Poll: Draft Grade?

[Major Harris]

Originally posted by skin-n-vegas

At a minimum, so far it's a B.

You are incorrect on all points and you show that you are actually comparable to a dead blade of grass or possibly a bowl of hair in your football IQ.

That;s my opinion of your opinion.

I see you have now added enough posts to upgrade you to rookie.

Can you point out 5 specifics of positive or even neutral posts to us that would prove that you arent simply a troll?

i find it funny how some people equate post totals to football knowledge. i wonder what gibbs' avatar is:whoknows:

anyway, here are my .02:

before this draft, it was commonly known that our areas of need were as follows: CB, DL (esp. DE), and WR. we filled our CB need......and that's it!

we draft a qb that won't play for a couple of years if the plans go right. i know that there are reasons for this, i just think we gave up too much and ignored more glaring needs.

we neglected the need for a pass rushing DE for what seems like the 25th year in a row.......chris canty is available and we take a fullback. a FULLBACK. gibbs doesn't use a fullback.

then w/ our 7th pick, we take another fullback. i just don't get it.

i like the mccune pick, the rogers pick i like, i feel like we avoided the big splash, sexy pick w/ williams that, if gibbs were not around, i'm sure we would've made. however, as good a pick as that is, it is an indictment of our offseason that we even had to pick this guy. if we could keep our own, we would've been more flexible at the 9 spot.

i know gibbs has a plan, and i hope that he's right, but we had needs that were not filled.

[Bonez3]

A complete sucess.

Has anyone read or noticed that we drafted on top of positions. What I mean is that we drafted QB when we have one established. We drafted two FB's. Why?

A healthy competiton will be taking place at Redskin Park this summer. Ramsey will be exposed for what he's worth one way or another. However he does is debatable. What is not debateable to me is Jason Campbell's ability. He probably will be the best QB in this and next years draft.

Losing a pick next year for a position that, at this point, is the most important in the NFL and we dont have a bona fide winner is brilliant.

The Skin's made a move to the playoffs for next year (which they were going to make anyway) with Rogers/McCune, but definitely to a championship caliber franchise again with Campbell.

Stay tuned!

[MCnDaHouse]

I think one of the big complaints last year was poor QB play. How many times did Brunell underthrow or overthrow wide open WR's??? How many times did Ramsey do the same thing as well as throw interceptions directly to the defense???

I think we needed a good QB prospect. However I do have concerns that the #25 pick was not the right place. Look how far Aaron Rodgers fell. I would think that Campbell would have fallen further. I believe a DE or WR would have been better at this spot. I really wish we could have traded this pick and gotten a mid 2nd round and a 3rd rounder. Then we could have gotten perhaps a DE or WR and Campbell.

Hopefully DL will be addressed in Free Agency and our QB and WRs will be better with an improved OL (Rabach at C and return of Jansen).

I rated us a B-.

MC :logo:

[McMetal]

No Wide Receiver. No Defensive End. A QB we needed like a hole in the head...

"D" - 'nuff said.

[G-Prime]

Our draft sucked. period. I'm ok with the Rogers pick, but with Mike Williams there it should have been a no brainer.. And this QB pick is disgusting. We gave up to many picks for 1 guy who is unproven, and only had 1 good college season!.

Friggen stupid.

[TMat184]

Mccune,White, and Broughton are good late picks. We blew the first round basically. #9 Mike Williams, #25 Marlin Jackson and I'd be one ecstatic Skins fan. As it is now, I give us a D

[NewGibbsEra]

Originally posted by Gibbs4Life

D- The only thing that keeps it from being an F is carlos rogers.

1st. Carlos rogers is the best cb in the draft, but considering we passed on mike williams to get him it is a horrible pick. We have the #3 defense in the league, and 28th or so offense and we got rid of our starting recievers but instead of getting the best reciever in the draft we go with carlos rogers.

1st. Jason Campbell, possibly the worst pick in the draft for what we gave up. We have basically sacrificed next years draft for a guy thats going to sit on the bench and might not ever play. We might have been in a position to draft kiwinuka next season or maybe even matt lienhart, now it doesnt matter. We also passed up on the best tightend in the draft in heath miller. Someone that might actaully help our offense instead of sit on the sideline.

