BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

6 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Sure.

 

We don't know if we'll have a chance to get a QB in or not, yet.

 

So we're all talking out of our asses

I think you just don’t want to pick another QB. Not sure why but that’s your opinion. All good. We shall see

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I don’t think Rivera’s opinion means anything.  Whoever we hire is going to make their own opinion based on what they see.

What would be the case for keeping Sam as a starter ? Honestly? He looked good for like 4 games? An unbiased analytically inclined GM is going to look at the whole picture and imo, not really be all that impressed other than that he seems to always get up after he gets sacked a bunch. 
 

His numbers (box score and advanced) are middling at best and trending towards bad. He was just benched and had his biggest fan admit he probably wouldn’t be playing if the games were meaningful. The GM would have no ties to Sam. They’ll likely end the season losing 8 in a row. What would be the realistic case for keeping Sam over drafting your own QB (and their cheaper for longer contract) ? Only thing I could think of is if you end up picking 7th or later and even then, I think there’s potentially for them to draft a guy that will likely at least compete with Sam. 

I want a unified vision. GM/HC/QB all on the same timeline and growing together. A cohesive plan for the first time in forever. You don’t punt on QB especially when you’re at rock bottom. Get him in, let him take his lumps, and build around him bc he has (potentially) five years to figure it out.

All I want as a fan is a coherent plan for the first time in forever 

Yeah it’s over for Sam. Getting benched and then buried publicly by the coach that swore for 10 months that you were some unearthed gem? 
 

imo, no GM would seriously consider him as a viable starter next year. That ship has sailed. You can’t use stats and the film looks worse and worse. Now Rivera has dumped on him. 

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

Howell is a project and projects dont last through regime changes. Just bad luck he got drafted here. If he went to like the Saints or Steelers he’d probably develop into a rock solid QB.

If he was drafted in 2021, he’d probably get a better shot here. He needed to have been paired with a coach/GM that was roughly on the same timeline as he was. 

Just now, zCommander said:

 

 Okay now I am insulted!!! 

No I love him. I was just asking. We need you die hards to balance out the jaded.
 

5 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Nuts rattle around in a bowl until you put fruit into it.

 

…..did you used to be Cooleyfan1993?

2 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The question is not how many are better now.  The question is can he develop into a 8-12 ranked starter with a better surrounding cast and more experience.

 

I am no professional evaluator, but there is some of what we saw earlier this year which would lead you to believe "yes."

 

Then there is some of what we've seen later in the year which would lead you to believe "no."

 

Which is what makes the evaluation very difficult. 

 

There is merit to going in multiple different directions, but some of it is going to depend on situations somewhat outside of our control: what pick do we end up with, who do we like and are they available?

 

Going with a rookie QB re-sets the clock.  There is merit to that.  And since rookies typically struggle, you want to get that out of the way ASAP.  

 

Putting a rookie QB in a bad situation with a bad OL and supporting cast, probably end up with the same results.

 

Getting Howell more experience with a better OL, you might have something.  Or, he might be damaged goods.

 

It's going to be a tough decision no matter what.  And a lot of the outcome is based on luck.  If you're lucky, and get it right, great. If you're not, you're fired. 

At this point, it’s not tough for me. I had zero expectations for Sam going in. I honestly thought they would end up starting Brisset bc he was gonna be such a disaster in training camp. I was 100% wrong and it was that Ravens preseason game that changed my mind. I thought “Wow, he might be able to be a solid QB”. However, the problem that was always going to be there was that Ron was a lame duck and there was going to be a ton of change in ‘24 no matter what. After the Broncos game, I was hoping maybe we could get lucky and Sam could be a legit star and not just solid. That faded over time. It wasn’t “fair” but he had to hit a home run immediately to become “the guy”. He was never going to be afforded time to develop and that’s why I say draft status certainly matters.

I think his absolute ceiling is Kirk but his most likely comp is Minshew or Daniel Jones. I think if you decided “hey, he’s my guy”, you could eventually get a one off 10-11 win season with him after 2-3 years. But that would be it and he’d fluctuate back to average the next season and you’d likely have paid him some crazy contract at that point. 
 

Since we’ve completely bottomed out, I see no reason to settle for a middling at best QB especially with limited talent around him and a new contract likely on the horizon in ‘25. There’s no sense in having him play without a contract. 
 

We will have a new GM and HC in a few weeks. Let’s have EVERYONE on the same timeline. GM, HC, and QB. A clear 5 year window to build something (at least in theory). A QB everyone believes in and hypothetically with a higher ceiling and you live with the results.

Sam will be a popular vet QB that bounces around but will always be loved by teammates and fans bc he’s exciting. He might even lead a team to wild card game some day. 

21 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Nope. They are very close to each other. Texans offense is a little better though. Get a better OL for Howell. 

How many QBs in the league are better than Howell in your mind? 

