RunRiggoRun Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 This post is one of the millions of reasons that i truely believe Eagles fans are the worst in the league. Now dont get me wrong they do have some knowledgeable fans that know what they are talking about, and we have seen them in these forums, but they have another very big population of front runners that live in or around philly that never cared about the Eagles until about 5 or 6 years ago when they woke up and found out they were the crapping pot of the East anymore. (lived with a frontrunner philly fan last year at school) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denverdan Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Westbrook36 If Gibbs has a year as bad as last, this question will be laughed at if asked again next offseason. How so Westbrook? Sometimes it takes more than a season or even two to build a superbowl champ or even a consistent winner. Gibbs was off less time than Vermeil and hes a better coach. Here is Dick Vermeil's records after his comeback, | 1997 ram | 5 11 0 | 0 0 | | 1998 ram | 4 12 0 | 0 0 | | 1999 ram | 13 3 0 | 3 0 | | 2001 kan | 6 10 0 | 0 0 | | 2002 kan | 8 8 0 | 0 0 | | 2003 kan | 13 3 0 | 0 1 | | 2004 kan | 7 9 0 | 0 0 | Just wondering if you had a choice between Gibbs and Vermeil who would you pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by budski Art, Disagree with you on this one. Having a player fit a system is no differant than having a system fit a player, in fact it is the same. Once the player is in the system and whether it works out or not is dependent on how good the people are that pick the player. Reid is just as good as Gibbs at this I think. The problem exists in adapting your game plans for level 2 (playoffs) level 3 (superbowl). Reid can do it all, but there is something that is lacking when it comes to level 3. On top of that problem is the longer you stay the top dog, the more the other dogs learn how your tactics work and how to take you down. You said gibbs was good at adjusting, Reid is also, but adjusting in the playoffs, superbowl, are worlds apart from adjusting in the regular season. thats what separates the two men. Bud, I'm not sure how you conclude having a player fit a system is no different than having a system fit a player. It's so far different it is not even in the ballpark for similarity. Identifying the system, then, finding players who fit it and are successful in it is what most coaches do. Most have a specific vision as to how to do things. Most coaches believe you do it the way they think and you win. If they get the right players to make their vision real, they win. If they don't, they don't, yet, the way they do things is not necessarily invalidated. They just didn't get the right players. That is VERY different than what a very small number of coaches have shown they are willing to do, which is to take the players, and mold the system around them. Then, as the players change, continue to mold, not just between years, but, between games and even IN games. Very few coaches are willing to scrap a game play minutes into a Super Bowl and simply do something else to directly counter what the opposition is doing. Gibbs did that. Very few coaches implement plays developed on the bus on the way to the game IN the game when the game is the Super Bowl. Gibbs allowed Petitbone and Pec to do that. Few coaches have ever shown the flexibility and adaptability of Gibbs. His method of operation is entirely different than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Art Then, as the players change, continue to mold, not just between years, but, between games and even IN games. Very few coaches are willing to scrap a game play minutes into a Super Bowl and simply do something else to directly counter what the opposition is doing. Gibbs did that. Very few coaches implement plays developed on the bus on the way to the game IN the game when the game is the Super Bowl. Gibbs allowed Petitbone and Pec to do that. Few coaches have ever shown the flexibility and adaptability of Gibbs. His method of operation is entirely different than the other. The "Bus Driver special" in Super Bowl 26. Wow what a play. Blitz, Thurman Thomas misses the pick up, Goviea picks it off, returns it to the 1. Next play, Riggs walks into the end zone, 24-0, less then a minute into the 3rd quarter. The game plan against the Bills in that Super Bowl was as brilliant as there ever will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgs44 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Westbrook36 If Gibbs has a year as bad as last, this question will be laughed at if asked again next offseason. It sure will, cause Gibbs will still have 3 rings, and Reid still wont!:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by denverdan How so Westbrook? Sometimes it takes more than a season or even two to build a superbowl champ or even a consistent winner. Gibbs was off less time than Vermeil and hes a better coach. Here is Dick Vermeil's records after his comeback, | 1997 ram | 5 11 0 | 0 0 | | 1998 ram | 4 12 0 | 0 0 | | 1999 ram | 13 3 0 | 3 0 | | 2001 kan | 6 10 0 | 0 0 | | 2002 kan | 8 8 0 | 0 0 | | 2003 kan | 13 3 0 | 0 1 | | 2004 kan | 7 9 0 | 0 0 | Just wondering if you had a choice between Gibbs and Vermeil who would you pick? Man, you have a built in excuse to last you several years now. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budski Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Art, I think you just said what I said, but better. Ill try again. It is the ability of the coaching staff to be able to pick the right player accurately. What may appear to be the right player for the system may infact not work out, because the coaches picked wrong. Reid and Gibbs are both good at that picking the right player. The changing of gameplans you mentioned is what I was referring to about level 2 and 3. Reid has not been able to do that. Never heard about the bus play though.... can you fill me in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budski Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Westbrook, Careful DenverDan may have his built in excuse. The eagles seem to be working on a legacy of excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Why did Gibbs pick Portis if he doesn't really fit his system? :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budski Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Oh westbrook go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wskin44 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Portis fell into his lap for Bailey