Miller AND Cooly?

[Gohan17]

I will say I love Heath Miller and would love to have him on this team. That said though we already have a pretty good young TE in Cooly and we need a good number 2 WR to go run with Coles so does drafting him do much for us? If this was college then running with two recieving TE and a WR would be interesting but we can't really do that in the NFL.

[VAsBeachBoy]

WHY???

[Dead Money]

Check the news - Cooley is at our H-Back position not TE. He can line up at TE but I think he is used as an H-Back more often than not.

Because a lot of teams do not use the H-Back its easy to lose in the mix..

Now With Cooley at HB, and Miller at TE.. Oh imagine the possibilities... Ramsey would be dizzy with options (If he can just learn how to check them all)

edit: and Oh man could you imagine if we actually pick up a FA #1 or #2 receiver? I just hope we can get the OL under control, the rest is just what ifs without that fixed!

[Jimbo]

Adding Miller via the draft just continues to make the Skins a dink and dunk team when we really need to be stretching the field. Without a viable 15+ YPC receiver, Portis is not as effective, Cooley is not as effective, Coles is not as effective and therefore, Ramsey is not as effective. During our Super Bowl seasons, we had the likes of "Downtown" Charlie Brown who averages 21.6 YPC in 1982 and 15.7 in 1983. In 1987, Gary Clark averaged 19 YPC and Ricky Sanders averaged 17 YPC. In 1991, Clark averaged 19.1 YPC.

Gibbs has always had at least one deep threat to offset the always dependable Art Monk. This, combined with a superior O-Line and a grind-it-out running game, kept the defense off-balance. I think Robert Royal or someone like him can get the job done. What we desparately need is someone to stretch the field. A TE like Miller fits into the "nice to have" category but is definitely NOT a necessity.

[VaSkinsNut]

Cooley and Miller would be absolutely sick together.

Espicallyw ith Coles and Jacobs who can stretch the field.

[TheSteve]

Can we stop the freaking HEATH MILLER bandwagon threads. He's just a TE. He's not even SUPERSTAR material people. You just like him because he's a local boy. Stop overhyping him please. The Hype Machine has been played so much on this guy it's like a broken record.

Miller will never be more than a good TE people. He's not the player you WASTE, yes, WASTE a HIGH first round pick on people. Especially when you have other FREAKING needs. We need OL, WR, and DL help and maybe even DB help before TE help people.

Our problem last year was not the UNDERNEATH passing game people. Our problem was we couldn't stretch the field because nobody respected our passing game. We need a WR who is a deep threat.

We already have someone in Chris Cooley, who we didnt waste the #5 pick in the first round on, who can catch the ball just as well as Miller. We don't need to go crazy on TE's just because our dream of Kellen Winslow fell through.

Enough, Enough! Enough! Heath Miller is merely a passing fantasy of the Virginia faithful. Instead I direct your attention to a Mike Williams, or Braylon Edwards.

[NorEastNCFan]

Originally posted by Jimbo

Adding Miller via the draft just continues to make the Skins a dink and dunk team when we really need to be stretching the field. Without a viable 15+ YPC receiver, Portis is not as effective, Cooley is not as effective, Coles is not as effective and therefore, Ramsey is not as effective. During our Super Bowl seasons, we had the likes of "Downtown" Charlie Brown who averages 21.6 YPC in 1982 and 15.7 in 1983. In 1987, Gary Clark averaged 19 YPC and Ricky Sanders averaged 17 YPC. In 1991, Clark averaged 19.1 YPC.

Gibbs has always had at least one deep threat to offset the always dependable Art Monk. This, combined with a superior O-Line and a grind-it-out running game, kept the defense off-balance. I think Robert Royal or someone like him can get the job done. What we desparately need is someone to stretch the field. A TE like Miller fits into the "nice to have" category but is definitely NOT a necessity.

