purdue - part-time starter 6 - Palmer, Patrick WR N.W. Louisiana 7 - Terrell, David FS Texas-El Paso - ST and part-time starter 7 - Ponds, Antwaune LB Syracuse 1999* 1 (7th) Bailey, Champ CB Georgia - all pro, but not a shutdown CB 2 - Jansen, Jon T Michigan - solid starter 3 - Traded this pick and #1 in 1998 for Dan Wilkinson - not a good trade 4 - Stimson, Nate LB Georgia Tech - bust 5 - Smith, Derek T Virginia Tech - never recovered from injuries 6 - Hall, Jeff K Tennessee - cut 7 - Alexander, Tim WR Oregon State Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PapaDRoc Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Good post. You have definetely put out a great point. Hopefully our mid to late round picks do work out from the first two drafts of the Gibbs regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Wrong. The top 100 reasons: 1. No QB 2. No QB 3. No QB 4. No QB 5. No QB 6. No QB ... ... .. ... ... .. .. 95. No QB 96. No QB 97. No QB 98. No QB 99. No QB 100. Norv (because he couldn't find us a QB) That's all the NFL is about, people... one position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Nice, Riggo, but it brings back a lot of memories I had hope lost... :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Hmmm....I wonder if Charlie Casserly has improved his drafting with the Texans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Well, he has picked up Andre Johnson and Dunta Robinson, so I'd say he's finally bought a clue... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 nah, Casserly is still an incompetant boob, he may be improving at making top 10 picks, but that is supposed to be the easy part of the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLongshot Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by Riggo-toni Casserly traded a 1st round pick in 1998 (17th) and a 3rd round pick (1999) for DT Dan Wilkinson. Too bad, because the Skins could have drafted Randy Moss who was drafted with the 21st pick of the 1st round. IMHO we overpaid in picks and money for Big Daddy, who was no more than an average DT with us. No doubt we overpaid for him, but saying we could have drafted Randy Moss is another thing. 20 teams could have drafted him, but didn't. It wouldn't have surprised me if we passed on him as well, even if we did have a pick. Casserly traded a 1st and 2nd round pick (1999) and 3rd round pick (2000) for 31 year-old QB Brad Johnson, and although Johnson took us to the playoffs that year, Johnson departed via free agency after just two seasons. ... If the Skins had kept just their #1 pick they could have drafted QB Daunte Culpepper instead. This requires some context. At that time, it was decided that Gus Ferotte wasn't going to be the answer. Norv didn't have the luxury to try and groom another QB, and the only way to really get a starting calibur QB nowadays is to trade for him. While I thought it was a lot to give up at the time, in the end I thought it was the right move. Course, the whole thing was ruined by a stupid owner who somehow thought Jeff George was going to be the answer. It just killed me that Brad was probably the perfect QB for Shottenheimer's system, but due to Snyder's meddling, ruined any chance of him resigning here. I must give credit where some credit is due, however, and that was the year 1991 when he traded for DT’s Eric Williams and Tim Johnson and signed Plan B middle linebacker Matt Millen. These moves solidified a Redskin weakness against the run at the time and helped the team win the Super Bowl. Glad someone mentioned this. One of his highlights here. One thing also not mentioned is him trading Shuler to New Orleans for a third and a fifth. Pretty much a steal for us, since I don't think Shuler ever hit the field again. Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragon_mikal Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by zoony Wrong. The top 100 reasons: 1. No QB 2. No QB 3. No QB 4. No QB 5. No QB 6. No QB ... ... .. ... ... .. .. 95. No QB 96. No QB 97. No QB 98. No QB 99. No QB 100. Norv (because he couldn't find us a QB) That's all the NFL is about, people... one position. Trent Dilfer has already disproved that theory... So has Peyton Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted July 15, 2005 Share Posted July 15, 2005 Originally posted by dragon_mikal Trent Dilfer has already disproved that theory... The exception that proves the rule means nothing. Besides, look it up, Dilfer had a good year in 2000 So has Peyton Manning. Are you referring to captain choke-a-lot? The guy who throws TD passes when it doesn't matter? The second coming of Dan Marino? :jerk: Give me Tom Brady anyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofer Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Weak draft. Weak coaching. Changing coaches like socks. Old, ineffective owner. New, inexperienced and over zealous owner. Free agency has hurt more than helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottlo34 Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Bring back Beathard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Originally posted by zoony Are you referring to captain choke-a-lot? The guy who throws TD passes when it doesn't matter? The second coming of Dan Marino? :jerk: Give me Tom Brady anyday. [/b] I think that was his point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted July 17, 2005 Share Posted July 17, 2005 Originally posted by Riggo-toni I think that was his point. I read it to mean that a great QB can't and won't will the team to victory... i.e. the Colts can't win the big game even though they have Manning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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