4th. Some fullback we dont need. Instead of picking up jerome mathis, a wonderful looking prospect with sick juke moves and chris canty who is a beastly end who could have been a 1st rouder if he wasnt injured. We didnt pick up either one of these guys in positions of need, instead we let our enemy dallas get him. Another brilliant move by us.

5th. Robert mccune. The best move weve made all draft. He is speedy and might be able to replace barrow if he is still injured.

the rest of our draft doesnt matter cause they probably suck and arent going to play.

Probably the worst draft weve had in a long time. D- is being nice. id rate ours as probably the worst of the draft.

If you really think our draft was a D, then you are really thinking just from a 'fans' standpoint. Every fan wants a guy like Mathis, cuz of his "sick jukes" haha.... He is quick, THATS IT! Our newly acquired Brown from last year is better then him. Mathis wont be a starting WR in the league, maybe a PR at best, and we already have BROWN.

First off, Carlos Rogers was a GREAT pick just him alone will put our grade above a D.

2nd Campbell, was a smart pick for the future. This kid has an awesome arm and will be a starter in the league within 2 years max. Once Ramsey's contract is over, if he plays at a par level, we let him go and put in campbell who will ultimately IMO be alot better then Ramsey. If ramsey does turn into a "star" which i highly doubt he ever will, he will demand a contract and we let him go and put campbell in.

Either way, Ramseys future is done with us after this season pretty much. Campbell IS our MAN of the future. You may think we overpaid for him, but obviously the coaches see awesome potential in him, and think its worth what they gave up. They are thinkin cap too.

3rd Manuel White will open up Cooley to be more of a true tight end. Manuel is a SOLID BACK. Good change of pace back and a good blocker compared to cooley.

4th McCune, He is RIPPPEDDD and is a workout WARRIor. I've seen this guy play and he's a monster!!! I dont think i've seen a collegiate player as big as him. Probably cuz he was overseas in the forces and this dude is ripped. He will contribute on special teams right away and add depth to our LB squad.

[BurgundyBomber]

A healthy competiton will be taking place at Redskin Park this summer. Ramsey will be exposed for what he's worth one way or another. However he does is debatable. What is not debateable to me is Jason Campbell's ability. He probably will be the best QB in this and next years draft.

bonez3

Remember what happened last year when we had a 'healthy competition' at QB? I do, Brunell floated to the top and we were doomed.

The reality is that Campbell isn't going to compete (there are questions about his intelligence and Gibb's offenses are notoriously difficult to learn, let alone master) so we're going to repeat this exercise with the same two. Except that this time PR has got Brunell and Campbell on the brain.

I'm tryin' to keep the faith, but Joe is taxing me right now.

[NewGibbsEra]

Originally posted by Gothtimus

Our draft sucked. period. I'm ok with the Rogers pick, but with Mike Williams there it should have been a no brainer.. And this QB pick is disgusting. We gave up to many picks for 1 guy who is unproven, and only had 1 good college season!.

Friggen stupid.

And is Mike Williams "PROVEN?"

Okay, honestly, I had my hands clamed together and was hoping for us to draft williams because of all the hype. But now after thinking about it, its either williams or rogers, and rogers was clearly the correct pick. And with the 25th pick? who do you suggest them drafting? Roddy White? Thank God we didnt. We have enough recievers and with ROD coming back (unfortunately and most likely) Our WR core is stacked with talent and speed.

I dont understand why everyone thinks m. williams was a "no-brainer" He has more question marks then anyone in this draft except clarrett. He ran a blazing slow time. He is Big, but utterly slow and definitely wont fool anyone with his route running. Yes, he is BIG and does have soft hands, but He wont be as nearly as dominant as he was in college 2 years ago on jump balls as he will be in the nfl. That is another thing, he hasnt played for a whole year. Football is not BBALL its hard to sit out and come in right away and play.

if you see all of WIlliams' film, he is really slow with his patterns, and he never ever rarely beats anybody with his route running, it is all jump balls and strength over the DB's. That will change in the big leagues.