Jimbo, I understand where you're coming from, but it also makes me question. What is Coles role in this offense? I know he was hurt up this year, but shouldn't he be our "deep threat" for the upcoming season? When we traded for him from the Jets, I think that is what most people envisioned him to be. So is he that "deep threat" or is he the possession receiver ala Monk? And that being said, if he is the deep threat or possession receiver, then what is the problem with contemplating a TE at #9. I was completely against this idea of using our pick on a TE before, since we have Cooley. But giving it somemore thought, it could prove beneficial to have a solid pass catching TE and Cooley at HB. It seems a better idea than another stud WR, since it looks like we may be stuck with Rod Gardner for another year, and decent backups behind him.

[fdarugar]

Originally posted by TheSteve

Can we stop the freaking HEATH MILLER bandwagon threads. He's just a TE. He's not even SUPERSTAR material people. You just like him because he's a local boy. Stop overhyping him please. The Hype Machine has been played so much on this guy it's like a broken record.

Miller will never be more than a good TE people. He's not the player you WASTE, yes, WASTE a HIGH first round pick on people. Especially when you have other FREAKING needs. We need OL, WR, and DL help and maybe even DB help before TE help people.

Our problem last year was not the UNDERNEATH passing game people. Our problem was we couldn't stretch the field because nobody respected our passing game. We need a WR who is a deep threat.

We already have someone in Chris Cooley, who we didnt waste the #5 pick in the first round on, who can catch the ball just as well as Miller. We don't need to go crazy on TE's just because our dream of Kellen Winslow fell through.

Enough, Enough! Enough! Heath Miller is merely a passing fantasy of the Virginia faithful. Instead I direct your attention to a Mike Williams, or Braylon Edwards.

yup, yup.

[illone]

We will NOT be drafting Miller.

Gibbs made note to the fact that receiver is our biggest area of need, not TE. Plus, with Cooley as a receiving threat at the HB position Gibbs doesn't need a pass catching TE, he needs an extra tackle out there to block which Royal provides us.

[Funkyalligator]

I still say that we trade down and draft a DE.....but if we have to pick an offensive player we should go with hands first and then speed....Miller doesn't have the speed at all and his hands are okay....

[RunPortisRun]

Originally posted by TheSteve

Can we stop the freaking HEATH MILLER bandwagon threads. He's just a TE. He's not even SUPERSTAR material people. You just like him because he's a local boy. Stop overhyping him please. The Hype Machine has been played so much on this guy it's like a broken record.

Miller will never be more than a good TE people. He's not the player you WASTE, yes, WASTE a HIGH first round pick on people. Especially when you have other FREAKING needs. We need OL, WR, and DL help and maybe even DB help before TE help people.

Our problem last year was not the UNDERNEATH passing game people. Our problem was we couldn't stretch the field because nobody respected our passing game. We need a WR who is a deep threat.

We already have someone in Chris Cooley, who we didnt waste the #5 pick in the first round on, who can catch the ball just as well as Miller. We don't need to go crazy on TE's just because our dream of Kellen Winslow fell through.

Enough, Enough! Enough! Heath Miller is merely a passing fantasy of the Virginia faithful. Instead I direct your attention to a Mike Williams, or Braylon Edwards.

A TE like Miller would demand a double team...I doubt a LB can cover him one on one. Run Miller down the field and watch things open up.

WR in FA, draft Miller.

[Montilar]

The Hype Machine has been played so much on this guy it's like a broken record.

And that's how I feel about Edwards or Williams.

I'd much rather get Williamson or clayton, or Rhoddy White or a second tier WR.

Which would mean working a trade down somehow and hopefully getting a 2cd to get a top young center.

Williamson/Baas or Williamson/and the NC center is much much > Edwards or Williams. One of Edwards/Williams I fully expect to be big time bust.

And when you want to argue a deep threat, Williamson is the fastest WR in the draft. At 6-2. When you don't like his stats, he played on an option team; so of course his stats seem small.

You're right Miller is not necessity. but he does upgrade a very important position to Joe Gibbs. And for that reason he should be considered a possibility. Gibbs is the one who said the TE/HB spots are one of the most important positions to his offense.

Also, if Gibbs (or you for that matter) knew what kind of impact Don Warren was going to have during his career, do you not think he would be worth "wasting" a #1 on? I would instantly.

