ZoEd

I agree with you as long as the fighters are allowed to fight to win and not just fight to put on a show. I was hypothesising, making a what if or hmmm isn't it possible. I didn't say that the fights are staged or that foul play is involved. I was making the point that anytime money is involved the potential is there. I was making the point that there are times I feel like the show is more important than winning, again no one seems to want to take on Joe Rogans comment about losing and putting on a good show is as important as winning. As much as I love this sport and what the UFC has done with it I still have reservations about the direction it is going. I love the "science" of the sport and the dedication these guys have to have to be at the top. I just want it to stay that way and not become a three ring circus where people are showing up just to see the blood and the fighters find themselves in a situation where the only way they're going to get a big payday is by either knocking someone out or getting knocked out just to make fans happy. I honestly can't believe that none of you have this fear.

Actually I'm not really saying it I'm just questioning it. I actually gave credit to Silva and I realize getting hit in the face will change your tune real quick. However, don't you think there's a chance that fighters are encouraged to put on a good show as opposed to fighting to win? Look how glorified the Griffin/Bonner fight was made. Dana all but blew the both of them in the ring. Was it great fight? It was an excellent brawl but I wouldn't necessarily call it a great MMA fight. Mixed Martial Arts, not backyard brawl. When Forrest came back after getting KTFO by Jardine I was watching the fight with some friends and all they could talk about was how scared he looked and how cautious he was being. Duh, fighting with wreckless abandon is what got him knocked out. What I saw was a smart MMA fighter utilizing leg kicks and some ground game to control and win a fight. Boring, compared to the old Forrest yes. Smart, most definitely. I'm just afraid "putting on a show" is going to become more important than fighting a good technical, smart fight because that's what gets the WWE, I mean UFC fans out of their seats. I'm all for a war in the octagon but don't put guys in there for the sake of putting on a show. Put guys in there that deserve to be in there. Let the fighters fight.

Not really. I just wonder if sometimes the fights are "orchestrated" to put on a show. In the WWE it's the ref quietly orchestrating the action telling the wrestlers when to keep it going and when to wrap it up. By no means am I saying that this is going on in the UFC but I often wonder if pre fight the fighters are prompted to fight a certain way to put on a show. Heath Herring said after the Kongo fight "I thought he was going to stand with me so we could put on a show for the fans". I know and understand completely that this is fighting for entertainment purposes but why would anyone fight another fighters game just to put on a show? I question seasoned veterans suddenly going away from their gameplan when it was obviously working early in the fight. For example, Hendo against Silva. I know Silva causes matchup problems but I find it difficult to imagine Hendo suddenly thinking it would be a good idea to stand and strike with Silva. Why suddenly go away from the dirty boxing or the clinch? I think the UFC has it's golden boys that they want to pimp and may create matchups in that persons favor. Anytime you throw money at guys for putting on a good show you're going to get fighters doing stupid **** to get paid. I just don't understand it and think it kind of tarnishes the legitimacy of the orginization and the sport of MMA. :2cents:

You ****s made it impossible for me to pass up, I'm glad you did though. :applause: I look at it like this, if I would have went to the bar or casino to watch it I would have probably spent a lot more so I bought it.

Did anyone notice the shot GSP took that wobbled him a little? If Fitch wasn't so damn spent I think he could have followed up with something and at least made it fight. That was a war though, an absolute freaking war. Fitch is the toughest SOB I think I've ever seen. It's not like he just survived either, he survived and kept trying to fight. Great freaking fight.

Glad I got the PPV tonight, still think Dana's a punk. So far some great fights. McDonald showed some guts but Maia is a bad biatch. K-FLo, you are the man. Glad you won but I'm here to tell you Huerta is the future of the UFC and that division. Still hate Kongo, people get all worked up because the dude is jacked but he still hasn't impressed me. Lesnar, WOW! He just mauled Herring. I don't understand if he's been training subs why he didn't use them. I don't care if he wants to beat a guy up or not, take the sub when it's there. He showed a total lack of class IMO though. Leave the WWE antics out of the ring Brock. It was also pretty stupid of him to push Herring in the back after the first round. I could understand if Herring had been dissing him or something but from the interviews I saw Herring showed nothing but class and respect towards Brock. Mauled him, that dude is a freak of ****ing nature. WOW! I'll admit it, he's legit. I want him to fight Kongo next and after he dismantles his punkass give him the winner of Nog and Mir. As for the GSP/Fitch, promised the wife I'd wait until she gets home to watch it. I'll be back in a little bit.