[Waleo32]

The draft was terrible. Rogers, and McCune, are the best picks. McCune can challenge for the MLB job. There were so many players better than the FB's we picked up in the draft. Swancutt, Hawthorne. In stead of getting Campbell we should have made a play at a Big WR, or Marcus Spears. He can play DE and DT. Shoot or even one of the Codys. FB's we Sellars, Cartwright is a good FB if Joe let's him play his position. Cooley is a H back which is like a FB. I mean come on. Hell we could have sign these dudes as undrafted free Agents. Matter of fact there are better undrafted Free Agents than we even drafted. Ernest Shazor didn't get drafted that dude was a monster in college. A finalist for the Jim Thorpe award didn't get drafted. We could have added him for depth. This was crazy. I gave us a D, but maybe Joe will prove me wrong and our draft picks turn out to be a surprise.

[JimmiJo]

Originally posted by NewGibbsEra

And is Mike Williams "PROVEN?"

Okay, honestly, I had my hands clamed together and was hoping for us to draft williams because of all the hype. But now after thinking about it, its either williams or rogers, and rogers was clearly the correct pick. And with the 25th pick? who do you suggest them drafting? Roddy White? Thank God we didnt. We have enough recievers and with ROD coming back (unfortunately and most likely) Our WR core is stacked with talent and speed.

I dont understand why everyone thinks m. williams was a "no-brainer" He has more question marks then anyone in this draft except clarrett. He ran a blazing slow time. He is Big, but utterly slow and definitely wont fool anyone with his route running. Yes, he is BIG and does have soft hands, but He wont be as nearly as dominant as he was in college 2 years ago on jump balls as he will be in the nfl. That is another thing, he hasnt played for a whole year. Football is not BBALL its hard to sit out and come in right away and play.

if you see all of WIlliams' film, he is really slow with his patterns, and he never ever rarely beats anybody with his route running, it is all jump balls and strength over the DB's. That will change in the big leagues.

I rate the draft a D. For the 3rd year in a row I am screaming at the TV "Pick a D-end! Pick a D-end!" It seems like they are resigned to using blitzing LBs, corners, and safeties for sacks, when a monster end would have had the most immediate impact and value.

That being said, I could not have been more happy that we passed on Williams. Can anyone tell me the last early-round reciever that the 'Skins picked that did ANYTHING in their first, or for that matter, subsequent years? Gardner? Taylor Jacobs?

Try Art Monk, and that was 25 years ago.

Williams was a pick that fans would have made, and eventually regretted, most likely. We have speed at the position, and bodies. If Jacobs and McCants step up along with Patten et al we will be fine.

Forgetting that Gibbs does not like Ramsey, should we not consider that if Ramsey gets hurt the number two man is Brunell.

Maybe Gibbs believes that Brunell is washed-up. And it seems that I remember Gibbs saying last year that you have to have two good QBs on your team.

I think the pick is more an indictment of Brunell than Ramsey, and if you are Gibbs, and if your veteran is toast, and if you have a guy you think is a bad-ass, then you get him.

They still should have gotten a D-end.

P.S. I have to believe that we had another reason to trade for the 25th pick. Because bad-ass or no, he is not worth what we gave up next year.

[SnyderShrugged]

Originally posted by dviands

i find it funny how some people equate post totals to football knowledge. i wonder what gibbs' avatar is:whoknows:

anyway, here are my .02:

before this draft, it was commonly known that our areas of need were as follows: CB, DL (esp. DE), and WR. we filled our CB need......and that's it!

we draft a qb that won't play for a couple of years if the plans go right. i know that there are reasons for this, i just think we gave up too much and ignored more glaring needs.

we neglected the need for a pass rushing DE for what seems like the 25th year in a row.......chris canty is available and we take a fullback. a FULLBACK. gibbs doesn't use a fullback.

then w/ our 7th pick, we take another fullback. i just don't get it.

i like the mccune pick, the rogers pick i like, i feel like we avoided the big splash, sexy pick w/ williams that, if gibbs were not around, i'm sure we would've made. however, as good a pick as that is, it is an indictment of our offseason that we even had to pick this guy. if we could keep our own, we would've been more flexible at the 9 spot.

i know gibbs has a plan, and i hope that he's right, but we had needs that were not filled.

