NEEDAQB Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 I am not saying Ramsey is a terrible QB. But he does not win you games. That is the difference in the NFL these days Good Qbs do not need to be " groomed" for 4 years Good QBs do not make the same mistakes in their second year as they did in their third year. Example Ramsey over throws Coles in the end zone last year on a two point try to tie the game at Philly. You would think he would learn from that game and beat the Eagles the next year. Well this year he over throws Cooley in the end zone. You can not keep waiting for a QB to learn. The defense is good enough for a 14-2 team this year. He misses wide open guys in the over the field His problem is he just does not seem smart enough to play . That is why teams always bring the house against him . When a team brings the house, it is up to the QB to know where the wide open receiver is. No offensive line can block 8 men coming at the QB. If you notice Peyton Manning reads the defense before the snap and knows where all 4 wide outs are. He does just sit back in the pocket in survey the field. Defenses are too good and fast these days. But Spurrier, the offensive line and Gibbs get the blame . People look at how many times he was hurried and sacked and they say poor Ramsey. What offensive line can protect a QB from a all out blitz? If he can not make a quick read and throw with accuracy he is worthless because we all know he is not athletic enough to pick up a first down with his legs. And why are people saying replace everybody accept the director of the ship? In terms of skilled positions and offensive line we have some of the highest paid and best players in the league Chris Samuels has not been burned much all year. I have yet to hear of a defensive end killing Samuels. Randy Thomas is one of the best guards. Yes there are a couple of veteran replacements at tackle and center but you are not going to have a pro bowl offensive line with the salary cap. Then people talk about wide receivers. Coles was great until he came here. Gardner in his rookie season with Tony Banks had the most catches on the team. Cooley is a threat. You are telling me Ramsey does not have enough around him to score 20 points ppg? Take out QB and compare the Redskins with the top 6 teams. Falcons , Eagles, Colts, Pats, Steelers and Buffalo for arguments sake. Put the redskins offensive line and wide receivers and running back vs. those teams. Besides the Colts I find it hard to believe those offenses have more talent then the Redskins. But then you put the QB into the equation and it is a different story. It all starts with the QB . Coaches and players always like to avoid the subject because they do not want blame on one player. Just look at the Falcons without Vick vs. the saints. It was like watching a JV team. Look at the Rams without Bulger. The reason the Redskins have been for 11 years is they chose to ignore the positions of QB. The ( one year they got a good QB they made the playoffs) Then they decided that QB is not worth the money and let him go . It is going to be ashamed if the Redskins draft Mike Williams to replace Gardner. Get 3 high paid offensive linemen. And the offense is going to be the same. Teams will still stack the line force us to throw. And Ramsey will not beat them deep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the big slim Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 That is a nice opinion.......However, I don't agree.... I believe Ramsey is a future pro bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhhorus Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 the skins don't have the same talent level on offense as the Colts, Pats, Steelers and Buffalo. Even if you remove the QB from the equation. They all have better O-lines and better WRs. End of story. Coles is good, Gardner is a stiff, Cooley is interesting. Chris Samuels has gotten beaten regularly this year, see the first Giants game, the Steelers game, the Browns game, Chicago game, both Dallas games and the Ravens games for evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet daddy Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Welcome Newbie...good luck with that as your first post....I have to respectfully disagree...we have seen PR have some great games....am I saying he is completly without fault...no...but compare his stats, wins and loses to some of the better QB's in the league through there first sixteen or seventeen starts. Also don't forget that under Gibbs system we are max protect and few recievers in the field. Under this senario we should have all day to throw and it just doesnt happen. Now this system will work. Only two recievers running down field can get open they just need alot of time...more than average...probably 4 to 7 secs....I think we are at probably max 3 to 4 secs right now and often less... IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEvilGeniuz Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 the pass to cooley was catchable, he had no choice but to put it there because if he didnt, that wouldve been a INT. Ramsey is getting better, and we see it each week. it takes time man, be patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins0128 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 The last series of the game... Run, run, run...Punt All on Ramsey's head. