BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It's really tricky IMO.

 

And its sort of cool in some ways too because we arguably in theory are playing with riches at QB in relative terms to the past.

 

A.  You got Howell who i am higher on than most.  But like you i don't know if we got a high ceiling with him.  But I am more confident than most he's a 12-15 type QB.  High floor, medium celing.

 

B.  Then you might be picking in the top 5 with in theory one of the better QB classes in awhile.

 

I am not advocating A or B.  It comes off that i am advocating B but that's only because I am debating those who are saying it has to be A.  For me both points need to be considered.

 

I hear you but why would you be upset.  Convinced Howell will be elite?  That's the only reason why I'd be upset.  

I think we have the same type of range for Sam except you obviously think his ceiling is higher. I think his best case upper bound outcome is Kirk. It’s my opinion that you can’t pay guys like that unless you’re in your contention window and have a roster chock full of young, cost controlled talent. We obviously don’t have that so with a potential high draft pick in April, I’d be willing to gamble on another guy with higher upside. In my mind, it’s a bit of waste to go into 2024 with Sam, thinking/knowing he has a middling ceiling and that he’s due a big raise in the ‘25 offseason. 
 

However, if you still think his ceiling is pretty high (and we’ve seen folks in this thread say they’d rather him than Josh Allen and Jalen Hurts) then I guess it makes sense and give him another year. 

17 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

this thread is absolutely insane.  everyone here is either Sammy is the singe greatest, or cut the bum...  and often it is the same people swing the gauntlet after different games.   (and with the same bipolar sickness in people's assessment of Bienemy)  

 

Howell is for all intents and purposes a rookie, slapped into the most dysfunctional organization in football.   the offensive line is one of the worst in the league, by ANYONE's measure.  there is a new offensive coordinator... and with all of that he would EASILY rank the second best in class if he was ranked with all of the rookie QBs this season (possibly #3, if you give Anthony Robinson a grade other than "incomplete" after 4 games, or if you call Jordan Love a rookie, AND heavily over-weight the last three games).

 

RIGNT NOW he is clearly on-route to being a middle tier QB in the NFL without any squinting or rose-colored goggles............   and that would make him the best QB that Washington has had since the 1980s, with the possible exception of that Minnesota Viking.   Easily.   and there is a chance that he exceeds that "middle of the NFL" ranking, particularly if the team under new management is able to clean out the stench of **** that hangs over every corner of the organization.   

 

calm the **** down people... he is a solid young NFL player with upside.    enjoy that!

 

 

this list stands as a happy reminder of the last 30 halcyon years of Washington QB league-wide domination.... 

Ranking The Washington Redskins' 24 Starting QBs Since Super Bowl XXVI (thesportster.com)

enjoy the nipple-stiffening walk down memory lane....

Yeah he’s a solid young player with upside. He’s also going to likely wear a 4-13 finish that likely will give the team a chance at QB with even bigger upside. 
 

It’s not just a Sam debate at this point. The last few weeks has sent the season to hell and now all options are on the table. 

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

If the Pats offered #2 for Howell and #4, would you take it?

 

I'd definitely think about it long and hard.

Without question lol. That would be a ridiculous trade for NE to make. 
 

They would then have 2 young QBs on their roster that they’d be unsure about extending in the next year or so. 

10 minutes ago, Professor_Nutter_Butter said:

The round someone was picked shouldn't matter. I still think Howell has shown promise several times this year.

It literally has to matter. There are financial implications tied directly to where someone is drafted. 

I will say that Bienemy sucks and there’s a reason why he’s never gotten a shot as a HC. The tough guy **** only works if your offense is elite or at least QB’d by Mahomes 

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I get what you’re saying from the perspective of it being hard to get behind a guy leading the league in pick 6’s.

But…

 

The only legitimate plays being made on offense are off schedule plays that Sam is making.  There is nothing there.  If Sam was the driving force behind the bad offense, there would be an abundance of tape going around indicting him.  I’m not seeing that.  I see an OC failing to gameplan against a teams weakness and tendencies.  I see a really bad OL.  I don’t see guys open and Sam missing them.

But he’s not being the driving force behind the offense. If he’s just going to be a passenger to everything surrounding him, he’s not the guy. There will be a lot of changes next year but he likely still won’t have an ideal situation next season either. And then after that, we have to start talking money. 

I was really hoping Sam could get to the point where he legitimately was a solid QB that was capable of leading a capable offense every week. Where I could go into a week and say “well they’ve be underdogs of course but I know the offense will be good so we definitely have a chance.” Instead there’s even more questions. It will always be harder for him to get the validation he needs bc 1) he wasn’t picked by the football ppl hired by current ownership and 2) he’s a 5th round pick. He pretty much has to be how Shroud is and reach out and take it. He’s not doing it. In fact, he’s regressing and looking exactly how you’d think a 5th round pick would look. You cannot finish 4-13 and struggle to score 20 points and expect to be a starter the next season if you’re someone in his position. Maybe he lucks out and it’s not realistic to acquire one. If so, he better be ready to go from week 1 on. 

I think I’m out on Sam at this point. I won’t freak out if they start him next year but I’ll definitely have lowered expectations. I always thought his absolute ceiling was Kirk but I’m not sure he gets there. Too much working against them and not all of it is his fault. That’s part of the life of late round players. He has arm talent and some off schedule ability but he doesn’t look like a franchise QB to me. Just my opinion. The offense stinks. If he was truly The Guy, it wouldn’t stink. They struggle to score TDs. They struggle to sustain drives. His deep ball accuracy is spotty. Being a “gamer” and “tough” is cool but if those are the best words you can use for a QB, you’re usually describing a backup. Really remind me of Gardner Minshew and before you all freak out, I think Minshew is a fine Qb. Just not a guy anybody wants to have long term. Again, just my opinion. If he’s the QB again next year, I hope he proves me wrong. 
 

