I was threatened to be slapped in the face today.......

[Tom [Giants fan]]

TD has it right. People nowadays just walk on egg shells when it comes to kids. Don't say anything to them. Don't upset them more than they already are. Let them yell and scream and maybe they will just stop on their own when they are done. Let them have their own way so they don't get mad.

This is exactly what they expect when they do things like this. And it is a big part of the problem. Kids nowadays don't have the fear that some of us had when we were kids. They aren't scared or worried about repercussions of their actions because there aren't any.

I'm sorry but I don't walk on eggshells for the sake of keeping a child happy or not angering them more. He was acting a certain way and I called him on it.

[iheartskins]

Originally posted by RonJeremy

This line of thinking by parents is exactly why kids are so much more disrespectful today as opposed to when I went to school.

If I came home (in the 7th grade) and said I got kicked out of school today because I didn't get my snack and my teacher said I was acting like a baby...my parents would have kicked my ass and said the teacher was right...you were acting like a baby.

In that line of thinking the kid comes home, the parents become outraged, they call the principal, the superintendent, and hire a lawyer...thus the kid has learned how to circumvent authority.

Discipline in school and how parent's discipline their children at home is totally different than how the school should, no?

I agree that there is clearly a diconnect at home in respect to what is permissible conduct in school. That's is clearly the parent's problem.

But again, that doesn't mean that a teacher, irrespective of how rude the student is, should encourage a direct confrontation. That confrontation should go before the principal, or someone who is a third party to the situation.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Tom, as long as you don't have Giants stuff up on the walls, I'd love for my kids (whenever I have any) to have a teacher like you!

[Tom [Giants fan]]

It all comes down to this: where a kid has shown violent propensity (with a chain and succesive non-violent and violent threats), what's the point in encouraging a direct confrontation?[/Quote]

This is only the third day of summer school. He has never shown a violent propensity. I just found out about him being a bully and you would never believe it looking at him. I don't really know the kid. If I know a certain kid has certain tendencies, that is the time I wouldn't do something to provoke him further. But taking that approach with every student is not what I'm about or how I teach. Like I've said, I don't walk on eggshells because a kid may yell a little louder.

[iheartskins]

Originally posted by TD_washingtonredskins

The kid has to learn that he can't ***** and moan everytime he doesn't get his way. Teachers shouldn't instigate confrontations, I agree. However, they shouldn't feel as though they can't discipline a kid just because he might fly off the handle.

I agree with that. I just think that there could have been a way for this kid to come to this conclusion that wouldn't have ended up in expulsion from the program. And because I see Tom's statement to him as a direct cause for the physical threat, I think Tom could have handled the situation differently so that everyone were in a better position.

Essentially, no comment about "being a baby", no "physical threat"--and, instead, based on already inappropriate conduct the student is sent to the principal and is discplined appropriately but is not forced to leave.

[GASkinsfan28]

Man i have wanted to do that and say that to a teacher but i never have.

Like last year my Biology teacher hated me and he got in my face wne i was walking down the hall and she was liek u know wut u r old enough to drop out if u r not hear to learn then y dont u just do that? I told her i am making straight A's how is that not learning? then he just started yelling at me and took me to the Principal for talking back and being disrespectful then i told the principal wut happened and he got in more trouble then i did!!! I was so happy but for the rest of the semster every thing i did i got yelled at so it kinda sucked ne wayz.

But ne wayz i wanted to hit him real bad!

[iheartskins]

Originally posted by Tom [Giants fan]

TD has it right. People nowadays just walk on egg shells when it comes to kids. Don't say anything to them. Don't upset them more than they already are. Let them yell and scream and maybe they will just stop on their own when they are done. Let them have their own way so they don't get mad.

This is exactly what they expect when they do things like this. And it is a big part of the problem. Kids nowadays don't have the fear that some of us had when we were kids. They aren't scared or worried about repercussions of their actions because there aren't any.

I'm sorry but I don't walk on eggshells for the sake of keeping a child happy or not angering them more. He was acting a certain way and I called him on it.

But is that for you to do as a teacher or for the parents to do at home?

