Did Lance do it?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Do you think Lance Armstrong used steroids? Simple question, vote above....let the arguing begin...

[The Evil Genius]

Have you seen how much his head has grown in the past 3 years?

[dfitzo53]

Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff

Do you think Lance Armstrong used steroids? Simple question, vote above....let the arguing begin...

I think a more productive question would be "What evidence do you have that Lance Armstrong used steroids?"

[The Evil Genius]

Originally posted by dfitzo53

I think a more productive question would be "What evidence do you have that Lance Armstrong used steroids?"

But where is the fun in that? C'mon man - get it straight. We love to accuse people without evidence. You know - since Lance was friends with someone who doped...then you know he MUST be using.

Besides, the media says it's true.

[danbee]

Originally posted by T.E.G.

Have you seen how much his head has grown in the past 3 years?

Isn't he suppose to grow, he was recovering from Cancer. Not enough information for me to say yes or no just a thought.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Originally posted by dfitzo53

I think a more productive question would be "What evidence do you have that Lance Armstrong used steroids?"

Here's one...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2005-03-31-armstrong-suit_x.htm

Ex-assistant alleges Lance had banned substance

AUSTIN (AP) — A former personal assistant to Lance Armstrong filed court papers Thursday alleging that he discovered a banned substance in the six-time Tour de France winner's apartment early last year.

Mike Anderson, Armstrong's former assistant, alleges that he discovered a banned substance in the six-time Tour de France winner's apartment last year.

By Thomas Terry, AP

Mike Anderson, who is involved in a legal fight with Armstrong over alleged promises the cyclist made to help Anderson start a bike shop, made the claim in a brief filed in state district court. The brief does not say whether Anderson saw Armstrong take any banned substances.

Armstrong, who has won a record six consecutive Tours, has maintained that he is drug-free. The cancer survivor frequently notes he is one of the most drug-tested athletes in the world.

A representative for Armstrong referred all questions to the cyclist's attorney, Timothy Herman, who declined immediate comment because he hasn't seen the brief. Armstrong is in Europe, where he finished 24th at the Paris-Camembert race Tuesday.

Anderson, who says he had a key to Armstrong's apartment in Girona, Spain, alleges he was cleaning the bathroom in "early 2004" when he found a white box labeled "like any other prescription drug" but that did not have a doctor's prescription attached.

Written on the box was the trademark name "Androstenine, or something very close to this," Anderson said.

"He went to the computer, looked it up on the WADA or USADA Web site(s), and confirmed that what he had found was an androgen, a listed banned substance," Anderson's court brief states, referring to the World Anti-Doping Agency and the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency.

Anderson said he put the box back where he found it. Fearing he would be fired, he said he did not confront Armstrong about it. He said he looked for the box again after Armstrong left Girona to train in the Canary Islands, but didn't find it.

"He was torn about what to do. He's an honest guy opposed to doping in sports," said Anderson's attorney, Hal Gillespie. "(But) he was sure that if he confronted, he would be fired. He's got a wife and young child, no money and a long way from home."

Gillespie said Anderson did not see Armstrong taking any steroids or other banned substances.

Anderson's brief also said he and Armstrong had a discussion in 2004 about cyclists who dope and claimed Armstrong told him, "Everyone does it."

Gillespie said that conversation took place before Anderson allegedly found the steroid. The lawyer also said he plans to depose Armstrong.

Anderson said he believes Armstrong knew about the alleged discovery because their relationship began to deteriorate almost immediately.

Anderson said he was working as a mechanic at a local bike store when he met Armstrong more than four years ago. They became friends, often riding together, and Anderson regularly worked on Armstrong's bikes before becoming his personal assistant in November 2002.

Anderson said he was paid about $3,000 a month for duties that ranged from building bike trails on Armstrong's Hill Country property to doing his grocery shopping in Spain. He says he developed a close relationship with Armstrong and his family.

Anderson said he was fired in November 2004 after asking for, and getting, a $500 a month raise. He said Armstrong's representatives offered him a severance package totaling $7,000.

Armstrong and his personal service company, Luke David LLC, sued Anderson about a month later, claiming Anderson demanded Armstrong pay him $500,000, give him a signed Tour de France jersey and future endorsements to help him set up his own bike shop.

Anderson countersued, accusing the cyclist of fraud, breach of contract and causing him severe emotional distress. Anderson says an e-mail Armstrong sent to offer him the job promised the help and should be considered a binding contract.

Anderson said Armstrong also demanded he sign a confidentiality agreement that would have held him liable for up to $1 million in damages.

Thursday's filing was because the court wanted more details in support of Anderson's claim.