I've been trying to downplay this card in my head because I don't feel like dropping 40 bones on another fight and you guys aren't making it easy for me at all. They need to start combining these freaking things so I can send my kids to college. :doh:

I wasn't a huge GSP fan a while back but the way he completely out wrestled Hughes, manhandled him, I've changed my stance on him a lot. If he goes in there and destroys fitch he's definitely made a case for P4P IMO. If not P4P most well rounded fighter to step in the Octagon for quite sometime. If he destroys Fitch, not merely wins but destroys, he needs to step up in weight if he's comfortable and fight Silva. If he does this and wins there's no question in my mind who the best P4P guy is. I'm a huge supporter of Fedor for P4P but if GSP can go up in weight and beat a guy like Silva it would be hard not to give him the nod. David and Goliath if you will. lovetoaster, my thing with Lesnar is why the hell are they giving him fights against guys like Mir when he's just cracked the UFC? Mir is a contender (in the UFC anyway) for the HW belt. Mir beating Lesnar didn't make him a contender, he was considered one before that due to the lack of depth in the HW division but a contender none the less. I think they're matching him up with Herring because they want to see him smash somebody. Herring is definitely a one trick pony and he'll whine his ass off if Brock doesn't stand in there and bang with him. Brock will take him down and pound the **** out of him. I like Brock and was excited to see him doing MMA, I just think he should pay his dues like everyone else and not be put on a pedestal because he's a star somewhere else. #99QBkiller, you're right about Mazzagatti he stood them up way too soon and there's no way the shots to the back of the head were intentional. If you're in the process of throwing a punch and guy moves his head and you land on the back then how is that the punchers fault. I was pretty pissed off about that as well. I just want to see Brock treated like everyone else and pay his dues that's all. He has even won a fight in the UFC for cripes sake. Hey, maybe they see something in his training that they feel gives him a shot at fighting the top tier guys. I dunno but I still get the feeling they're using him as a gimmick. As for K Flo, love the dude, love his heart and his testicular fortitude (had to avoid saying I love his balls ) but I think Huerta's going to beat him up pretty bad.

We're cool brother, not trying to create a bunch of drama. I do realize that I've been on a Dana bashing crusade lately but with him being the President he has to shoulder brunt of the blame. As for tomorrows card the only fight that interests me is the K Flo/Huerta fight. Other than that GSP should dominate and I have no interest in seeing Herring/Lesner. Until Lesner proves he belongs with the MMA elite he's nothing more than an attempt at getting PPV $$ fromt he WWF fans. I may be wrong but that's my opinion. I've spent way too much money of PPV this year, they need to combine some of these fights onto one card instead of trying to squeeze every dime out of people.

Agreed 110%, you just summed up what I've been ****ing about for two days in two little paragraphs, thanks for taking my thunder. Exactly! Again, the other half of my complaint with the way the UFC is handling the sport. It's all about the "show" and not about the "sport". I know to make $ you have to put on a good show but when the show becomes more important than the sport itself then you've gone astray. I love the fact that the UFC has gone mainstream and it's given MMA a huge shot in the arm but there comes a point when you have to reel it in a little bit and respect the purity of the sport putting the best fighters in the ring no matter what kind of show they put on. Speaking of that, it often makes me wonder when you see guys go away from their gameplan if the fights may be orchestrated a little bit. Joe Rogan said it best when he said "it doesn't matter if you lose in the UFC as long as you put on a good show you'll be back". So, if the fight is not living up to the "hype" lets go away from what will win you fight so that you can pump up a rematch or put on a show for the company. It's about winning the fight, isn't it? Isn't that what MMA is all about? I guess not, I guess it's about going in the ring and getting KTFO so the crowd feels like they got their moneys worth keeping them coming back for more and dropping down the $$ for the PPV. Great business but do we really want the sport to go the direction of the WWF? lovetoaster I didn't bash Dana just for you. :applause:

Obviously this is directed at me, PM is your friend. Won't make a difference but I respect your opinion so you never know. Anyway, sorry dude but the thread topic is ANYTHING MMA so it's relevant. If you don't want to read it pass over it, it's really not that difficult. If people want to discuss it then it's adding to the topic. Sorry if it annoys you, I'll try to curb my dislike for the douchebag so you can enjoy the thread. :applause:

That's the WWF fans that know nothing about MMA. It's the type that IMO Dana is pandering to so he can make more money. That's what happens when you put the $$ before the sport. There's my Dana bash for the day. :applause:

Dana is the President of the UFC, the coach so to speak. Who else should shoulder the blame? You don't think Dana has influence over Silva?

