BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

….The Chargers are closer to the Super Bowl (even with KC directly in their path) than the Commanders are to even having a thought at the 5th Wild Card spot. And that won’t materially change going into next season. Some of you are delusional lol 

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Herbert alone makes their situation more attractive than ours.

 

But, it should be pointed out:

-Their cap is a mess.

-Allen will be 32 before next season. (honestly I would rather have Terry going forward, though it's not by a ton)

-Bosa and James both have pretty spotty injury histories. 

_Ownership there has to be considered a negative.

 

Actually, after Herbert, the most appealing piece they have is Rashawn Slater, imo. 

All good points. 
 

1 minute ago, NickyJ said:

Chargers look appealing on paper and probably will remain so to coaches, but I've actually cooled off on them a lot. The Chargers have had the same story for 20 years.

 

Marty/Norv/McCoy/Lynn/Staley is going to be the right guy to push Brees/Rivers/Herbert from being just very good to true greatness. Just you wait, they're going to set the league on fire.

 

They are the Dallas Cowboys of the west coast. Always good, never good enough.

Yeah they remind me so much of the pre 2018 Caps. 

Justin Herbert, Keenan Allen, Joey Bosa, and Derwin James would instantly be the best 4 players on this team. They also play in LA, which is a chill market with less pressure on it. Even though KC is an unstoppable force, you get to play the Raiders and Broncos twice. Hell, their stadium gets taken over every week too but at least it is a literal palace to play in. IIRC, they’ll be opening up a new team facility near El Segundo as well. 

That job is pretty well ahead of ours. 

Bulls still stink so not much to add but...

....Wow. We used to have some DEBATES in this thread. Can't believe it is still going. Can't believe the Tailgate is still going. Haven't been in here in at least 7-8 years.

Every week doesn't need to be a referendum. He's not up for a contract until the end of next year. That's why I keep emphasizing that there is no rush to make proclamations. 

He's not a top 10 QB. That is fine. The Josh Allen debate was ridiculous. We know that

He might be a top 16 QB. That's a huge win! He's basically a rookie.

He's easily the 3rd best QB drafted since 2021. That's a huge win.

Let's just chill and enjoy the ride. Today was a huge valley. He stunk. That's ok.That is what I would expect from a young borderline top 16 guy. Ups and downs. Let's live in reality.

The crowning of this offense was pure comedy. They’re still closer to bad than good. 

Guys, the pass rush still sucks 

they’re playing Danny Devito lol 

he’s barely an XFL QB

Stunned at the amount of ppl that thought this was some type of mismatch. The Commanders are a bad team. They should not be expected to beat anyone in a blowout 

I mean is it not obvious??? Giants +9 is easy money. 
 

NYG 21

WSH 20

Walk off FG at the gun 

10 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

That's fair. 

 

I also like Howell's playmaking abilities too. The cool as a cucumber attitude he posses and has a short memory and when he led us to tie in that Eagles game and knowing how many seconds were left on the clock and the surgical throws. Even some of the vets fail at that. As a semi-rookie that is damn good in my book. Other QB who have done really well in the NFL, not being so tall, Brees, Wilson and Hurts, to name a few, but Murray and Young are only 5'10", that I think is a tad bit smallish though. Still I don't get too hung up on size but like to see what a QB can do is more important than their height. 

 

This isn’t a Bills board but it’s not just the size. He’s a legit plus runner. Like legitimately. I remember arguing with ppl in 2018 that his rushing upside would give him more time to figure out the passing side and it definitely did. He was elite running the ball from day one. 
I don’t know if Sam has the ability to give you 500+ on the ground in the NFL. He lacks Allen’s size or Lamar’s speed. 
 

That’s not to say Sam can’t run. He can but I figure it’ll look more like how Trevor Lawrence and Andrew Luck had enough functional athleticism to reel off a few nice runs. 

Just now, illone said:

 

 

I think Sam can get to that level, sure. 

 

Buffalo was one drive from the SB for more reasons than just Allen.  That defense is pretty darn good, or at least it was when Milano, Jones and White were healthy.

 

Let's see what happens over the next five years and then we can bump this thread and hand out trophies to everyone that was right 🤣

 

 

 

The final score of that game was 42-36 lol.

For all of our sakes, I hope you are so right and I look like the biggest idiot. Truly do. 