Now...I like Lance, I hope it's not true. I find it interesting that people bring allegations up against Michael Jackson and everyone thinks he's guilty. But sully the name of an American athletic hero and some people go nuts and say he's innocent or say things like "Oh, what evidence do YOU have?"

Like Michael Jackson, I think people are making allegations for personal gain, but I don't think they're total lies.

Another one....

http://www.kdhnews.com/sports_1.html

Recent sports scandals, allegations have columnist irked

By Jon Garrett

Killeen Daily Herald

The nerd never gets the girl, good deeds go unrewarded and having the best credentials for the job doesn't guarantee that you will get it— or even be in the running.

NASA can figure out how to get rovers to make the 286 million mile voyage to Mars and control them as simply as you would a cheap RC car from Radio Shack, yet the combined efforts of the FBI, Las Vegas Police Department and LAPD, among others, were not enough to figure out who killed Tupac or Biggie— although both were shot in heavily populated areas with several witnesses in attendance after major entertainment events.

Life isn't fair.

That's why I love the world of sports. It's a place where hard work and dedication are nearly guaranteed to reap rewards, where if you follow the rules and do your job well there is always a second chance and someone as small in stature as Doug Flutie, can be a giant among men, at least for awhile.

To say that the recent rash of sports scandals, from crazed parents starting fights at their kids' little league soccer games all the way up to the BALCO steroid scandal that threatens to derail the USA Track and Field team's chances just over a month before it's scheduled to roll into Athens, has been a disappointment to me would be an understatement. It is an anathema to my very soul.

As the injustices of sport continue to pile up, it seems that is has become the duty of us all to right what's wrong with our once treasured pastimes. Before we can do that, however, we must take a close look in the mirror at ourselves.

I'm talking about the curious case of Barry and Lance.

Icons in their respective sports, both Barry Bonds and Lance Armstrong are facing allegations of using performance enhancing drugs to give them an edge. Bonds' personal trainer, and lifelong friend, Greg Anderson was indicted by a federal grand jury in the BALCO case, establishing in the minds of many the last link needed to prove the formerly slim leadoff hitter had used steroids to bulk up and increase his production in his latter years as he has began taking the steps necessary to assault the records of Babe Ruth and try to claim the title of best ever to play the game as his own.

Despite never failing a drug test, and in spite of indicted BALCO president Victor Conte's assertion that his company never gave steroids to Bonds, the scandal has made the slugger a marked man and already threatened to put an asterisk next to the records he has put a lifetime of sweat-equity into breaking.

Armstrong, on the other hand, is still America's golden boy, saturating the cover of magazines and newspapers across the country as he attempts to win a record-breaking sixth Tour de France.

The allegations in the soon-to-be published book by journalist David Walsh and Pierre Ballester, "L.A. Confidential, The Secrets of Lance Armstrong," that he has doped have been largely ignored by the media, which chooses to focus on images of him in the yellow jersey rather than the seedy possibilities, despite testimony in the book from former Armstrong aide, Emma O'Reilly that the rider asked her to dispose of used needles and give him makeup to cover injections on his right arm.

Until either athlete is sanctioned or the issue is decided in a court of law, both accusations amount to hearsay. Why is it, however, that one is vilified while the other is put on a pedestal as the epitome of American grit and resolve.

Maybe it's Bonds unapproachability which damns him and Lance's battle and subsequent defeat of cancer that endeared him to the public, that has resulted in the different treatment the two receive.

I would hate to think it was something more sinister, like race. Then again, I don't remember many people calling for Mark McGwire's head when he was the king of swing in baseball, thanks in part to his use of steroid precursor Androstenedione — a substance that for all intents and purposes is a steroid once processed by the liver.

And another...

http://www.arpuerta.com/040917.html

Uncomfortable Satisfaction

Lance Armstrong is guilty of doping under common-sense standard

September 17, 2004

The recent decision by the US Anti-Doping Agency to adopt a lower standard of proof for doping cases is a welcomed addition to the scant arsenal of weapons available against the ever more sophisticated users of performance-enhancing drugs in the world of sports. Athletes need no longer be proven guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt" in doping cases-a near impossibility in many instances-but rather they must be proven guilty "to the comfortable satisfaction" of the panels hearing their cases.

The new standard brings common sense into the pursuit of a level playing field. Obvious cheaters, such as Greek sprinters Kostas Kenteris and Katerina Thanou, can no longer hide beyond a "we have never tested positive" gimmick that is built upon clever drugs and astute event and training schedules. Instead, evidence of associations with persons known to facilitate the distribution of drugs, abnormal improvements in performance, and even hearsay, will all be admissible when judging athletes. The standard recognizes in practice what we all know or suspect: that the technology behind the production and administration of performance-enhancing drugs is nearly always ahead of that of drug testing. As a result, athletes universally suspected of wrongdoing spend entire careers achieving records and staying one step ahead of the law.