It's definitely a tough fight to call and there are few holes in either fighters game, if they're on their game. You know, I used to not like Mir but since his return from the accident he's grown on me. I think he's one of the smartest if not the smartest HW's ever. His technique is flawless and he has a decent chin. If he has his cardio where it needs to be for a five round fight he's going to give Nog a war. Both of these guys are tough as nails and neither will go down easy. You're right though, it's going to be interesting to hear Dana talk about how Mir deserves a shot at the belt when other fighters have been waiting in line. Don't be suprised if Lesner wins against Herring that he'll climb to the top real quick like. I think Dana has a huge man crush on Brock and is trying his damnest to pull in that WWF crowd. There I go with Dana again! :doh:

Not saying I could run it better or even that there's a better way. My complaint is how Dana handles the fighters and the way he orchestrates the matchups. Dana should be thankful these guys put him on their backs and took him to the top. Without the Coutures, Chucks, Hughes', and Tito's there would be no UFC. People tune in to watch fights, not Dana White. Dana acts like he is the UFC and he aint nothing without the fighters. He needs to put the best guys in the ring but he doesn't. He picks and chooses who he thinks will put on a "show" and not who deserves to be there. If the NFL didn't put out a 16 game schedule but instead picked matchups week by week to put on the best "show" how F'd in the A would that be? MMA is a sport and should be treated as such. Dana likes to dangle the cheese in front of your nose stringing the fans along until he feels like it's time to put the best guys in the ring. Call it what it is, it's a fight for a chance at the belt or it's just a fight. You never know with Dana. Look how many posts there are in this forum where the fans are left guessing who the next fight should be or who deserves a shot. We know who the top 5 to 10 guys are but a lot of the fights the UFC puts on leaves you wondering why this guy or that guy is fighting. This isn't the WWF, cut out all the dramatized bull**** and put the best guys in the ring for a chance at the belt. Do it kind of like the old tournament style where you take the top 10 guys and have them faceoff until there's a fight for the championship. Quit putting guys like Machida in there with ******* and let him fight someone in contention so we can see what the guy is made of. I'm just tired of the watered down bull**** Dana is pulling. I want my $$ worth when I fork out $40 bucks for a PPV. Now, I won't bash Dana anymore, today.

This is exactly the way it should be solved. Not enough of this in the other orginization. (I'm going to quit bashing Dana, it's pointless and he doesn't deserve that much of my attention) This fight could go either way and it's hard to give either one a clear cut advantage over the other. Maybe Arlovski standing and Barnett on the ground? I dunno, tough call either way. Barnett has been banging long enough to get a shot and Arlovski proved in his last fight that he's back at the top of his game. Either way, I'm excited to see this fight. Much moreso than watching Lesner/Herring.

Come on herrmag, King Dana said Fedor isn't even a top 5 HW.

Dana, is that you? Problem is this isn't McDonalds. You're not selling burgers or cars or merchandise. You're not providing a service. Human beings, I know that's questionable, are risking their health and sometimes even their lives to entertain. Dana treats them like kings when they're at the top and when they're not they're gum on the bottom of his shoe. It's no different than football or any other sport; when dealing with human beings you should always approach it with dignity and respect and from what's I've read on Sherdog and other MMA forums Dana doesn't do that. There's really no way to know for sure as fans how Dana treats his employee's but more than one fighter has questioned his tactics. Is this good business? Probably, but that doesn't make it right. I can polish a turd, coat it in chocolate and sell it as a candybar. I made money off it so is it good business? Not for the person eating it but I'll take my money to the bank.

Agree with you on Tito but he still did a lot for the UFC and Dana needs to respect the guys who go out there and bang, no not Jenna, and go through the training and pain of fighting. Dana is a suit that needs to respect what these guys do. They are making his ass rich. Arlovski, well I think that he looked weak in his rematch against Silvia and put on one of the most boring fights ever in the UFC. Because of that I think Dana put him on the back burner and started trying to push him out. During his fight with Affliction they said he mentioned Dana jerking him around, giving him fights he'd start preparing for a guy and Dana would pull the fight. Evidently this happened more than a few times. Arlovski has a big fan base and Dana made him out to be a punk. Arlovski was a monster in his fight with Affliction and looked to be back at the top of his game. I think a lot of fighters get turned off by Dana and don't want to fight for him and that's why you see some of them fall off. Like I said, there's more to it than I think the average fan knows.

