KDawg

So, in the spirit of the Bruce vs. Snyder debate this is how I sum up who to believe: How do I know Bruce is lying? In situations that would benefit him financially he’d absolutely not tell the truth. How do I know Snyder is lying? His lips are moving.

The media offers opinions on everything. I don’t see why this situation should be different. You could say because he’s an amateur athlete but that is no longer the case. Guys getting paid on NIL are no longer amateurs. They are professionals. high level collegiate ball is semi-pro football now.

Which is exactly why that could be the way it goes.

Then roll with Howell and Heinicke for a season. No matter how physically painful that could be for us.

I have no desire to run it back with Wentz even at a reduced rate. We tried. Didn’t work as anticipated. Not worth trying to carry on with it. Save the cap space, put it towards a better QB or other positions.

I think that is going to wind up being the best move for us given the situation and the available quarterbacks. Having two firsts in ‘24 would then allow us to make a move for Williams or Maye if Howell doesn’t pan out. Problem is this roster is built for some success right now. I don’t like some of the pieces and I think we are under talented as a few spots but overall it’s a good baseline roster. Lacking high end talent but no real horrible sags. Clean the OL up a little and this team can win asap as long as Payne is back (though I wish we saw more of Mathis). But the QB can be something that holds us back. But I like the idea of Howell actually getting a shot.

But they’re in a place where they need a spark to get them in. They won’t get in as is. Doesn’t hurt to play Ridder. Also let’s them figure out what the plan for next season is. Smart move.

I watched FSU/UF condensed game on YouTube earlier this morning... Richardson seems to overall have decent pocket presence, he's fast as a runner, good arm (flick of the wrist arm strength) and absolutely goes through some reads. He is a prototype for the QB position as well. Mechanically he got shakey at times. But this guy is going to go early in the draft.

How I rank them vs. how the pro scouts do... I think is going to be different. They put a lot of weight on physical traits I've noticed. Still, it will be hard to not go Young at the top. My guess for pro rankings: Young Richardson Stroud Levis Hooker (despite the injury) I'll re-evaluate as we hear more. But that's my guess. I haven't been watching these guys much yet this year (as far as watching as individual players, I've watched games). Have some things going on football wise that I am prepping for which is taking a lot of my time.

He will likely go mid first. Young, Stroud, Levis, Richardson would be my prediction. Could see Richardson leap a bunch of them, too. Houston may be inept enough to go for him vs. Young, but I doubt it. Young will be a Texan.

Does he mention who the sale may be to? I assume the Bezos/JayZ group.

The OL does suck, QB is an issue, OC is and has been fine, DC got his mojo back from the summer’s events, HC is fine but clock management stinks, Just Sweat is overrated on the DL, Jamin Davis is solid, Fuller and St Juste are good, Tress Way is still one of our best players

but this is the concern. The NFL cycle recycles the backups in the league at a rapid pace. If you are a lower round rookie and don’t get a chance to play your job is going to be in jeopardy the following season. Howell, despite my belief that he’s a good quarterback, is facing an uphill battle. I figure Wentz is gone. That leaves Howell and Heinicke. Heinicke is a free agent, but I’m willing to bet they are going to re-sign him. Turner loves him. Rivera seems to love him. The locker room loves him. So let’s assume going into April we have Heinicke and Howell. First off, as a Howell fan that even scares me. Howell won’t have taken a snap and Heinicke is… well, Heinicke. If we do something crazy like draft Anthony Richardson (I have a feeling and I don’t love it) that puts him as an automatic roster lock. Who is the odd man out? The QB who hasn’t taken a snap or the guy who has all the moxie a human can ask for? If they don’t attempt to address QB Rivera is going to get raked over the coals the second something goes on wrong. Which… it’s the media so it is what it is. But that’s not something any organization wants. Howell has a tough road ahead. If they do it purely based on a play vs. play competition with Heinicke I think Howell can beat him out next year (no, not this year for those of you who struggle with nuanced conversation) but I just don’t see it happening that way. If coaches trust a guy like they do with Heinicke it’s tough to convince them to move on. My hope is someone offers Heinicke more than he’s worth and he leaves for greener pastures and then we add a vet or a rookie or one of each to go with Howell. And either can be a high end guy, too. I just don’t want to see them throw in the towel on Howell. Brad Kaaya was never a first rounder. The other two either. I’m not sure why you’re talking like Howell stunk in college. Strange take.