[Tom [Giants fan]]

iheart,

That is naieve to think that teachers should have no discipline responsibilities with students if that is what you mean. When a kid is acting out, should a teacher tell them to hold on a minute they need to get someone who can deal with discipline?

I'm going to be an In school suspension teacher come September. I am going to be dealing with the worse kids in the school. Am I supposed to just sit there quietly and let them do what they want so I don't upset them?

These kids will be walking in a straight line to the bathroom together and if one talks, they all go back. There will be no talking. And there will be no sleeping.

I am big on discipline. It is not in me to stay quiet and let a kids temper tantrum get him or her what they want.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Originally posted by GASkinsfan28

Man i have wanted to do that and say that to a teacher but i never have.

Like last year my Biology teacher hated me and he got in my face wne i was walking down the hall and she was liek u know wut u r old enough to drop out if u r not hear to learn then y dont u just do that? I told her i am making straight A's how is that not learning? then he just started yelling at me and took me to the Principal for talking back and being disrespectful then i told the principal wut happened and he got in more trouble then i did!!! I was so happy but for the rest of the semster every thing i did i got yelled at so it kinda sucked ne wayz.

But ne wayz i wanted to hit him real bad!

Cute story.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Discipline is implied in a teacher's job. It's impossible to ask a person to teach 30 teenagers something without also asking that person to impose some discipline.

[Tom [Giants fan]]

GASkinsfan,

If you and I had that exchange and you told me you had straight A's, I would have shook your hand and said keep it up. I don't know why you were taken to the principal's office.

[iheartskins]

Originally posted by Tom [Giants fan]

If I know a certain kid has certain tendencies, that is the time I wouldn't do something to provoke him further.

Tom, that's all I'm advocating. I guess I just read the situation such that that kind of response was appropriate here.

It just seems to me that kids that need summer school and need the extra disciple usually don't benefit from explusion, because expulsion, while it provides an immediate solution, it ends up letting the kid of free--now he won't even have to go to school this summer. Instead, if the exchange hadn't taken place, perhaps the kid would have had to suffer through detention or extra reading or whatever, such that the discipline came in through an alternate path.

[iheartskins]

Originally posted by Tom [Giants fan]

iheart,

That is naieve to think that teachers should have no discipline responsibilities with students if that is what you mean. When a kid is acting out, should a teacher tell them to hold on a minute they need to get someone who can deal with discipline?

That's not what I mean. I just think there are appropriate means of discipline that parents are entitled to perform that teachers are not.

Additionally, even where it's clear that the parents have not adequately performed the discipline function, it's not for teachers to act as a complete substitute. Some disciplining duties must fall on the teacher's shoulders, of course, as that's an integral or central part of their job, but there are some things that aren't.

[Destino]

This whole was Tom right to call the kid a baby thing is rather silly. We are completely ignoring the fact that Tom is a human male, and will no matter how hard he tries, will always be ruled to a certain extent by his emotions. The kid pissed him off and he shot off a harmless comment. If this pissed the kid off good, if I had been Tom I'd had told this kid "Get the hell out of my class you useless little ****" just like my teachers used to do to smart mouth punks.

Adults should not be made to show great respect to young kids. That's where we've all gone wrong. Respect is EARNED, or at least it used to be. You behaved and did what you were told and teachers were nice to you and treated you well. If you were a horses @ss then you weren't so well received.

[big z]

this kinda stuff makes me long for back in the day when a teacher could use that yardstick and give the kid a good whuppin in front of his classmates....

i see what heart is saying, but i don't agree. as long as you said nothing derogatory or profane, you should be able to call out a kid that is acting childish by telling him no one else is.

good job. hopefuly he gets some discipline at home.

[redskins4life234]

Tom, if my History teacher last year had a kid say that to him, he would smack him so hard, the kid be in the Hospital and im not kidding. I rolled my eyes at him once because he was annoying me and, he kicked me out of class for 15 minutes.

For the kids sake, good thing you were the teacher.