According to the lawsuit the old owners of Pride have against the UFC that's not the case. Dana and the boys promised to keep it going and that's the reason they sold it to the UFC instead of to investors offering more money. I don't think Randy stabbed the UFC in the back at all. He found out from friends, probably Chuck, that fighters were making more money than him to fight. Dana still maintains that Randy was "one of" the highest paid fighters in the UFC. Randy claims that Dana was and still is giving fighters more on the backside via % of PPV, marketing and advertising than he was getting. Randy was a pioneer in this sport and was still drawing huge numbers for the UFC and IMO he should have been paid hansomely for it. You think Rich Franklin or Forrest should make more than Randy in a fight? It's no different than NFL players signing a contract and asking for more when some punk ass rookie gets a big payday. No way in hell anyone, except for maybe Chuck, should be making more money per fight than Randy. I agree with you about Tito, he's not what he used to be but that doesn't give Dana the right to turn his back on him the way he did. Dana seems to be the type to use a brother up and when his talent starts to dwindle toss him aside. His ego is out of control and I think seeing Big John retiring just to move over to Affliction is very telling; moreso than all the whining from washed up fighters and outcasts. A lot of the old school guys are starting to go elsewhere for their fix and I think there has to be more of a reason for that than just for the hell of it. Don't you think? Fedor, all I heard was Dana wouldn't allow him to compete in anything except the UFC. Dana does that with all his fighters, he wants to own them. I agree it's smart to protect your investment but come on, it's grappling. Yea you could break a limb or hurt something but you can do that in training camp as well. Dana just likes to be a control freak.

Don't get me wrong I love watching the up and comers. It doesn't matter to me as long as it's a good fight. My biggest ***** is the "one belt" nights with nothing on the line for most of the under cards. The WEC card the other night was exciting for me; three belts on the line and all were pretty decent bouts. Dana just tries to spread it out for the $$ and I admit that's business saavy but sooner or later people are going to get sick of Dana's bull****. I guess I already am, he's just a douchebag. To caveat on that, Dana and the Fritata's (sp) have done big things for the sport but Dana is as shady as they come. Here's a few Disbanding PRIDE after promising the owners they weren't going to. Banning certain fighters from the UFC because Dana doesn't like them; Matt Lindland. Put the best freaking fighters in ring and get over your freaking ego. Stabbing Couture in the back. Not signing Fedor because he wanted to "own" him. Treating Arlovski the way he did. Treating Tito the way he did. Is that enough? Dana has an ego and needs to get over himself or the big names are going to start going elsewhere.

Agreed, I've never understood the reasoning behind that anyway. I mean, I know you don't want every fight to go five rounds due to time constraints but "champion" caliber guys or top five guys should go the five IMO. Maybe they should look at fighters who are fighting for a chance at the belt going 5. If you can't go five you shouldn't be allowed to go for the belt anyway IMO. Still, these watered down cards the UFC keeps throwing out there are pretty F'ing annoying. Especially the ones that don't even have a belt on the line. It really sucks for suckers like me who hate to miss a PPV. Dana puts just enough bait on the hook to keep idiots like me coming back for more. I guess it's good business but sooner or later suckers like me are going to get tired of it and stop paying. Matter of fact, I'm not buyin this next one; GSP will win and Brock isn't enough of a circus freak for me to tune in. Definitely not worth the $$, I think Dana is hoping to cash in on the WWF crowd.

Didn't say they were the best fighters, it was one hell of a fight though. Also, anyone else feel that putting multiple belts on the line on one card is much more exciting than watching UFC's watered down cards?

Wasn't able to watch the WEC card until last night but man was it a good one. Great fights all around IMO. Good to see Stann finally get beat, manhandled actually. I've never been a huge fan of his anyway so it was especially nice. Not taking anything away from the dudes power but IMO he telegraphs everything he's going to do. As soon as he's about to launch one of those rights his feet stop completely and he throws the exact same combo. I told my nephew before the fight that he drops his guard everytime he throws a punch and it caught up with him in the end. The Condit fight was arguably one of the best fights so far this year. Little biased IMO though. Did anyone else notice how anytime Miro got on top he was told to fight or get stood up? Even when he was working elbows and doing damage the ref threatened to stand him up and even did so on one occassion. WTF? Seems the WEC had an agenda and Condit winning was part of it. I dunno, but I was getting really frustrated with the way the ref was handling that fight.

You sir are absolutely correct, his standup is horrendous. Nick has a chin though and that'll get you a long way in this game especially for a sub specialist. If you can take some licks and hang in there long enough to lure your guy into a grapple then you'll win a lot of fights. What Nick needs to do is lay off the freaking weed and get a good boxing coach. If he improves his standup he's going to be tough to beat. Him and his brother are freaking scrappy little ****s.