BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93

I’m so tired of trying to build towards one of those random 10-7 seasons and then lose in the WC game and miss the playoffs the next season. I want to aim high for once. Average QB play gets you average results. As much as I was never convinced by Sam, I DID NOT want one of those 8-9 win seasons with Jacoby this season. Having a random playoff year that leads to nothing does not interest me anymore. 

59 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The combination of EB’s offense and JDR’s defense has got to be the most predictable, vanilla combination that existed.

I know it’s popular now to bag on Sam and finalize his career as Minshew at best.  🤣.  But I’ll die on the hill that his downfall has much more  to do with everything around him than it does him.  That’s not because I have anything invested him personally, but from everything I’ve digested the entirety of the season from folks smarter than me that break down the tape. An OC’s primary job in developing a QB is to play to their strengths, and get them in a rhythm scheming easy throws, and good luck finding much of that at all the entirety of the season.  It also might help to come up with some level of run game.  There’s a reason that every week this team gets its ass kicked, every opposing defense makes note of how easy this offense is to defend.  

 

Gardner Minshew is a fine QB. That isn’t an insult. He’s just not worthy of being built around. Same with Sam at least in my opinion. Teams without direction will always need solid bridge/backup QBs like Minshew, Jameis, Colt, Heinicke, etc. And I’d bet a ton of money that if you went back and found a Bucs message board or a Browns one, you’d find folks giving similar arguments in defense of Jameis and Colt from back in the day. Sam’s story is not all that unique. A lot of middling/bad QBs got raw deals at various points. I know we think this is the worst situation in the NFL’s history but it’s not. It’s not a fair league. 

17 minutes ago, El Mexican said:

 

As some have said it's impossible to do this type of comparisons.

 

But having seen the '85 Bears and the '91 Eagles I have no doubt they would pose some serious trouble for most modern offenses.

Main reason (besides laxer PI rules) would be LB play. Both teams were loaded on the front seven.

Yeah maybe modern teams would keep them honest with some deep routes here and there but the brutality of the front seven would be a mayor PIA today.

 

Redskins '91 team actually applied this same aggressive attitude with its front seven to the very good Buffalo offense in the '92 SB.

Their receivers were being popped in the middle by our LBs on practically every play, as well as their RBs. Constant pressure on Kelly up front sealed the day.

 

'85 Bears and '91 Eagles are the blueprint of most defenses of the modern era, including the Ray Lewis-led Ravens.

They were that good and were a joy to watch.

A lot of those old school LBs would be smoked in the modern NFL bc they wouldn’t be able to cover LBs or RBs. They’d be facing offenses that are comfortable throwing 40-50+ times a game. 

4 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said:

My point mostly was you can win with a good team and an average QB too.  I agree Top Qb is better value than a LT but it is not the only way to go with our pick.  Our pick has a lot of trade value with our holes to fill. Never thought of Jansen as a Top RT or Moses while he was here hurt, Samuels yes, how was are DEF? Kirk never took us to the promise land and just left another hole we could not fill. 

In the last 5 years, these are the teams with the most wins:

Chiefs - Mahomes

Bills - Allen 

Ravens - Jackson

Packers - Rodgers 

Niners - QB committee so they support your point 

Cowboys - Dak

Saints - Brees

Seahawks - Russ

Eagles - Hurts

Almost all of those teams revolve around their franchise QB. It is really is that important if you want to win sustainably. And you’ll find varying OLine quality between those teams as well. 

24 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

Sorry, BraveontheWarpath93, but you're a little too quick to make that final assessment.  Perhaps with different coaching or more balanced play-schemes, or better O-lines, Howell might develop into a decent QB.  I happen to think that Washington has one of the worst records in developing the few talented players they were able to draft.

 

I just hope Bieniemy's desire for flashy passing numbers to pad his resume, didn't "Ramsey" Howell's development.

I mean he’d have to develop a lot to reach that ceiling I was talking about. 

4 hours ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

I know some were hoping Sam would be the guy but this team was the last team for him to succeed on.

 

Lame duck head coach , ****ty OC, ****ty o-line and ****ty defense.

 

Sam will be backup somewhere and maybe get another shot one day.

He will be the next version of Baker, Jameis, Minshew, Heinicke. 
 