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEDAQB Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 thats what drives me crazy. I am not good at predicting future. All i can do is stay my opinion on what i see. All i see is the last ranked passing offense in the NFL. All i see is teams stacking the line because they know the QB can not beat them. If the Redskins offensive line was so bad teams would not blitz so much. All the praise on Ramsey is about the future. But all i know is Since 01 the Redskins have upgraded, the whole offensiveline recievers (speed) tight ends running back But not QB. The one year they upgraded QB ,they were a bad snap and the prevent defense of Mike Nolan away from being in the NFC title game. Then the year after we let that QB go in free agency. He wins the super bowl. the year we benched that QB he was 7 -4. While the big arm talented QB in Jeff George( who Snyder personally brought in) won one game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bwall-2 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Very good post.It's nice to hear from somebody who hasn't put Ramsey in the Hall Of Fame.But be prepared,there some people on this board that will not tolerate you bashing the greatest QB ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan93 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Originally posted by bwall-2 Very good post.It's nice to hear from somebody who hasn't put Ramsey in the Hall Of Fame.But be prepared,there some people on this board that will not tolerate you bashing the greatest QB ever. So true... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEDAQB Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 Originally posted by cstewa Welcome Newbie...good luck with that as your first post....I have to respectfully disagree...we have seen PR have some great games....am I saying he is completly without fault...no...but compare his stats, wins and loses to some of the better QB's in the league through there first sixteen or seventeen starts. Also don't forget that under Gibbs system we are max protect and few recievers in the field. Under this senario we should have all day to throw and it just doesnt happen. Now this system will work. Only two recievers running down field can get open they just need alot of time...more than average...probably 4 to 7 secs....I think we are at probably max 3 to 4 secs right now and often less... IMHO Well what is the best offense Ramsey can run? We went 4 wide outs last year and he was getting killed. We are going max protect this year and he we are not scoring points. I just do not understand how people bash everybody accept Ramsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins0128 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Originally posted by NEEDAQB thats what drives me crazy. I am not good at predicting future. All i can do is stay my opinion on what i see. All i see is the last ranked passing offense in the NFL. All i see is teams stacking the line because they know the QB can not beat them. If the Redskins offensive line was so bad teams would not blitz so much. All the praise on Ramsey is about the future. But all i know is Since 01 the Redskins have upgraded, the whole offensiveline recievers (speed) tight ends running back But not QB. The one year they upgraded QB ,they were a bad snap and the prevent defense of Mike Nolan away from being in the NFC title game. Then the year after we let that QB go in free agency. He wins the super bowl. the year we benched that QB he was 7 -4. While the big arm talented QB in Jeff George( who Snyder personally brought in) won one game. They tried to upgrade the QB position, and we ended up with Brunell. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dks1240 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 needaqb, are you offering your services as our new QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Money Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Nice posts now crawl back to that hole you were in before this morning... :troll: :troll: :troll: :troll: :troll: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet daddy Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Well I think the current system is going to be the best. I mean with a tight end, H back and tailback in blocking there is no way we should have the problems with sacks and hurry's like we do. And I don't think it is ramsey holding the ball to long because they are there in 3 secs and less often....It is probably not the talent on the O-line but the continuity. There was an article a couple of months ago about the shuffling. Bubba posted it. It really detailed how many changes there have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEDAQB Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 Originally posted by skins0128 They tried to upgrade the QB position, and we ended up with Brunell. :doh: lol yes. That is the teams problem. They think the position of QB is not important. I guess because Gibbs won with some average QBs in the 80s. But the game has changed. You can not build the " hogs" anymore because the salary cap. It is almost like the team is scared to draft another Heath Shuler so they are ignoring the position all together. Brunell was a joke. That is what i am talking about . They seem to think QB is not important. How do you trade for a guy that who has just been benched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Originally posted by NEEDAQB Well what is the best offense Ramsey can run? We went 4 wide outs last year and he was getting killed. We are going max protect this year and he we are not scoring points. I just do not understand how people bash everybody accept Ramsey Yes, we have been going max protect but I'm sure you've noticed that our max protect isn't effective. And as for scoring points you have to be agressive which is something this current offensive system is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEDAQB Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 Redskins (5th) pick right now needs to be traded for a QB Offensive line can not be drafted that high. Since they do have two very good tackles in Jansen and Samuels. Nobody is going to draft a center or guard 5th. I think the team is deep at the Wide out position the defense is ranked number 2. And think about this. If the Redskins had a passing game. That would free up holes for Portis and keep the defense off the feild. THE DEFENSE WOULD BE NUMBER 1 by