And yet Howell was a much better quarterback than Richardson. Interesting, right? Malik Willis was shorter and played at Liberty. His slide wasn’t all that shocking to me.

What non sense? I’m missing something. Who said anything about Howell right now? Little confused. Are people not reading the messages and just responding?

Absolutely. Though the instinct will be there the options to get out of trouble are different.

Who is pining for Howell? If you mean me, I'll wait for proof of that statement.

You're missing the point like it's a Nolan Ryan fastball. If they bring someone in, Howell is toast. Though, I'd hope if they bring someone in it's Heinicke vs. Howell. But Turner/Rivera won't turn on Heinicke.

As long as they don't find someone else to bring in, yes. I have a (maybe bad? Not sure, haven't watched him close enough yet) feeling they are going to target Anthony Richardson in the mid first.

He won’t be named the starter outright until they run out of options. But if Rivera is the HC and Turner the OC you can expect he will be the 2 almost without question. So the question is: Do they find someone they like as the 1 or is Heinicke the default 1 and Howell the 2? Going to be interesting.

It’s kid gloving. His draft stock fell because of his situation. The year before he would have been considered a high end pick. The point being he doesn’t get the chance to beat out TH if his reps consist of practice squad and 2nd/third team reps. Just the way the NFL works.

And you could be right. But do you know that in most cases 5th round rookie QBs who don't see the field generally are replaced relatively quickly? If we sign another QB (draft or FA) and keep Heinicke next season, Howell is pretty much DOA in DC. He could wind up being the exception and not the rule, sure. But generally he would be replaced because he didn't get the chance due to organizations kid gloving them and then never letting the development materialize due to the way quarterback cycles are in the NFL.

Are you aware that Howell's OL in his senior season made this OL look like all-pros? Guy has nothing but experience dealing with a bad OL. In fact, most of the reason he fell was because he had to totally change his game because the OL was so bad. So instead of throwing for ridiculous yards and TDs he changed up and nearly rushed for 1k + had a decent season in the air. If TH wasn't here Howell would be in and we'd be seeing what he has. That's not the situation. Heinicke is here. Howell sits and waits and pays attention while Heinicke has the reigns.

If Heinicke wasn't on the team Howell would have been playing and could be doing some of the same things. But then again, every party saying, "Wentz would/wouldn't have done this..." or "Heinicke is the only reason this..." have all completely written off Howell... Which is interesting. I still don't know if Howell WOULD have been able to replicate the Heinicke results. Or if Wentz could if this was the way it was when he was the QB. But I know Heinicke has. For whatever kind of witchcraft that is being used, he has done it. And no one can take that away from him.

Most of these guys actually don't tick the prototype boxes, either. Willis was 6-1 and played at Liberty. Zach Wilson was reportedly a character concern coming in. For guys who are talented but not ultra talented that is generally a tick off the ol' prototype box. If they are ultra talented it depends on their level of character concern for flags to matter. Trey Lance went to ND State. D1AA powerhouse for sure, but there are always questions about prospects from that level. Josh Allen is one, yup. Lamar Jackson's only knock was people thought he should be a receiver coming out, so he fell. Ticked the prototype boxes but many didn't think he was a QB so he really doesn't even fit the mold (although you could argue he does and the scouts were morons and I'd buy that argument). Mahomes fits. In retrospect I'm actually surprised more people didn't see more value in him going into the draft. Wentz fits except for the ND State thing. RG3 fits except for his weight. I'll concede this one though. Russell Wilson is 5-11 as you noted, so he isn't the prototypical guy. Newton fits. Tim Tebow... I guess I'll concede though reluctantly. He had all the tools but not many people thought he had a chance due to his personality (not that he was a character issue just... rubbed some folks wrong) and he wasn't great as a passer. Trevor Lawrence certainly fits the bill. He was #1 overall. But he was there to begin with. Andrew Luck in 2012 was a prototype. He was #1 overall. EJ Manuel fits the bill. He went 16th and really had no business there. Blake Bortles didn't have the wheels to fit the bill, but overall is close to prototype (missing the athletic part for this discussion) and he went third overall. Jameis Winston fits the bill. He went first overall. I realize Richardson is much more raw than some of the guys I've listed. But these prototypical QBs go quick.