Thanks for prooving my point....Rookie.

You say commonly known needs, by whom?

Are you honestly indicating that Gibbs and Williams purposely saw a glaring need and ignored it?

Are you suddenly more qualified than they to evaluate what an NFL team needs?

Please post your credentials, because I have a ton of questions to ask you!

[jayneal7]

I think the Campbell pick was very solid. Ramsey is about as inacurate as you can be and still play in the NFL. Brunell is washed up. Hasselbeck is our only respectable returning QB. I know Ramsey needs a full-time shot, but he has not grabbed the reigns yet in 3 years. If Gibbs thinks we need a QB, then we NEED A QB!! Most important position on the field and we are beow average at best.

[Major Harris]

Originally posted by skin-n-vegas

Thanks for prooving my point....Rookie.

You say commonly known needs, by whom?

Are you honestly indicating that Gibbs and Williams purposely saw a glaring need and ignored it?

Are you suddenly more qualified than they to evaluate what an NFL team needs?

Please post your credentials, because I have a ton of questions to ask you!

i was giving my opinion.

thanks for the rookie compliment, shows you really put a lot of credence into post totals. true internet nerds do this.

i don't think i'm more qualified than gibbs and williams. my opinion was stated and that was it.

so 'splain to me how i proved your point.

edit: commonly known needs was a reference to how so many on this board, before the draft, would've and DID say we needed certain things that we didn't get. but now, spin control is on. these were great picks.

like i said, i hope they work out. i'm sure gibbs has the plan.

[JimmiJo]

Originally posted by skin-n-vegas

Thanks for prooving my point....Rookie.

You say commonly known needs, by whom?

Are you honestly indicating that Gibbs and Williams purposely saw a glaring need and ignored it?

Are you suddenly more qualified than they to evaluate what an NFL team needs?

Please post your credentials, because I have a ton of questions to ask you!

Gibbs also said we had to have Brunell, and spent a buttload of money to get him when all he really had to do was wait until the Jags cut him. Let's not forget the value of Beathard (sp?) and Casserly the first time around, nor an owner who knew the value of a GM.

I too love Gibbs, even if he never wins another game. But this notion of shunning fans who practice critical thinking is BS. This is competition and there is nothing sacred when it comes to winning and losing.

[LWC]

Solid draft. Love the Rogers pick over Williams.

It's clear that Gibbs is not convinced that the long term future is with Ramsey, and he needs to see it done this year to erase those doubts. If it doesn't happen, we've invested next years 1st rounder on the teams QB of the short term future, one who has already spent a year with the organization learning the ropes/playbook.

I think it's a good move. For it to be a poor or wasted pick, Ramsey will have to play well, the team racks up wins, and makes the playoffs. Isn't that what we want!!

[Major Harris]

Originally posted by JimmiJo

Gibbs also said we had to have Brunell, and spent a buttload of money to get him when all he really had to do was wait until the Jags cut him. Let's not forget the value of Beathard (sp?) and Casserly the first time around, nor an owner who knew the value of a GM.

I too love Gibbs, even if he never wins another game. But this notion of shunning fans who practice critical thinking is BS. This is competition and there is nothing sacred when it comes to winning and losing.

easy there, camp fodder. your post total indicates that you have no clue. just believe in gibbs:cool:

[herrmag]

Originally posted by NewGibbsEra

4th McCune, He is RIPPPEDDD and is a workout WARRIor. I've seen this guy play and he's a monster!!! I dont think i've seen a collegiate player as big as him. Probably cuz he was overseas in the forces and this dude is ripped.

It's great that you think he'll be a star in this league, but one question;

Is he ripped?:laugh:

[JimmiJo]

Originally posted by dviands

easy there, camp fodder. your post total indicates that you have no clue. just believe in gibbs:cool:

Uh, yea.