He’ll be a backup for a bit, play well in relief, and might even take a team to a wild card one season. He’ll be a beloved player in every city and on social media because above all else, he’s a never boring underdog. 

9 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

And what did we “get” from drafting RG3?  Russell Wilson went 2 rounds later…  has 2 Super Bowl appearances, 1 ring, and is playing right now. RG3 is now on ESPN..? 

Note: interesting. Since you brought up the 2012 draft, Ryan Tannehill went 8 that year and Nick Foles went after Wilson in the third round.  He currently has a statue outside the Linc!

🫠

Happy holidays friend lol. We think very differently 

13 minutes ago, lovemaskins said:

Since you seem to be the only other grown up in the room currently, I’ll respond. I am anxiously awaiting a competent front office to maximize personnel management. Would it be great to pick #1 or 2 in April, yup, and can I still enjoy the game today and cheer my arse off, you bet.  
 

But, the actual percentage of selecting a game changing QB anywhere in the top round is a crap shoot at best and history shows that number 1 and number 2 draft picks are not weighted to “find” that franchise guy.  Currently, the only QB I can think of in the league now who went 1, that is a stud franchise QB is Joe Burrow.  Every other QB, maybe I’m missing a couple, have been picked all over the first round or later.  Jalen went 2nd round, Dak 5th, Wilson 3rd, Jackson pick 32 to name a few.  
 

Overwhelming evidence supports competent team building and a plan combined with savvy coaching and player development.  So to get all in knots over a game or 2 just doesn’t statistically translate into organizational success.  Which is the basis of the opposing argument. 
 

on top of that, folks are rooting for it as if it does, which evidence doesn’t support. Instead, I choose to root for wins today. It’s like the guy who plays golf and gets stressed out he didn’t shoot his handicap. He spent $50 bucks and 5 hours to be more miserable n life instead of enjoying the fresh air, exercise, and beer with buds. That’s a waste of a round and a good beer!

The Redskins beat the Seahawks in a meaningless game late in 2011 and that was basically the difference between drafting RG3 at 2 straight up and having to trade. 
 

I’m going to guess you cannot tell me anything about that game or how good that win made you feel. You’re entitled to your opinion but there’s no need for deep analysis on this. It’s better for the franchise to lose out. 70% of this team will not be on the next playoff roster here. If not much more. 

lol i went and re-read this thread and man, this was a beat by beat re-enactment of when RG3 got hooked for Kirk

”The play calling is different!”

”Why don’t you call those plays for Robert!”

Good ol ES, man. 

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So Rivera hinges his whole season on hey I found this franchise its QB.  And then benches him two weeks in a row and makes the case that the journeyman QB is the better QB.  Make it make sense from Rivera's point of view?

It’s truly insane to think about. I know he knows football but I’m not sure he’s all that smart. 

If I say what i think about Ron Rivera, I’ll be banned and I’ll probably be sent directly to hell 

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Terry looked better with Taylor and Taylor is garbage.  Our best players quit, coaches did, everyone did, Sam couldn't save that neither could Brisset.  Thinking of what might have been for closure, you won't get that watching Parson murder homie at home week 18.

Dude i don’t care about the other players lol 

I just need to see if Sam is that bad or not lol. Right now, it looks like it’s him. He’s bailing out of clean pockets and missing reads. If I see Brisset come in and play competently, it’s a better data point on Sam. You’re overthinking it. The roster is absolutely cooked from a big picture view. That was known weeks ago. 

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

I cannot argue with you over if it's Sam or not because there aren't enough games left for defenses to catchup and show why Brisset is the backup. 

 

I'm not faliin for him coming out of nowhere and defenses looking unprepared for him, been there done that.

It really has nothing to do with Brisset. It’s about Sam. The entire season is/was about Sam. I need a definitive answer. We should all want one. 

Just now, srtman04 said:

I think he's hurt

No he’s healthy. He’s just not playing against the worst offense in the NFL bc he’s even worse 

1 minute ago, zCommander said:

 

Are you Ron and think there is still a chance for a playoff spot 

 

You got me but it’s time to admit your last name is Howell as well 

Guys, the Jets are WAY more talented than us. If you take the best 5 guys on the field, 4 are wearing green. Easily. No debate. 
 