The narrative is that Josh Allen was awful his rookie year. He definitely struggled as a passer but he still had a higher QBR than Sam does in 2023 lol. 
 

He also had 600+ yards rushing and 8 TDs on the ground lol. 

8 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

But decisions are not made in a vacuum if you are a good GM with foresight. 

 

Let's assume Howell and Allen were in the same draft class and if you had to pick one to be on your team who would you have picked just based on stats? Would you have still gone for Allen because he is 4 inches taller and the typical prototypical NFL QB that everyone wants? Or would there be other factors as well?

Yes lol. 
 

Im taking 2018 Josh Allen 10/10 over 2023 Sam Howell. Josh Allen struggled with accuracy in college and early in his career but his size and playmaking ability was always apparent. 

6 minutes ago, illone said:

 

We pretty much know who Allen is

A top 5 Qb????? 
 

The literal holy grail in the modern NFL. The guy that was one drive away from the SB??? Literally toe to toe with Patrick Mahomes. Finished top 3 in MVP voting TWICE

Are you trolling? You feel confident enough that Sam would get to that level???

11 minutes ago, illone said:

Id take Howell over Allen all things considered.

 

Id love to watch the metaverse movie where Allen is the QB and fans of the team throw things at the TV when he throws multiple picks in the same game.

 

Allen is basically Brett Favre at this point.  Big plays but lots of turnovers.

Josh Allen is basically a HOF QB. 
 

I’d say he probably needs a SB first but I agree 

5 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

So you’re comparing Josh Allen to Hall of Famer Brett Favre, but you’d still rather have Sam? Are you telling me if they offered Allen for Sam straight up you’d say no??? This thread is hilarious.

I think there’s a disconnect. Maybe they’re talking about this guy 

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I like him as person, too.

 

But as coach this season he's been for my taste insufferable.  The buck never stops with him.  He wants us to pretend he has nothing to do with this roster and we should just cherry pick the highlights.

 

A.  Him being feisty and annoyed when reporters talked about him needing to win this year.  After Ron himself said he needed to win LAST year.  But apparently he wants a restart this year as a rebuilding year.  

 

B.  The send him a SB ring next year when they win it if he's let go.

 

C.  And now this comment which alludes to him killing it with the two things he cherry picks and nothing else matters.

 

Ron is a nice guy but comes off to me really delusional and obnoxious this off season where I don't feel bad about him going even a whit. 

 

 

Yep I remember rolling my eyes at all of those.

I get it to a degree. He still has that elite, top 1% athlete mentality and as such, he expects to never stumble and if he does, it can’t be his fault. So he’s oblivious to how he sounds to the public. 

I really really don’t want to dislike Ron. Seems like a good man. 
 

But I really would prefer if he’s fired immediately. This is going to get ugly. 

25 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

 

I also do the eye test as well. I don't gamble anymore, have lost more in Vegas than I like to admit. Stocks I do better at, at least the ones I pick and not the one my son tells me to buy  like the hottest biotech stock lol. I try to be well informed before I make a decision. Lots of research using various tools. Football is no different to me. I said Chase was a bust two years ago. I call them as I see it. That's all. 

 

At this point I truly think Howell is better than Allen given the state of our OL and D as a rookie vs. Allen the rookie or even 2nd year. How well Allen be playing right now if behind a crappy OL and D? You have to take that into account to make any sense of it as to where I am coming from. 

Honestly I’m just glad to see we still have true die hard fans around. I and pretty much anyone else (Sam’s family included) would disagree with your points but hope you’re right someday 

52 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

And Allen looked like a non-MVP against the Jets. Who is the Jets QB again lol

 

I know Sam is doing great. I knew he would be good but he is gone above even my own expectations. But when someone said he is no Allen that I can't hang with though. I think people also forget that Allen has been on a playoff team and Sam isn't. 

….you don’t think there’s a correlation between them being consistent contenders and Josh Allen’s play ??? 
 

After a really quick Google search, he’s top 10 in EPA since 2018. Frequently in or around top 5 in QPR. 6th in TD passes. 57-29 as a starter. Are you sure you’re thinking of the right Josh Allen? I know he didn’t play all that well Monday but in ‘23 alone, he’s 4th in EPA and 4th in QBR. Leads the league in TD passes. Like what am I missing here? 