People forget Warren caught the ball also; 244 catches in his redskin career. About twice as many as Clint Didier at the HB spot. but of course Didier and Orr was the reception TE on those teams....

If Gibbs thinks Miller is the best option to upgrade his offense, he will take him. If not, then not.

While I don't expect him to be the pick, it is a possibility. and should be considered.

edit:

.Miller doesn't have the speed at all and his hands are okay....

Granted that's your opinion.... but he has better hands than Cooley. Believe it or not. Very soft hands. If Gardner had his hands, Gardner would be a pro bowler....

When we drafted Cooley and were discussing Winslow Jr., I remember talk of cooley leading the nation in receptions.

That was wrong. Miller led the TE's in college ball in receptions. Cooley was close; he led in catches per game. But Miller had one more game than cooley.

[TheSteve]

Originally posted by RunPortisRun

A TE like Miller would demand a double team...I doubt a LB can cover him one on one. Run Miller down the field and watch things open up.

WR in FA, draft Miller.

Why, should we draft Miller? Let's forget you're a VA fan and thus a fan of Miller, let's forget that. Show me where, when, and how he has demonstrated that he can be an ELITE, not good, but ELITE player at the professional level? He had good numbers in college, but so what? How did he do in the big games, how did he do against quality opponents.

I'm sorry, but you don't go drafting Heath Miller right now, because he is not:

1. Our biggest area of need.

2. The addition that will benefit this team the most and propel them faster to being a playoff contender.

What he is:

1. A TE from Virginia whom all VA fans seem to have a fascination with but really no other logical reason why we should pick him up. Atlaest with Winslow he was proven against superior talent. His ablity was unquestioned. I could see the hype then. But Miller is less athletic, not as fast. The only thing he has going for him is his size and strength. Hey that's what we need at TE! But not at the #9 pick overall.

[Bat~man]

actually chris cooley is an h-back , he was a TE in college so he is more a TE than h-back , gibbs uses singleback packages a lot so cooley when used is lined up at TE more if cooley was ONLY going to be lined up in the backfield he would be a fullback and i dont know why we would draft a TE to play fullback plus hes a good route runner and catches everything so drafting heath freakin miller to do what cooley does would be a waste of a pick , dont forget a guy named robert royal who caught i think 6 TDs or so as well , we need some line help and some WR help , coles is great but he might be dropped to number 2 WR if he does not get to 100% or close and get some seperation

[TheSteve]

Originally posted by Montilar

And that's how I feel about Edwards or Williams.

I'd much rather get Williamson or clayton, or Rhoddy White or a second tier WR.

Which would mean working a trade down somehow and hopefully getting a 2cd to get a top young center.

Williamson/Baas or Williamson/and the NC center is much much > Edwards or Williams. One of Edwards/Williams I fully expect to be big time bust.

And when you want to argue a deep threat, Williamson is the fastest WR in the draft. At 6-2. When you don't like his stats, he played on an option team; so of course his stats seem small.

You're right Miller is not necessity. but he does upgrade a very important position to Joe Gibbs. And for that reason he should be considered a possibility. Gibbs is the one who said the TE/HB spots are one of the most important positions to his offense.

Also, if Gibbs (or you for that matter) knew what kind of impact Don Warren was going to have during his career, do you not think he would be worth "wasting" a #1 on? I would instantly.

People forget Warren caught the ball also; 244 catches in his redskin career. About twice as many as Clint Didier at the HB spot. but of course Didier and Orr was the reception TE on those teams....

If Gibbs thinks Miller is the best option to upgrade his offense, he will take him. If not, then not.

While I don't expect him to be the pick, it is a possibility. and should be considered.

edit:

Granted that's your opinion.... but he has better hands than Cooley. Believe it or not. Very soft hands. If Gardner had his hands, Gardner would be a pro bowler....

When we drafted Cooley and were discussing Winslow Jr., I remember talk of cooley leading the nation in receptions.

That was wrong. Miller led the TE's in college ball in receptions. Cooley was close; he led in catches per game. But Miller had one more game than cooley.