Comfortable satisfaction brings into the forefront an event that purposely avoids using it, and an athlete who could be the poster child for it: The Tour de France and Lance Armstrong, respectively. Armstrong has been dodged for years by doping accusations and has remained free of final judgment thanks to a lack, but not an absence, of positive tests, and a convenient racing schedule that minimizes testing opportunities.

However, if we eliminate the "beyond a reasonable doubt" requirement, the case for Armstrong being a cheater is very strong, if not completely conclusive. Let us examine the evidence at hand:

Armstrong was a medium-notable young rider, among many such others, when in 1996 he was struck with testicular cancer. He became at that time at least the third member of the US Cycling team to be afflicted by severe, life-threatening illnesses. The two other riders in this group, Greg Strock and Erich Keiter, ended up suing USA Cycling claiming that US coaches systematically injected them with performance-enhancing drugs that ultimately ruined their health. Among the coaches alleged to have injected the drugs was Chris Carmichael who is Lance Armstrong's long-time training coach.

After Armstrong survived cancer and raced again in 1998, he found himself unable to compete at a high level, and ultimately stopped racing altogether after abandoning a Paris-Nice race exhausted and looking very much as one would expect a man who has undergone cancer treatment to look. At that point, Armstrong went into seclusion with coach Chris Carmichael and emerged the next year to win the Tour de France. In the space of a few months, he had gone from collapsing by the side of the road to handily winning one of the top three cycling races in the world. The label that the press, fellow riders, and amazed fans put on this feat was unanimous: "It's a Miracle".

During the 1999 Tour de France, Armstrong tested positive for cortisone, a banned performance-enhancing drug. The test result, which carried with it an immediate disqualification from the race, was explained away by claiming that it was due to a topical cream legally prescribed to Armstrong. However, Emma O'Reilly, a key staff member of the US Postal team at the time and who was present when the team discussed what to do about the positive tests, has declared to various media outlets that the saving prescription was actually a doctored one fabricated with the express purpose of deceiving Tour officials. O'Reilly, who is a respected member of the cycling community, has nothing to gain with her allegations and has no ax to grind with Armstrong.

For many years, even as early as 1996, Armstrong's favorite doctor has been Michele Ferrari whom Bicycling magazine calls without hesitation "cycling's doctor most suspected of doping athletes". Dr. Ferrari is currently on trial in Europe for allegedly supplying riders with performance-enhancing drugs. Far from distancing himself from Dr. Ferrari, Armstrong has defended his association with him and gone as far as physically threatening riders who have decided to testify against Dr. Ferrari.

Starting in 2000, French police investigated Armstrong and the US Postal team for the illegal procurement and distribution of performance-enhancing drugs. The allegations were based on anonymous tips to police that even included syringes supposedly being used in the schema. The charges, of a criminal nature and carrying hefty prison sentences, were dropped for reasons of lack of evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

Three-time winner of the Tour de France, American Greg Lemond, has labeled Armstrong's comeback from cancer as possibly "the greatest fraud" in the history of the race. To the idea that we have simple witnessed a miracle Lemond is even more blunt: "There are no miracles in cycling". Lemond suffered a shotgun accident in 1987 and had to make a difficult recovery of his own with a long path back to top competition. He clearly knows the limits of the human body at those performing heights and recognizes without reservations that his own return took a full two years and that he was "never the same".

In 2004, reporters David Walsh and Pierre Ballester published LA Confidential, a well-documented retrospective book on how Armstrong has allegedly used illegal drugs to further his career. The book includes extensive interviews with former US Postal team staff members and is but one piece away to be a final indictment on Armstrong: a positive test. Lance Armstrong sued the authors for libel in French courts, but his lawsuit was quickly dismissed.

One would think that with the ever-higher mountains of allegations and accusations against Lance Armstrong, the Tour would have by now implemented very strict controls designed to catch Armstrong cheating. But therein lies the problem. The Tour de France is the least interested party on Earth in wanting to uncover doping. By 1999, the Tour had just come out of a major doping scandal in the previous years' edition of the race. Attendance was down, the credibility of the Tour was at an all-time low, and French police were hounding riders and doctors. The Lance Armstrong "miracle" comeback was a Godsend story for the Tour that year. It took the focus off their lax testing procedures and brought back cycling to the front pages. The Tour was eager to accept any plausible explanation that US Postal could provide for Armstrong's positive test result. Tour officials knew well that another doping revelation, involving the Tour's leader nonetheless, could inflict lasting if not permanent damage on the Tour as a race. Ever since, Armstrong and the Tour have been basically married to each other, the fate of one clinging to the fate of the other one.