When the day comes that the value of my opinion is based on how many posts I put on a team's fan site, then I will truly be a brainless idol-worshipper.

Gibbs has not historically made terrific personnel decisions.

That's the truth Son, can you handle it?

[Major Harris]

Originally posted by JimmiJo

Uh, yea.

When the day comes that the value of my opinion is based on how many posts I put on a team's fan site, then I will truly be a brainless idol-worshipper.

Gibbs has not historically made terrific personnel decisions.

That's the truth Son, can you handle it?

dude, read back a few posts, and you'll see that wasn't directed at you.:doh:

[JimmiJo]

Originally posted by dviands

dude, read back a few posts, and you'll see that wasn't directed at you.:doh:

But dude, you quoted me?!

No worries, go Skins!!!

[Major Harris]

Originally posted by JimmiJo

But dude, you quoted me?!

No worries, go Skins!!!

sorry to confuse you....that was directed at the dude who kept referring to people's avatars if they didn't like the draft.

i'm pretty much w/ you on this topic.

[yoskins]

Folks: this draft is so frustrating and emblematic of everything that has gone wrong over these 13 years (and I'm a Gibbs fan). As a fan, and we all are, what is maddening is how we continue to squander and mortgage the future of this team for panic moves that do not bear the cost we expend (we get no value for our decisions). Not only cash-wise are we mortgaged to the hilt, but our draft picks are too. I will not go into the individual picks but assess what we have done to ourselves that deprive us of hope and value opportunities for our future.

1) draft picks: look at how many picks teams that were in the playoffs had and used: Philadelphia: 11; St. Louis: 11; Indianapolis: 10; Green Bay: 11; Pittsburgh 8; Jets: 8; Atlanta: 8; N.Eng: 7. Point: for every great GM out there, these teams recognize this is a crapshoot, but you have to have numbers to seed the future. And we just gave away next year's #1, 4 and this year's 3?

2) Value: Some have made the astute argument that had we played our cards right, somehow gotten a 2nd rounder, Campbell would still have been there. We could have traded down from the #25 position. But we panicked and overpaid again. How could we have expended a draft pick and the $6.8 million bonus on Brunell? Why couldn't we have expended $6.5 million for six years on Antonio Pierece? How much will we spend now on Santana Moss who may never play a whole season and encumbers salary that could be paid to a healthy and larger rookie WR? And how much will Dan pay Lavar to drop the whole arbitration squabble?

3) Past forces current decisions: Because we let Antonio Pierce go, we spend two draft picks to fill the middle LB. He had 4 years experience over any rookie we could pick and was a core Redskin, right? (Newberry has no experience there and 6 ft. is small for a MLB, despite McCune's tremendous body and heart). Because we loose Smoot--yes, I think his greed for money overcame his loyalty to the skins--we were forced to draft a CB in the first round. We had no choice. (Some say we should have taken Mike Williams, and I would have loved him too, but keep in mind if all draft intel was correct, Campbell's great value was not only in his size and armstrength, but in his extreme accuracy. Combine that with the fact he played in a west coast offense in college, work in Musgrave's new-think west coast influence, we can get by this year with our current receivers--at least for this year, versus not having a shutdown corner behind oldsters Springs and Harris)

4) Ignoring real needs: We knew going in we needed WRs; CB; DL (DE and DT). Because we spent 2 picks on FB's and 2 on LBs, we did not draft a WR or DE, a glaring need. (another year of blitz reliance without DL push). I'm desperately hoping the unsigned free agents yield some prospects at DL or WR, but not realistically.

I will not argue that the guys we took might not fill important needs. I think we upgraded toughness and speed to the team. I just do not think we have done enough--not only this year, but in each year--to bring new talent in to meet so many of our areas of need. All things going well, we should be okay on the offensive line with Jansen back, with Rabach, with Dockery, wilson and Molinaro firming up, with an injury free Santana Moss and competitive QBs--get rid of Brunell's salary. Campbell might be great. But we have major holes that will have to wait another year. And oh, by the way, next year's crop of draft talent will far surpass this year's--and we have no first round or fourth round pick. I am so frustrated by the continued deficit spending and lack of smarts on this Skins team--not decrying Gibbs' eye for talent, though he did push for Desmond Howard, and support his effort to bring traditional respect and values back to the team. (Because of Moss's and Taylor's antics, Antrelle Rolle was never going to be drafted by the Skins.) But let's hope that we are turning the corner.