Have your differences on which WR to choose, but it should not be questioned that it is either a WR or a DL that we need to choose with our number one pick.

If you recall, the one problem our defense had was when Williams did not blitz, we didn't get enough pressure against good Offensive Lines. I can still remember being at the Eaglse game in FedEx and watching McNabb sit back there ALL day when we were rushing four. He literally had 4-5 seconds sometimes to pick us apart. Thankfully we made plays to stay in it, but consistently that will kill you.

On the other hand Offensively our problem was with the WR's. They dropped passes at crucial junctures and were never open. We actually had decent production from the TE spot. A lot of our Red Zone TD's came from either Royal or Cooley. I don't believe the TE spot is as big of weakness as you all would have us believe. Certainly not glaring enough that we need to pick someone at the #9. We found Cooley in the later rounds, and we can find a blocking TE with solid hands in the later rounds. WR is a much greater need.

[Montilar]

dont forget a guy named robert royal who caught i think 6 TDs or so as well ,

How can we forget those 8 catches all season long and 4 td's.

Oh, those 4 td's came because the defenses were keeping a close eye on Cooley as he was our main red zone threat....

Royal was NOT the first or second options.... Ramsey had to wait for him.

Hope he's cleared the case of dropsies he had beginning the year....

[VaSkinsNut]

First off Royal is not a great blocker. He's barely NFL calabur.

Enough, Enough! Enough! Heath Miller is merely a passing fantasy of the Virginia faithful. Instead I direct your attention to a Mike Williams, or Braylon Edwards.

We don't need to draft anymore Rod Gardner or Michael Westbrook clones.

[feeshta]

Originally posted by Jimbo

Adding Miller via the draft just continues to make the Skins a dink and dunk team when we really need to be stretching the field. Without a viable 15+ YPC receiver, Portis is not as effective, Cooley is not as effective, Coles is not as effective and therefore, Ramsey is not as effective. During our Super Bowl seasons, we had the likes of "Downtown" Charlie Brown who averages 21.6 YPC in 1982 and 15.7 in 1983. In 1987, Gary Clark averaged 19 YPC and Ricky Sanders averaged 17 YPC. In 1991, Clark averaged 19.1 YPC.

Gibbs has always had at least one deep threat to offset the always dependable Art Monk. This, combined with a superior O-Line and a grind-it-out running game, kept the defense off-balance. I think Robert Royal or someone like him can get the job done. What we desparately need is someone to stretch the field. A TE like Miller fits into the "nice to have" category but is definitely NOT a necessity.

Actually what we desperately need is someone to fill Monk's shoes. He was the catalyst for all of that in the past. Without Monk, you can't afford to send Clark and Sanders deep so much. Monk was the safety valve. He was what allowed them to be aggressive. They knew they could count on him to get them the first down on third and 8, and that allowed them the luxury of airing it out to Clark and Sanders. If they made the long bomb, great! But the key to the whole thing was being able to recover from not making it. THAT is the key. Monk was the key, and we don't have anybody like him on this team right now.

I think Williams could be our modern day Monk. He takes a lot of heat for his lack of a great Yd/catch average. Guess who else did? Williams has great hands and averages a lot of catches per game. Guess who else did? Williams is a red zone menace, and is simply uncoverable on certain routes. He was a workhorse for USC for two years, and I'm sure he would be honored to come he and have coach Gibbs tell him, "we want you to do what Art Monk used to do for us, make the tough yards."

Now as far as filling the deep threat roles of Clark and Sanders. I say we go after a player like David Patten from NE. With Coles foot hopefully a little better(he claims to feel much better now than earlier in the year), Patten would be a solid, reliable guy who can stretch the field, and also back Coles up in case of injury. Jacobs is also a nice fit in that role as well. With Coles, Patten, and Williams on the field, you have a good mix of matchups, maybe even more so with Jacobs out there. Williams can work underneath where he is vitually unstoppable, with Coles and Patten going slightly deeper. If teams commit help to stopping Williams, which they will probably have to do, then they open up Coles, Patten, Cooley and also Portis. It's a thing of beauty fellas! There are just simply too many mismatches for most any defensive team to handle. As long as Ramsey can learn to find the guy with the right matchup, we are money.