He really had a chance to guarantee his future by playing well. No one expects wins but a functional offense would suffice. Now, I think his best hope is that 4-13 is too good a record to secure a top QB without a potentially costly trade up. I’m not sure I’m comfortable trading up for a QB based off the history of doing that. However, performances like today are his floor and it’s a really ugly floor. 

1 minute ago, Jumbo said:

It's downright disorienting watching the niners (at least since the second qtr) and the iggles play and comparing it to the level our team plays at.

I’ve been reading some version of this post on ES for about 14 years now. 

Ron Rivera is well liked around the league. That is it. He had better PR. He didn’t do anything 

Just now, Fred Jones said:

I disagree with Grudes - RR did improve the culture.  The horrible DS culture.  What he did not do is draft well/bring in quality talent.  So, he did not improve the winning culture.

 

Two different things IMO.  Under Dan we had both a losing culture and a bad work environment.

I don’t understand how a head football coach can improve culture when the issue with the culture is related to sexual harassment and financial infidelities that didn’t involve football people. Meanwhile he had a trainer involved with a DEA scandal and a first round pick on the verge of literal jail time and still playing every week. 

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen Terry that glum 

He’s been like this for weeks. I think it’s the injury and also just reflecting on how he’s wasted his prime here. 

On the first Hill TD, Achane torched Davis for a would be TD on the other side of the field 

52 still sucks 

You can’t stand by Ron and let him fire JDR and then turn around and fire Ron the next week, guys lol 

Absolute garbage on both sides of the ball. No one should be exempt. They all have had a hand in sucking 

There will be complete wholesale changes this offseason. At this point, I’m expecting that to include QB.

You’re making as many changes as possible to this defense. You’re making as many changes as possible to an offense that struggles to score. 
 

I know some folks have become personally involved with the QB. Prepare your feelings and emotions now before they get hurt. 

When you’ve struggled to score 20 points for the better part of a month, you just gotta run it back so everyone can be “properly evaluated” 

It would really behoove Sam to play his best football the rest of the way and maybe steal a few wins. That way, the team won’t have the opportunity to even be tempted by another QB prospect. I didn’t think so a few weeks ago but 4-13 is truly on the table and I’d imagine getting there would involve more middling/poor play from the QB spot. If we get there, all bets would be off especially with an analytically inclined front office. So it’s asking a lot but he really needs to not just be ok but he needs to play well for his sake. 

1 minute ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Sam is out here running the most pass slanted O in the NFL w/ the worst D in the NFL backing him up.

He is operating in a new and unproven Offensive system, w/ no prior history to its credit that it even works.

We don't allow a run game to exist to take weight off his shoulders, we instead drape a superman cape over them and tell him to try and survive.

 

Its monumentally stupid and is not conductive to building positive traits. I don't think I have seen a QB on this team take this much punishment for this long outside of Ramsey.

 

A lot of young QBs are baby'd when brought into the NFL. They get a limited playbook, or a run focused O.

Sure, there are others that are thrown into the deep end, but none to the extent of Howell. I don't think I have ever seen it to this degree.

He has been pushed over the side of an Aircraft carrier above the Marianas Trench w/ a weight tied to his leg.

What we are asking of him is far from normal for such an inexperienced player.

In terms of sheer volume of throws, I definitely agree. That’s a fair point 

I said 7-10 in the offseason 

Legit have a shot at 4-13. Today was the last game I would have been ok with winning. Now? Keep losing. 
 

And honestly, keeping RR might be the best way to get that. 

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Apparently not in ATL.

??? Not sure what you mean here. 

5 minutes ago, MartinC said:

To state the obvious it’s tough to play QB under the kind of quick pressure Howell is getting. He’s rushing some throws, and he knows if his first read is not there he’s in trouble so he’s forcing some balls. Most of his big plays are when he’s on the move - he’s got almost no chance to work progressions in the pocket. 
 

He’s got the team on his back. Asking a heck of a lot of a QB in his first year starting.

I mean I got you but what first year QB isn’t being asked to put his team on his back? That’s the case for almost every first year starter except for Brock Purdy last year. That’s not a burden exclusive to Sam. He’s going to have succeed in less than ideal circumstances. This will likely be the case to a (hopefully) lesser degree next season. 

Just now, zCommander said:

 

Too bad our D is not capable of holding any team to 10 points. All hell broke loose in the 4th qt and the D couldn't do anything. Btw, both teams didn't score at all in the 3rd qtr. 

They have been held under 21 points 3 out of the last 4. The offense is not doing enough at this point in the season. It’s ok to admit it. 
 

First off, the number 1 target of my ire is Bieninemy. He stinks. I’m sorry. I’m not all that interested in waiting on a 55 year old coordinator learn on the job. If he was truly a great offensive mind, he would have had a HC years ago 
 

This was bad. Very bad. First time they’ve played a good defense and they scored 10. That was concerning. 

32 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

Howell had 300 yards and Dak had 331 yards. Our D gave up 4 TDs to Dallas. That picks 6 never happens if our D or OL actually played at good NFL level. 

Dude, they scored 10 points. The yards are completely irrelevant. Come on. 
 

The offense as a whole sucked today. 

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

But for the first time in forever, we have hope with ownership.  That cannot be said for the Chargers.  That works out for us in two ways:

 

Leave it to Spanos to screw up getting the best guy for the job.  
 

The right guy might opt to not want to work for Spanos.

I know they don’t win but dues he have a rep for being difficult to work with? Haven’t heard that one even when I lived in LA last year. Granted, there’s barely Chargers fans or any real care about them in LA but still lol