[Major Harris]

Originally posted by yoskins

Folks: this draft is so frustrating and emblematic of everything that has gone wrong over these 13 years (and I'm a Gibbs fan). As a fan, and we all are, what is maddening is how we continue to squander and mortgage the future of this team for panic moves that do not bear the cost we expend (we get no value for our decisions). Not only cash-wise are we mortgaged to the hilt, but our draft picks are too. I will not go into the individual picks but assess what we have done to ourselves that deprive us of hope and value opportunities for our future.

1) draft picks: look at how many picks teams that were in the playoffs had and used: Tampa Bay 12; Philadelphia: 11; St. Louis: 11; Indianapolis: 10; Green Bay: 11; Pittsburgh 8; Jets: 8; Atlanta: 8; N.Eng: 7. Point: for every great GM out there, these teams recognize this is a crapshoot, but you have to have numbers to seed the future. And we just gave away next year's #1, 4 and this year's 3?

2) Value: Some have made the astute argument that had we played our cards right, somehow gotten a 2nd rounder, Campbell would still have been there. We could have traded down from the #25 position. But we panicked and overpaid again. How could we have expended a draft pick and the $6.8 million bonus on Brunell? Why couldn't we have expended $6.5 million for six years on Antonio Pierece? How much will we spend now on Santana Moss who may never play a whole season and encumbers salary that could be paid to a healthy and larger rookie WR? And how much will Dan pay Lavar to drop the whole arbitration squabble?

3) Past forces current decisions: Because we let Antonio Pierce go, we spend two draft picks to fill the middle LB. He had 4 years experience over any rookie we could pick and was a core Redskin, right? (Newberry has no experience there and 6 ft. is small for a MLB, despite McCune's tremendous body and heart). Because we loose Smoot--yes, I think his greed for money overcame his loyalty to the skins--we were forced to draft a CB in the first round. We had no choice. (Some say we should have taken Mike Williams, and I would have loved him too, but keep in mind if all draft intel was correct, Campbell's great value was not only in his size and armstrength, but in his extreme accuracy. Combine that with the fact he played in a west coast offense in college, work in Musgrave's new-think west coast influence, we can get by this year with our current receivers--at least for this year, versus not having a shutdown corner behind oldsters Springs and Harris)

4) Ignoring real needs: We knew going in we needed WRs; CB; DL (DE and DT). Because we spent 2 picks on FB's and 2 on LBs, we did not draft a WR or DE, a glaring need. (another year of blitz reliance without DL push). I'm desperately hoping the unsigned free agents yield some prospects at DL or WR, but not realistically.

I will not argue that the guys we took might not fill important needs. I think we upgraded toughness and speed to the team. I just do not think we have done enough--not only this year, but in each year--to bring new talent in to meet so many of our areas of need. All things going well, we should be okay on the offensive line with Jansen back, with Rabach, with Dockery, wilson and Molinaro firming up, with an injury free Santana Moss and competitive QBs--get rid of Brunell's salary. Campbell might be great. But we have major holes that will have to wait another year. And oh, by the way, next year's crop of draft talent will far surpass this year's--and we have no first round or fourth round pick. I am so frustrated by the continued deficit spending and lack of smarts on this Skins team--not decrying Gibbs' eye for talent, though he did push for Desmond Howard, and support his effort to bring traditional respect and values back to the team. (Because of Moss's and Taylor's antics, Antrelle Rolle was never going to be drafted by the Skins.) But let's hope that we are turning the corner.

tampa made the playoffs? what'd i miss?

[yoskins]

Originally posted by dviands

tampa made the playoffs? what'd i miss?

The whole post.