a mile. The Steelers defense is bearly on the feild and they areonly 50 yards ahead of us i belive. So defense does not need to be drafted for the 5th pick Dangle the 5th pick to one of these teams in the playoffs with a good QB and see if they bite. That is what i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 :doh: Not this crap again. I'll leave it at this: well-respected folks from outside the organization, like Jaworski and Moose Johnston, have all praised Ramsey and have advised us to stay the course. For those who think Ramsey's time has come and gone (or never came at all), I guess Jaws and Co. are a bunch of blithering talking heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Originally posted by NEEDAQB Redskins (5th) pick right now needs to be traded for a QB Offensive line can not be drafted that high. Since they do have two very good tackles in Jansen and Samuels. Nobody is going to draft a center or guard 5th. I think the team is deep at the Wide out position the defense is ranked number 2. And think about this. If the Redskins had a passing game. That would free up holes for Portis and keep the defense off the feild. THE DEFENSE WOULD BE NUMBER 1 by a mile. The Steelers defense is bearly on the feild and they areonly 50 yards ahead of us i belive. So defense does not need to be drafted for the 5th pick Dangle the 5th pick to one of these teams in the playoffs with a good QB and see if they bite. That is what i think Ok NEEDAQB. Who do you suggest trading this draft pick for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 I disagree - if you look at some of the best QB's in the league, they either sat on the bench (Pennington, Brees) for a period of time, or, just now, after years, they are starting to hit their peak and play VERY well (Manning, McNabb). And while I don't think you are going to groom a QB for four years, a two-year grooming period is not a bad idea. And if you really look at it, Ramsey has not started an entire 16-game season, had stability in any area, or had the chance to get the 100% nod from his coach to really shine. (Heck, look at Brad Johnson - he is in his mid 30's and just won his first SB a couple of years ago.) And if you think Ramsey is a bust, what about Carr and Harrington? They haven't exactly taken over the league with their play, so does that mean the 2002 QB class is a bust? I think it is still FAR too early to see where Ramsey may progress as a QB, even at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NEEDAQB Posted December 30, 2004 Author Share Posted December 30, 2004 Originally posted by goldenster95 :doh: Not this crap again. I'll leave it at this: well-respected folks from outside the organization, like Jaworski and Moose Johnston, have all praised Ramsey and have advised us to stay the course. For those who think Ramsey's time has come and gone (or never came at all), I guess Jaws and Co. are a bunch of blithering talking heads. simple as this. Ramsey was not drafted high. So there are no high expectations on him. If this was kid was the 5th pick in the draft coming into a team with a hall of fame coach, super star running back, 2 of the top tackles in the league a pro bowl speed receiver and leader in catches in college football TE. People would be calling for his head. But since he was drafted 31st and not making big money announcers and fans feel it necessary not to bash him Look at Joey Harrington. He is bashed every day. The reason he is bashed is because he was drafted in the top 5 and is making the big bucks. With big bucks comes expectations. Harrington and Ramsey are about the same in producation when Ramsy has more talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Well, I don't think max protect is going to cut it anymore. But I think three huge factors that affected the offensive output: 1. As most of us know, an ineffective OL. 2. A lack of plays, such as multiple WR sets, to spread the offense. 3. Down field passing Ramsey can only do so much, and did pretty well, considering the system that he was running under Gibbs. And Gibbs obviously decided to scale back the playbook due to the OL and other factors. So you really cannot put this all on Ramsey's head - that'd be unfair. (And, as someone mentioned, factors #2 and #2 are related to #1.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHUBAKAH Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 :munchout: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 Originally posted by NEEDAQB simple as this. Ramsey was not drafted high. So there are no high expectations on him. If this was kid was the 5th pick in the draft coming into a team with a hall of fame coach, super star running back, 2 of the top tackles in the league a pro bowl speed receiver and leader in catches in college football TE. People would be calling for his head. But since he was drafted 31st and not making big money announcers and fans feel it necessary not to bash him Look at Joey Harrington. He is bashed every day. The reason he is bashed is because he was drafted in the top 5 and is making the big bucks. With big bucks comes expectations. Harrington and Ramsey are about the same in producation when Ramsy has more talent That, at best, is wild speculation. Carr was drafted first overall. Is he getting bashed? No. And not only is Ramsey not getting bashed, but he's getting loads of adulation lavished on him by QB experts like Jaworski. Your credibility, the little that you had of it, was dashed when you said Ramsey wasn't smart. That's one of his prime attributes. Not only did the guy graduate in less than three years, he did so with a double major and with honors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeB Posted December 30, 2004 Share Posted December 30, 2004 One word for you newbie... SPELLCHECK let's add two more... GRAMMAR CHECK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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