They legitimately are a QB away 

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Why does it matter if the whole thing is getting nuked? 

 

He's gone too, everyone is.

Bc I can definitely say it’s Sam at that point and the debate is over. There’s still an open question. 

At this point, I am curious to see what Brisset looks like and if he could make this look functional or if the entire operation is THAT bad. 

Jets defense is elite. That’s why WSH had zero chance to win this game. It’s really unfair against such an embarrassing offense 

1 minute ago, Hdf561 said:

So what you are saying is this franchise ruined yet another promising young talented quarterback by not addressing one of the basic tenets of football? I’m shocked 

He’s a fifth rounder. Unfortunately that was likely gonna be his outcome. He was lucky to get a QB1 job without a competition in the first place. 

Just now, zCommander said:

 

No QB can survive and make plays behind this line. You might want to look at who is really at fault here. Also play calling. 

He’s literally bailing out of clean pockets. The announcers are mentioning it too. He’s cooked and will likely be replaced soon 

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

That really wasn't my point.

 

My point is to question whether or not he's actually a viable subject matter expert who knows what he's talking about.

 

You listen to SMEs in order to get their, wait for it, expert opinion.  But if the guy didn't draft a good QB, gave up on Keenum who led the team to the NFC Championship game, only to sign Kirk to a ridiculous contract, is he really an expert?

 

Just because you had a job doesn't mean you were good at it.

 

It's the same argument I use with Jay. Yeah, he was a head coach.  But he was a bad one.  So why is he considered an expert on anything?  Spielman was a GM.  But not a very good one.  Why is he considered an expert, specifically on picking a QB as a GM, when he failed at that rather miserably?

I really have no opinion about Spielman but this all incredibly harsh. You’re acting like he was Matt Millen. He was a perfectly fine GM and had plenty of real world experience building a decent team pretty much year in and year out. Again, we’re just talking about analysis, not giving him a job. 
 

3 minutes ago, mac8887 said:

This would be the process nfl style. I dont think the other owners would be ok with a season or 2 long tank job

The rosters turn over too much in this league to do this. For example, almost the entire draft class from ‘24 would be gone or on 2nd contracts by the time the team would be “ready” in his scenario 

1 hour ago, TheGoodBits said:

Try to get that top 2-4 pick this year and trade back with an emphasis on future picks. Trade Terry and Allen, intentionally hold off on signing any meaningful FAs this offseason, roll with Sam again next season. We are (thankfully) in year 1 of a needed 2 year nosedive, followed by a 2-3 year rebuild after that. Anytime after this offseason that you have a great opportunity to do so, you can go get your QB. But I want us picking number 1 next year. 

The GM will be fired halfway through your plan. This doesn’t work in the NFL 

26 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I can point you to the Bills, they sucked for awhile before Sean McDermott and Josh Allen turned them around. Same thing can happen in Washington but it's gonna take rebuilding the offensive line and the back half of the defense. Look at what's going on in Houston too, they are turning things around with a new head coach and rookie QB paired with a bunch of no-names like Nico Collins, Noah Brown, Singletary and others. The Texans made some good free agent signings, got a coach from a winning organization and picked the right QB in the draft, combined it with a pretty weak schedule in a weak division and theyre in the playoff hunt. I believe our roster is as good or better than the Texans but our coaching staff is not even close. The NFL wants parity so it shouldn't be too difficult to get back into the mix quickly given the right decisions from ownership. Sounds easy huh? 

I agree with your points, the turnaround needs to happen quicker than 3-5 years. 

That’s my point. It’s not about the team. It’s the people involved. Every time you start changing any combination of HC/GM/QB, it starts a new cycle in my mind that is separate from whoever came before. 

3 minutes ago, TheGoodBits said:

As much as the allure of drafting a top 5 QB is interesting, I don't think it's what will pay off most of the team longterm. A multiyear rebuild after a painful multiyear deconstruction of the roster is what will pay off the most. We're going to get worse before we get better.

Can someone point me to a franchise that sucked for 3+ seasons, allowed the GM/HC/QB to see it through, and then eventually got good? 
 

Long rebuilds don’t happen in the NFL. Execs/coaches usually get 2 years to show signs of progress.