[Gibbs4Life]

Originally posted by Gohan17

I will say I love Heath Miller and would love to have him on this team. That said though we already have a pretty good young TE in Cooly and we need a good number 2 WR to go run with Coles so does drafting him do much for us? If this was college then running with two recieving TE and a WR would be interesting but we can't really do that in the NFL.

Why not the patriots have 2 good receiving tightends, as well as the eagles and the colts. It really opens up the offense. and it means that defenses cant key on one or two players they have to worry about alot of others. I mean really be honest was anyone worried about robert royal last season?

[Gibbs4Life]

Originally posted by Funkyalligator

I still say that we trade down and draft a DE.....but if we have to pick an offensive player we should go with hands first and then speed....Miller doesn't have the speed at all and his hands are okay....

Heath miller has good speed, i've mentioned this before. In order to get open against good defenses in the ACC like tech, Florida state, and miami you have to be pretty fast. He is. And saying millers hands are okay, is like saying jerry rice's hands are okay. He catches everything thrown his way. He doesnt drop balls. He had more tds and more yards than kellen winslow when he was a sophmore and kellen was a junior. The only reason he didn't have another monster year is cause they didn't throw much, and when they did they hardly threw it to heath.

[Gibbs4Life]

Originally posted by TheSteve

Why, should we draft Miller? Let's forget you're a VA fan and thus a fan of Miller, let's forget that. Show me where, when, and how he has demonstrated that he can be an ELITE, not good, but ELITE player at the professional level? He had good numbers in college, but so what? How did he do in the big games, how did he do against quality opponents.

I'm sorry, but you don't go drafting Heath Miller right now, because he is not:

1. Our biggest area of need.

2. The addition that will benefit this team the most and propel them faster to being a playoff contender.

What he is:

1. A TE from Virginia whom all VA fans seem to have a fascination with but really no other logical reason why we should pick him up. Atlaest with Winslow he was proven against superior talent. His ablity was unquestioned. I could see the hype then. But Miller is less athletic, not as fast. The only thing he has going for him is his size and strength. Hey that's what we need at TE! But not at the #9 pick overall.

This was millers 2003 season, when he had a pretty good qb throwing to him and they actaully passed the ball back then. This last season all they did was run. And by the way one week miller one the ACC lineman of the week award, over elton brown and alex barron .

One of the most productive tight ends in the nation with one of the best seasons by a tight end in history ... was the leading receiver among tight ends with 70 receptions for 835 yards ... tied for 49th nationally and fourth in the ACC in receptions (5.38 rpg) ... sixth in the conference, tied for 81st in nation, in receiving yards (64.2 ypg) ... set ACC records for tight ends in receptions and yards ... sixth in the ACC with two 100-yard games ... joined Bruce McGonnigal (1989) as UVa's only tight ends with two 100-yard games in a season and the first one to do it in consecutive games (Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech) ... 60 percent of his catches went for either a first down or touchdown (42 of 70) ... led the team in receiving on seven occasions ...led the offense with five catches for 52 yards and a touchdown against Duke in the season opener ... three receptions for 17 yards against South Carolina to lead the team ... three catches for 51 yards at Western Michigan ... led for the fourth time in a row with seven receptions for 94 yards and a score in the come-from-behind win over Wake Forest ...all seven catches resulted in a first down or touchdown ... outjumped a Wake defender to snatch a five-yard scoring toss from Matt Schaub early in the fourth quarter to tie the score at 21 ... on UVa's last drive following Jamaine Winborne's interception in the final minute, he hauled in a 15-yard strike from Schaub to move the ball from Wake's 34 to the 19-yard line ... that catch set up Connor Hughes' 38-yard game-winning field goal with 10 seconds left ...had a relatively quiet game at North Carolina with four catches for 44 yards ... had another big performance in the overtime loss to Clemson with eight grabs for 52 yards and a touchdown ... caught nine balls for 77 yards and a TD vs. #7 Florida State ... three catches, 48 yards vs. Troy State and four for 22 yards the next game vs. N.C. State ... had one reception for a season-long 39 yards against Maryland ... caught six passes for 110 yards and a touchdown to power UVa to a win over Georgia Tech ...named ACC Offensive Lineman of the Week after becoming the first UVa tight end with a 100-yard game in 12 years ... garnered his second consecutive ACC Offensive Lineman of the Week award after having the type of performance most tight ends can only dream about ... hauled in 13 receptions for 145 yards--both career highs--to lead the Cavaliers to a 35-21 win over in-state rival Virginia Tech ...10 of his catches vs. the Hokies went for first downs ... his 13 catches are second-most by a tight end in ACC history ...led the team with 84 receiving yards on four catches vs. Pittsburgh in the Continental Tire Bowl ... hauled in a 52-yard scoring strike from Matt Schaub late in the first quarter for the game's first touchdown ... lettered for the second time.