6 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

 

Lost in translation was that Howell was playing better than Allen when compared to 1st year as a starter. Allen even with his size struggled a bit his 1st two years. It wasn't until his 3rd year when the Bills put a playoff team around him. So let's do the same for Howell and he can be better than Allen. Howell still has a bit more moxie than Allen. Personally I wanted Allen to be our QB on draft day only on the fact that he went to Wy. I liked living in Rawlins when I was a teen.  

I admire the double down lol

“more moxie” 

The guy that went throw for throw with Pat Mahomes in the AFC title game. The guy that’s about to drag his team into the playoffs during a down season. Come on.

What moxie has Sam showed? He gets sacked a bunch and doesn’t cry about it ?

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think both you and the poster you quoted there are simplifying the situation.  Everyone is aware that Sam holds the ball.  Which is why it’s malpractice to put a few average OL and 3 folding chairs in front of him, while he’s learning  an entirely new system, with a league worst defense on the other side of the ball.  It’s a recipe for disaster. 
 

And for the record, you will be hard pressed to find any metrics that indicate this line is average, and just like all the other lines that other fans complain about.  This line isn’t average and worse they have the propensity to have their biggest gaffes at the most critical junctures. 

Does Sam have any accountability in the line play? At all?

Or as I asked like 3-4 months ago on here, is he just the unluckiest player ever and always has the misfortune of playing behind the worst possible linemen in every step of his career? 

23 minutes ago, philibusters said:

I have been and still am pro-Howell.  The one thing that annoyed me that some of the extreme Howell fans did was they refused to acknowledge that he was a big part of the huge amount sacks we have given up.  I have been pro-Howell, while acknowledging that he has his faults and there are things he needs to improve.  Where I have clashed with other pro-Howell people specifically though is on the sacks.  This is a normal bad O-Line.  They are probably not bottom 5 in the NFL, though they are pretty clearly below the mid point mark amongst O-Lines.  Clearly not all the sacks are on Howell, but a decent portion of them are.  Its a truism that got put into my head listening to NFL podcasts the last few years that sacks are generally more of a QB stat than O-Line stat (though obviously the stat reflects on both to some degree).  So coming into this year that was already a strong belief in me that QB's have a big part of the sack total.  So maybe its the religious zealot side of me that does not like a foundational belief to be questioned, but it annoys me that some of the fan base is putting the entire sack issue on the O-Line.

I got crushed for this for most of the year lol. I went to the opener against AZ and it was clear as day. The issue went back to college. 

32 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I've seen zero hero worship in this thread. 

 

I've seen people pretend that Howell plays in a vacuum and should shoulder every bit of blame, and then be corrected.

 

Maybe your friend should have the courage to ask his own dumb questions.

No, no, 2 ppl literally said they’d rather him over Josh Allen. That was definitely a thing 

6 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

This is how you describe Colt McCoy, Heinicke, Minshew, Fitzpatrick, Tyrod, etc 

12 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

You are right skill set matters over height sometimes. Plenty of less taller QB have been successful in NFL. Wilson and Hurts for example as well. Howell's balls don't get tipped a lot though was my point. The OL being pushed into Sam's face is why the balls are getting tipped. Field a better OL and some of these issue will just go away. For what it is worth, even the taller QBs balls get tipped from time to time. 

Sam leads the league in batted passes 

Sam looks cooked at this point so I’d lean towards Brisset being the better QB at this point. Based on that analysis, start Sam Sunday. 
 

A win would be catastrophic 

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Idk, I don’t love throwing to Williams there.  

He’s turned loose. It was a bust on their part. 
 

Ended up making a big play here but there was an even bigger one available. 
 

Any serious debate about Brisset’s performance is missing the point soooooooooo hard 

9 minutes ago, RVAskins said:

The Rams signed a long snapper after their starter was injured. How in the hell has RR stood by Cheesman all season after the way he performs? It's way past time to cut the guy.

He’d have to admit a mistake 

The idea is actually nauseating…and I really like Brisset 

No GM is going to willingly start a season with a QB coming off an 8 game losing streak and a 4-13 finish where they struggle to score more than 17 a game. 
 

I think the “develop Sam for a year” ship is gone at this point and he’d have to somehow turn into Mahomes to get it back. He’ll be on the roster but his stock will be so low that few would be clamoring for him next season. Guys it’s been over a month since he’s had a good/decent game. He’s flat out bad right now. We have to view the situation with current knowledge and not knowledge from the Seattle game. 

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

Exactly, we can lose out and still not be able to pick or trade up to replace Howell.

 

We are no place good right now, we thinking this is purgatory, but the thermostat is at 140.

Dude take a breath lol. Nothing has changed in the last month 

Just now, KDawg said:

More options available. Trades, etc.

 

And we’d be in an equal position because we wouldn’t have a QB. 
 

We have a ton of cap money and a lot of picks. A year of experience for a group of rookies and system install would do wonders for the ‘25 QB.

I feel like fans talk themselves into the “drop the QB in” scenario a lot and it rarely ever works out that way. This **** is hard and rarely goes to plan. So why waste a year and wait? Let all 3 pieces of the enterprise grow to together and always have the same goals.