[Destino]

Originally posted by big z

this kinda stuff makes me long for back in the day when a teacher could use that yardstick and give the kid a good whuppin in front of his classmates....

In today's violent society given a kid a "whuppin" would make certain that your property would be damaged and make it likely that you'd be assaulted in the near future. Kids these days are all about avenging every tiny act of disrespect.

[SamSneed36]

no wonder americans are so fat, we cant go three hours without a snack

[Tom [Giants fan]]

no wonder americans are so fat, we cant go three hours without a snack[/Quote]

:laugh:

Thank you, I didn't think there was any possible way of getting a laugh out of this thread!!

[DieselPwr44]

The more I read about these type of incidences the more Bobby Knight's words ring true.

He once said : " Parents today are too interested in being their kid's buddy instead of their parent."

How in the world did it get turned upside down? Nowadays, if you discipline a kid, they can have you carted off to jail on child abuse charges.

It may make me sound old but "back in my day", you make a threat, you got sent to the principal's office, where..hanging on the wall was a paddle and you got your butt smacked and then a note sent home.

Then when you got home, Dad or Mom gave it to you again. One way or the other, you learned to behave.

[TXREDSKINS44]

Originally posted by SamSneed36

no wonder americans are so fat, we cant go three hours without a snack

That is so true!!:laugh:

[RonJeremy]

Originally posted by iheartskins

Discipline in school and how parent's discipline their children at home is totally different than how the school should, no?

I agree that there is clearly a diconnect at home in respect to what is permissible conduct in school. That's is clearly the parent's problem. But again, that doesn't mean that a teacher, irrespective of how rude the student is, should encourage a direct confrontation. That confrontation should go before the principal, or someone who is a third party to the situation.

I think you are confusing a philosphical approach to student/teacher interaction with the reality of the modern school system.

Teachers today are dealing with the "time-out" generation of kids. These kids have no respect for authority and their parents enabled them to be this way.

When a student verbally confronts a teacher it isn't practical to just tell them to "hold on little Johnny, you appear angry...let's take a walk to the principal's office and discuss it with him/her".

Reality is the kid will see you as weak and nothing more than tattle-tale if you don't let them know who is in charge at the time of the incident.

IMO, your thinking will lead to you being "run" over by the students. You don't earn respect and maintain control of your classroom by deferring all discipline to the principal.

[riggins44]

I honestly believe that teachers are grossly under paid. They have a lot to put up with.

Tom, glad the administration backed you up and suspended the

kid.

My 7th grade teacher would have set me straight, then called

my parents. I would have caught he11 when I got home.

[iheartskins]

Originally posted by RonJeremy

I think you are confusing a philosphical approach to student/teacher interaction with the reality of the modern school system.

Perhaps.

Teachers today are dealing with the "time-out" generation of kids. These kids have no respect for authority and their parents enabled them to be this way.

When a student verbally confronts a teacher it isn't practical to just tell them to "hold on little Johnny, you appear angry...let's take a walk to the principal's office and discuss it with him/her".

It's clear from the hyperbole of your example, that you know that I wasn't saying this would be an appropriate response.

Reality is the kid will see you as weak and nothing more than tattle-tale if you don't let them know who is in charge at the time of the incident.

That's true, and I agree, that in appropriate circumstances, a direct confrontation is definitely in order.

IMO, your thinking will lead to you being "run" over by the students. You don't earn respect and maintain control of your classroom by deferring all discipline to the principal. [/b]

Again, I haven't advocated that all discipline be deferred to the principal--only in those situations where there is a possibility that if the teacher asserts him/herself that the student will respond with phsyical threats and/or violence as here where it seemed like the kid has already stated that he was weary of Tom and that Tom's additional statement escalated the situation. Further, in this circumstance, where there was another teacher present, it might have made sense for that other teacher to act as the disciplinarian instead of having Tom get more involved.

Finally, Tom, I'm sure you are a good teacher and care much for your students, and it's clear from what you've written on Extreme that you are a good person whose clearly oriented to serve the best interests of your students. I just don't agree with your response in this limited circumstance.

[TheSteve]

You have to understand, iheartskins is a lawyer.