Highlights:

He had 2 100 yard reception games and 60 percent of his completions went for either a first down or a touchdown threat. That is a playmaking endzone threat. Same can't be said for kellen winslow he had 1 td his last season

in the come-from-behind win over Wake Forest he had seven catches...all seven catches resulted in a first down or touchdown. How is that for clutch

caught nine balls for 77 yards and a TD vs. #7 Florida State

caught six passes for 110 yards and a touchdown to power UVa to a win over Georgia Tech

named ACC Offensive Lineman of the Week after becoming the first UVa tight end with a 100-yard game in 12 years

garnered his second consecutive ACC Offensive Lineman of the Week award after having the type of performance most tight ends can only dream about ... hauled in 13 receptions for 145 yards--both career highs--to lead the Cavaliers to a 35-21 win over in-state rival Virginia Tech. 10 of his 13 catches went for first downs

his 13 catches are second-most by a tight end in ACC history

(i am a huge tech fan and watched that game, heath absolutely abused us. There was no one that could stop him)

This guy is a big time superstar. He is better than winslow for five reasons. 1 he is a monster endzone threat. 2 He is a better catcher than winslow, hands down better hands. He and williams have the best hands in the draft. 3 He is a ten times better blocker than winslow. (read how many acc lineman of the week awards he won over great lineman in the acc, especially as a tightend) 4. He is stronger than winslow and can break more tackles than winslow. ( winslow might juke someone out of a tackle alot better, but for just sheer power tackle breaking heath has it hands down) 5. He is a gibbs type player whose quiet and does his job and gets back in the huddle, he's not an f'in soldier)

These right here are all very logical reasons:D

[a_good_brotha]

We don't need Heath Miller or any tight end with our 1st round pick. We have bigger holes to fill: WR to compliment Coles, o-line help. Not only at center, but I think we need to bring in a guard to take over for Dockery. I'm not saying get rid of him. We should let him develop before he starts again. Oh, and a DE. I don't care if these needs get fixed through draft or free agency. Just make it happen.

[dfitzo53]

We picked up 3 or 4 TEs last year between FA and the draft if I'm not mistaken (when you include Cooley). I just don't think we can justify going out this year and spending the ninth pick in the draft on a position that we all know just isn't our most pressing need right now.

While Cooley may not be strictly a TE, he basically fills that role. A relatively large number of his catches were for TDs, meaning he's the go to guy at the goalline, a traditional TE role. He also has the speed to get at least semi-vertical, so Miller would be a waste.

As far as Coles goes, I'd say his ability to be a deep threat depends on his toe. He has the speed if he's healthy, but that's a big if. The way he's putting off surgery it may be better to find somebody else to fill that speedster role. I'm a big proponent of building through the draft, but a fast free agent like Joey Porter could be another option.

[Snagletooth]

I don't think we will be able to exploit any mismaches in the passing game with any consistency until we shore up the protection.

[Hooper]

Is Heath Miller (or his mother) posting here at extremeskins? Heath, you're a good prospect, but when you say things like you're better than Kellen Winslow, it makes me wonder if you have a drug problem. Hey, I hope so. Your stock would plummet and the skins could pick you up in the later rounds, where it would make sense for them to get a tight end.