9 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Not a homer. I call it as I see it. The way Sam makes some plays is something that I haven't seen Allen do it at all. Also it took Allen 3 years to become good and now looks like on the decline (maybe) and even got his OC fired. What Sam is doing in his first year as a starter is way beyond what Allen did as a starter. 

 

There was an analyst on McAfee show who said if a QB gets more reps in college than they are usually better prospect even if selected in the 4th round or later. He said same for Purdy. So this made me look up the stats for Allen (which I never bothered to do before - and now it makes even more sense). Sam had twice as many yards in college than Allen and he did that in only 3 years too. Also looks at their TD to INT ratio as well or even the comp. %. 

 

College stats:

 

Allen:

 

Season	Team	Games		Passing									Rushing
		GP	GS	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Avg	Lng	TD	Int	Rtg	Att	Yds	Avg	TD
2014	Reedley[18]	10	6	127	259	49.0	2,055	7.9	66	26	5	144.9	120	660	5.5	10
2015	Wyoming	2	1	4	6	66.7	51	8.5	19	0	0	138.1	3	40	13.3	0
2016	Wyoming	14	14	209	373	56.0	3,203	8.6	54	28	15	144.9	142	523	3.7	7
2017	Wyoming	11	11	152	270	56.3	1,812	6.7	47	16	6	127.8	92	204	2.2	5
Wyoming totals		27	26	365	649	56.2	5,066	7.8	54	44	21	137.7	237	767	3.2	12

 

Sam:

Season	Games		Passing								Rushing				Receiving
	GP	GS	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	TD	Int	Rtg	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD
2019	13	13	259	422	61.4	3,641	8.6	38	7	160.2	94	35	0.4	1	3	23	7.7	1
2020	12	12	237	348	68.1	3,586	10.3	30	7	179.1	92	146	1.6	5	1	1	1.0	1
2021	12	12	217	347	62.5	3,056	8.8	24	9	154.2	183	828	4.5	11	0	0	0.0	0
Career	37	37	713	1,117	63.8	10,283	9.2	92	23	164.2	369	1,009	2.8	17	4	24	6.0	2

 

The only reason Josh Allen got drafted #7 is because of the week QB class that year. Slim pickings. Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold and Jackson. Those were the choices in the 1st round. Just because Allen was selected in the 1st round doesn't mean he is the greatest thing next to slice of bread. He is not.

You say you’ve seen Sam make plays you’ve never seen Allen make….like we didn’t just see Allen look like an MVP against Sam like 2 months ago. 
 

Sam is doing great. Out of all the QBs drafted since 2021, he’s the 3rd best by a decent margin. Why can’t we just be satisfied with that? Lol 

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

I don’t know who either of those people are.

They’re fantasy guys. At least I know Hartitz is. They aren’t really analyzing him as a QB as much as he is a fantasy option. Apples to oranges to what we care about BUT Sam has been pretty good fantasy wise this year. 

Yeah hiring Belicheck would sour me on Harris and honestly, I’d probably be back to being apathetic about the franchise. That’s a Dan move if I’ve ever seen one 

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

They indeed would have to move heaven and earth to get them. 
 

And neither are guaranteed to be elite either.

I think I’m completely out on trading up for QBs. The cost is usually too much and QB development is too random. 
 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/2022-nfl-draft-what-the-past-decade-says-about-moving-up-for-a-quarterback-plus-some-trade-hypotheticals/amp/

Also, the biggest issue with a QB like Sam (or Kirk) will always be money. Luckily we have a fair bit of time before that becomes a problem. So I think we can kinda just let it play out. Go big and improve the roster next offseason and let’s go compete 

11 minutes ago, Stihl89 said:

I’m not “out” on Howell. I’m just don’t think he is going to be elite. There’s two tiers of teams in the league. Elite QBed teams and everyone else. The same 5-7 elite QBs will take most of the playoff spots whwre the rest will fight it out for the wild cards. 
 

Rather not go that route. This season imo will be the best chance at an elite QB prospect in likely years unless they decide to tank next year. Unfortunately the 25 draft isn’t looking good. 

I think this is a very valid way to look at it. That’s why I’m hoping Sam really takes an even bigger jump to close the year out. 
 

But I hear you, man. I don’t agree with all your points but I understand this way of thinking. 

We’re only 18th in PPG. That needs to tick up. In the last 4 games, we’ve scored 24, 7, 31, and 20. If you could get better consistency and more TDs, we’d really be cooking and the Sam narrative would get really crazy .