By a standard of comfortable satisfaction, Lance Armstrong is guilty of doping by a clear margin. He has disgraced the sport, made a mockery of the race, insulted fellow riders and fans alike, and trivialized the record wins of past great cyclists. With the failure of the establishment to unmask his deception, we are left with only the hope that history will bring him down to his right place. Fortunately, as Armstrong was winning a record sixth Tour in 2004, we witnessed a silent protest of sorts from the people who know and love cycling: not a single publication in Europe bothered comparing him to Indurain, Merck, or Hinault, the true standard bearers of what cycling and class are all about.

Look, like I said, I hope it's not true. I like Lance, steroids or not, what he's done is incredible (and I admit that I'm jealous that he's with Sheryl Crow, too). I got my trendy little Livestrong bracelt last summer like everyone else did.

I just wonder why people want to cover it up so much, if it is indeed true. I think it's because if the allegations are true, it'll make people hate American even more than they already do. We're unpopular on the international stage as it is, and we don't need someone with Lance's stature to be proven a fraud. Just my two cents.

[dfitzo53]

Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff

Now...I like Lance, I hope it's not true. I find it interesting that people bring allegations up against Michael Jackson and everyone thinks he's guilty. But sully the name of an American athletic hero and some people go nuts and say he's innocent or say things like "Oh, what evidence do YOU have?"

If this part of your post was aimed at me, and maybe it wasn't, then I think you read the wrong emphasis into my question. I don't know much about the subject...I don't follow cycling but I like Lance as much as the next guy. He has a great story.

Since I didn't know anything about the subject I was merely asking what evidence was out there that would lead one to such a conclusion. (Besides speculation based on his having won the Tour six times.)

Thanks for the articles.

[Spaceman Spiff]

My bad Dfitzo, just thought you'd heard about the recent allegations since they've been a popular topic lately.

Wasn't trying to start anything.

[SkinsChick36]

I'm not saying he did or didn't but it's very upsetting that anyone who sets an awesome record or does something amazing in sports is nearly automatically questioned about steriods...even worse alot of the ones being questions did you them..Mark Mcgwire...bonds? :doh:

[chomerics]

I think there is no freakin way he was doing andro. Here's why.

1. It is an illegal drug in his sport.

2. He is CONSTANTLY drug tested.

3. he has absolutly nothing to gain

4. The person who said he "saw" andro in Armstrong's house is suing him.

5. Alterior motives

[dfitzo53]

Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff

My bad Dfitzo, just thought you'd heard about the recent allegations since they've been a popular topic lately.

Wasn't trying to start anything.

No worries.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Originally posted by chomerics

I think there is no freakin way he was doing andro. Here's why.

1. It is an illegal drug in his sport.

2. He is CONSTANTLY drug tested.

3. he has absolutly nothing to gain

4. The person who said he "saw" andro in Armstrong's house is suing him.

5. Alterior motives

1. Who said it was andro?

2. Yes, he's constantly drug tested. But drugs these days are like computer viruses, they come out faster than can be detected. Look at BALCO

3. He has a lot to gain, why do you think he keeps racing?

4. The person who saw the drugs in his house allegedly got fired when he brought it to Lance's attention.

5. This is the only part of your argument I agree with.

[TheDoyler23]

Steroids? no. Blood-doping type of medications... possibly. Ex staff members from his team have been interviewed saying so, but they seem to have an ax to grind.

[Thiebear]

Originally posted by Spaceman Spiff

1. Who said it was andro?

2. Yes, he's constantly drug tested. But drugs these days are like computer viruses, they come out faster than can be detected. Look at BALCO

3. He has a lot to gain, why do you think he keeps racing?

4. The person who saw the drugs in his house allegedly got fired when he brought it to Lance's attention.

5. This is the only part of your argument I agree with.

The guy in the article say actually said he thinks Armstrong is psychic and "KNEW" he found the box (that he put back) because "things changed" after that....

So even though he touched the box and put it back: CSI Armstrong saw some of the trace patterns on the keyboard and box, made the match and then decided to ruin that guys life.

Makes perfect sense...

[redman]

The French police have investigated him for years in light of the steroid and blood doping scandals in biking, and have found nothing - zero, zilch, nada. On top of that, even his accusers have never been able to explain why it is that the French police can't find anything in his blood tests.

This is a no-go.

[TheDoyler23]

I know the drug testing is usually a step behind, but unless there is a confession or a positive test, I believe that he hasn't taken anything illegal.