who would have been very difficult to retain, even though we franchised him. Portis tried to adjust to Gibb's system and wasn't as effective as he had been in the past, so Gibb's adjusted his system. As others have maintained, many coaches wouldn't make the adjustment. Gibbs usually adjusts and ends up a winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgs44 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Westbrook36 Why did Gibbs pick Portis if he doesn't really fit his system? :confused: Why would Andy Reid draft a QB that :puke: in the Super Bowl? :eaglesuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Westbrook36 Why did Gibbs pick Portis if he doesn't really fit his system? :confused: Because Gibbs is not like Reid. Gibbs is flexible. He will cater his system to the players he has. As he learned Portis he adjusted and tweaked and in the offseason, went out and added players on the outside who he thinks further assist the skills Portis has. The question you ask though, "Why did Gibbs pick Portis if he doesn't really fit his system?" is the sort of ignorance you should not have as a regular here. Gibbs doesn't pick guys who fit his system. He picks guys who can play football, then he adjusts his system to fit them. Gibbs, obviously, didn't really know the players in the NFL very well last year, so, he had to do this on the fly. It'll be another year or two before he really gets the knowledge he'll probably need to really identify complimentary parts. You should know this being here as long as you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denverdan Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Westbrook36 Man, you have a built in excuse to last you several years now. :laugh: Being an bEAGLES fan, you've become quite the expert on built in excuses, I'm mean how else would you be able to cope? At least they are keeping it interesting for you by finding different ways how to choke :puke: I know you watched both games last year, both were very close, so I would expect you to give Gibbs just a little bit of respect or at least equal that which you would afford any first year coach. Andy Reid 5-11 Joe Gibbs 6-10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by denverdan Being an bEAGLES fan, you've become quite the expert on built in excuses, I'm mean how else would you be able to cope? At least they are keeping it interesting for you by finding different ways how to choke :puke: I know you watched both games last year, both were very close, so I would expect you to give Gibbs just a little bit of respect or at least equal that which you would afford any first year coach. Andy Reid 5-11 Joe Gibbs 6-10 I didn't know last year was Gibbs first as a coach. So he was like a newborn last year? :laugh: Anyway, Gibbs still gets the nod because of the rings, even a Eagles homer like me can't take that away from him. He still had some moments (well, more than some) which left many scratching their head thinking it was his first season as an NFL Head coach. He largely got a pass last year because he is a living legend. I don't think he'll get the same pass this year if he still struggles with the most basic fundementals of coaching a football game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Yes, Andy Reid is fatter than Joe Gibbs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denverdan Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by Westbrook36 I didn't know last year was Gibbs first as a coach. So he was like a newborn last year? :laugh: Anyway, Gibbs still gets the nod because of the rings, even a Eagles homer like me can't take that away from him. He still had some moments (well, more than some) which left many scratching their head thinking it was his first season as an NFL Head coach. He largely got a pass last year because he is a living legend. I don't think he'll get the same pass this year if he still struggles with the most basic fundementals of coaching a football game. Yes, when you build a team almost from scratch as Gibbs did last year, you are a first year coach. If you would of watched more than 2 Redskins games last year you would know that some of Gibbs problems early in the year like Clock Management and Ref challenges were not a problem later in the year. The same cannot be said for Reid and his brilliant Super Bowl clock management, but he was probably more worried about stepping in barf so he gets a nod and a pass.:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denverdan Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Westbrook just in case you missed the Putin thread: Originally posted by 70Chip OK. So, there are now more Super Bowl rings in the Kremlin than in Philadelphia. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westbrook36 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Well, that's actually a pretty hilarious line. :laugh: Reid and Levens both have rings, so the statement, albeit funny, is incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 3 - Superbowl rings in five appearences...Gibbs 0 - Superbowl rings in one appearence...Reid ??????Not much to compare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themurf Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Dear Cheesesteak Andy, Win a Super Bowl (or three) and make the Hall of Fame. Then we'll talk. Hugs, Joe Gibbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgs44 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by DC 3 - Superbowl rings in five appearences...Gibbs 0 - Superbowl rings in one appearence...Reid ??????Not much to compare Dont shortchange Gibbs, he got 3 rings in 4 chances :point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denverdan Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally posted by DC 3 - Superbowl rings in five appearences...Gibbs 0 - Superbowl rings in one appearence...Reid ??????Not much to compare Don't short change Reid either, Westbrook has already informed us that as an assistant coach Reid has a ring, too bad it doesn't fit on his chubby fingers anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Master Jay Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Reid has to win some Super Bowls to even be in the same conversation as Mr. Gibbs. Regular season records dont count ask Coach Marty about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vman2k6 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 according to last season, Reid outcoached gibbs...but gibbs will def. adjust this year to shoot him way past andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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