Miller AND Cooly?

[Ernie5]

I'm all about trading down -- no matter who we wind up taking. Obviously, one needs a dance partner and a fair deal, but I'd love to get that 2nd rounder back (although I believe that last year's trade of the 2nd for Cooley was a smart one).

[Gohan17]

Big ole Elton Brown would be a nice addition to the line. It would mean that we have given up on Dockery who I still think is developing nicely, slowly but nevertheless nicely.

Our biggest need on the line is Center so I'm pulling for Baas. I know he only played the position this year, but he also played Guard every year before that and did a fine job. Throw him in the middle and with Jansen comming back we are good to go. I know we suffered on the interior last year but I think our guards are fine. We just need the anchor in the middle to close the gap

[Ernie5]

I'm not sure drafting Elton Brown would necessarily mean we're giving up on Dockery. For one thing, it would add to the competition, but we also may lose Samuels, so it could wind up being a greater need position.

[Mister Happy]

Originally posted by Gibbs4Life

And by the way one week miller one the ACC lineman of the week award, over elton brown and alex barron

I think he's won that award more than once.

However, that award was mostly for his receiving, not his blocking. Look it up. I'm sure you'll find that the times he won he had a big day receiving.

He is not as good of a blocker as offensive linemen.

[Mister Happy]

People are saying we need Heath Miller to open up the passing game.

If that's you're goal, then why not get a receiver?

There have been 5 TEs in NFL history that have gotten multiple 1000 yard receiving seasons. A 1st round receiver is considered a bust if he doesn't do that, but a TE is considered a Hall of Famer if he does do it.

Hopefully I don't need to go on about why a receiver helps the passing game more than a TE. Just think of it like this: who would you rather draft: the next Jerry Rice or the next Tony Gonzalez?

I've never heard anybody question whether Heath Miller would be available at pick 9. In fact, most people are advocating trading down to pick him.

It's pretty clear that he is not the same level of a prospect as Kellen Winslow last year, where if he was available at pick 9, you would have to seriously conisder taking him.

There is only 1 good reason to draft Heath. That is if there is not a receiver in the draft worth taking in the first round.

If you think there is a 1st round caliber receiver then chances are that he would help "open up the passing game" more than Heath would.

[Dick Edds]

Ernie5, yes they call me "Dick Edds" (it's not a bad thing) - good to meet you. I agree with eveything you are saying. I'm not convinced that Miller would come in and work magic, I just think that is one of the vital roles in Gibbs' offensive system. But regradless I agree that we should trade down our picks no matter what. I'd be surprised if MIke Williams was still there at #9. I would be thrilled if went after O-Line (lots of possibilities there if we trade down and stockpile picks). We are going to have some holes to fill regardless. BUt in the same regards I feel it is difficult to come across college players that have there heads on right. While MIller "may not" seem to be the best choice with our first pick, we also need to think about character and work ethic. Something I think Joe will be able to judge very quickly.

There are a lot of nice O-Lineman out there and I would vbe ery happy if we snagged one of them - just seems you can never have too much depth in the trenches.

Something elese I've been thinking about is that it is obvious Joe has some things to work out with his offensive system. What worked in 91 won't exactly work now - though the concepts of his systetm are still applicable with the right personell. But I would think that Joe will be re-evaluating himself as well as the players. I guess I just see how Shockey (and Crumpler this year) opened th game up for the WR's and RB's in their respective systemts and wonder "why not us" have two hard-working, respectabel, high-charcter, and most of all *smart* TE/HB's on the field at the same time? I am curious to see what types of adjustments Gibb's tries to make. Our defense dominated, even without a several of our starters - and we're getting Lavar & Bowen back - we should def be in the top tier defenses next year again. Whether it is a WR, an OL or a TE I just think it is time to give Ramsey as much amo is possible b/c - I really want to see him become the player that we all hope he can be. He's a tough kid, and could sure use some more passing targets and better line protection regardless of who we draft. I love being able to talk Redskins with you guys - really makes the day seem a lot better!

Hail to em!

[Gibbs4Life]

Originally posted by Mister Happy

People are saying we need Heath Miller to open up the passing game.

If that's you're goal, then why not get a receiver?

There have been 5 TEs in NFL history that have gotten multiple 1000 yard receiving seasons. A 1st round receiver is considered a bust if he doesn't do that, but a TE is considered a Hall of Famer if he does do it.

Hopefully I don't need to go on about why a receiver helps the passing game more than a TE. Just think of it like this: who would you rather draft: the next Jerry Rice or the next Tony Gonzalez?

I've never heard anybody question whether Heath Miller would be available at pick 9. In fact, most people are advocating trading down to pick him.

It's pretty clear that he is not the same level of a prospect as Kellen Winslow last year, where if he was available at pick 9, you would have to seriously conisder taking him.

There is only 1 good reason to draft Heath. That is if there is not a receiver in the draft worth taking in the first round.

If you think there is a 1st round caliber receiver then chances are that he would help "open up the passing game" more than Heath would.

I think you just brought up a great point that i forgot to mention earlier. I'm not advocating taking heath miller at the #9 spot. Mainly cause he won't be taken until denver's pick. Im saying that if edwards or williams are gone at wr we should trade down pick up an extra pick and get miller

I don't think anyone wants to take miller at 9 when we can take him at like 19 and get and extra pick. That'd be stupid

[Ernie5]

Certainly, Miller works better at 19 than 9, but I think there are better options all the way around. Obviously, it depends on what happens over the next couple of months. Does Smoot stay? Does Samuels stay? I'm super high on Pac Man Jones, but it wouldn't make much sense to draft a CB with a first if Smoot ticks around. Ditto for an O-lineman if Samuels stays. My sense is that if Gibbs alters his system to work a pass-catching TE into the mix a little more, Cooley and Royal can handle that. Maybe Alex Smith from Stanford in the second or third round. I'm just not sold on drafting a TE in the first when we can go WR, DE, DT, CB, even O-line and have a greater impact (with or without more picks).

[Mister Happy]

Originally posted by Gibbs4Life

I think you just brought up a great point that i forgot to mention earlier. I'm not advocating taking heath miller at the #9 spot. Mainly cause he won't be taken until denver's pick. Im saying that if edwards or williams are gone at wr we should trade down pick up an extra pick and get miller

I don't think anyone wants to take miller at 9 when we can take him at like 19 and get and extra pick. That'd be stupid

I always assume that when someone says draft Heath Miller that they mean trade down to get him.

The point is that Heath Miller is not an elite tight end prospect. It would have been a shock for Kellen Winslow to DROP to pick #9, but with Heath, there is not even a consideration that he would RISE to pick #9.

If you are looking to upgrade the passing game, you don't draft a good, but not great tight end, if you can get an elite receiver. That's why the only reason we go with Heath is, like you said, if there aren't any good WR options left.

Some people aren't saying what you are saying. Some people would rather have Heath than any receiver on the board.

That's what I don't agree with. The only way that works is if this is like the 2000 draft, where there are no good receivers.

Some people think the trend is to have an Antonio Gates to "open up the passing game." What they don't notice is that San Diego had the #16 passing offense. Witten's Cowboys were #15, and Crumpler's Falcons were #30.

To me, if you want the elite passing offense, the trend is to have multiple #1 receivers, like the Colts, Vikings, Packers and Rams.