mookie0720 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Riggins averaged less YPC than Portis over his career as a Redskin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookie0720 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Let's just be happy this trade allowed us to draft Sean Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pr11fan Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Originally posted by SkinsFan03 Steven Jackson? Are you joking? The only back who would have done significantly better behind this line is Jim Brown. Get real. Point is, if we took Jackon, we could've had a future dominant center like Grove who certainly would've been an upgrade over Raymer this year, (who wouldn't??) Not too mention those 2 would've come a hell of alot cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cool Hand Loki Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Point is, if or once CP gets some freaking blocking this topic will never arise again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty Gut Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 If Portis is indeed our franchise back, we need to use him out the backfield some morel. Sorta in the same mold LT is used in SD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snagletooth Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Joe wants to be physical on the offensive side of the ball. Do the zone blocking schemes, that lend themselves to Portis's style, make for a physical attack? Is it a finesse running style? Or is a commitment to the run, no matter the scheme, physical in its self? We saw a good balance between zone blocking and counter, smashmouth, type plays in the Giants game. Ultimiately this is what I would expect form a Joe GIbbs offense with Portis as the feature back. I don't see Portis ever reching his potential behind the traditional Gibbs/Bugle scheme. And I don't see Portis going anywhere with his contract. Gibbs will have to adapt. The question is how much. Can the zone blocking be a physical attack? Or will Joe have to move away from this philosophy entirely? Maybe with improved talent along the Oline we can see a successfull melding of the two styles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w33dh0l3 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Originally posted by SkinsFan03 Steven Jackson? Are you joking? The only back who would have done significantly better behind this line is Jim Brown. Get real. lol touche touche lol.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtyler42 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Originally posted by Mittens I don't believe in that "can't trade" talk. If finding a player that fits your team better than the one you currently have means having some dead money for a year or two, then it's worth it. As in develop do you mean get bigger? How else would Portis be a Gibbs type back? If Portis doesn't put on weight, then Gibbs needs to run a Portis style offense. Well who would you say fits our team better, and who do you think would want Portis? When I say develop into a Gibbs back I mean to become more patient and allow his blocking to set...Gibbs did have Joe Washington as his starting RB in the 80's and he was smaller than Portis, so this scheme can work with him... The counter Trey doesnt need to be scrapped either, numerous other teams run this play and run it to perfection, so dont think Gibbs will get rid of it, Portis just didnt execute this play right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 The Becht-Ellis-Jordan deal wouldn't work because all 3 of those guys are in their last years of their contract. Having to resign all of them would be a hassle. Plus none of them have the talent Portis has, but we're not utliziing Portis properly anyway, so it's a wash. What we should have done(hindsight is 20/20 I know)is trade Champ to the Broncos for just their 1st rounder. Then sign Duce Staley in FA and with the Broncos pick take Jake Grove, the C from VA Tech. Staley fits our offense perfectly and Grove is worlds better then Cory Raymer and Lennie Friedman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_dallas Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I don't think the trade was a good move for the Skins- I didn't at the time, either. Yes, Champ had to be traded, but the help that was needed for the Skins (more than a RB) was a DE that could rush the passer. The defense ended up being much, much better than I expected, but the lasck of a pass rush jumped up and bit the Skins on more than one occassion. Champ could have garnered John Abraham, for instance, and possible a pick in return. I think that would have been a much wiser move, and thought so at the time. I also felt like Betts was a good back and perfect for Gibbs and even if Betts wasn't the answer, I feel like RBs are the easiest and cheapest players to indentify in the draft. I dunno...I'm sure Gibbs will find a way to make it work, but I don't know how anyone could be hppy with the seasdon Portis had. You can complain about the line all you want, but Betts performed better when he was in there with the SAME line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Portis is a pro-bowl alternate despite playing on a terrible offense. He's not part of the problem. There are lots of things that need to be addressed this offseason. RB isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I think many people have short memories. I can remember so many runs where it appeared Portis was underneath a pile, just to see him squirt out and pick up an extra 3-5 yards. It's hard to be a great running back when your O-line sucks, and you are constantly being hit in the backfield. Fickle, fickle fans :doh: . The fact that Portis had less than 4.0 yards per carry is a knock on the O-line, not him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phutfut Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 someone tell me why champ made it to the pro bowl again? If I recall correctly, he got sh*tted on by a lot of receivers this year.. there is no shut down corner in the NFL anymore because of the new rules. The trade was fine, our corners did better than champ and we gained a pro bowl back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_dallas Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Portis is a pro-bowl alternate despite playing on a terrible offense. He's not part of the problem. With all due, though- he led the NFL in fumbles lost (among RBs), and was last in TDs as well as YPC (among starting RBs). That's not what you want out of a 2nd round pick, Champ Bailey, and $50 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afparent Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Actually Portis had a bad year....now that is a good thing. Imagine what a good or great year will bring us. In other words, he can only go up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinsNation Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Originally posted by afparent Actually Portis had a bad year....now that is a good thing. Imagine what a good or great year will bring us. In other words, he can only go up! He did have a bad year.... and a ton of fumbles. Although I didnt expect a 1,500 yd season...I did expect some consistency which CP lacked. The line is part of the blame, the new system is also part to blame....as for the fumbles well thats something he needs to work on. I think he will improve next year w/a year under his belt in this system. I wish CP played w/a little more anger/attitude like Betts. Betts is always fired up and causing a ruckus and he seems to run harder in general even though he's not as fast in terms of pure speed. I love Betts' fight and Im looking forward to seeing him this week as the starter. BUT, I dont think Champ was all that in Denver so I dont consider the deal a bust by any means. Springs played as good if not better than Champ did in his best year(s). If you dont think that then you are kidding yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHUBAKAH Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Originally posted by afparent Actually Portis had a bad year....now that is a good thing. Imagine what a good or great year will bring us. In other words, he can only go up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyster Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Originally posted by f_dallas With all due, though- he led the NFL in fumbles lost (among RBs), and was last in TDs as well as YPC (among starting RBs). That's not what you want out of a 2nd round pick, Champ Bailey, and $50 million. Its easy to make your point when you make up stats. You're just a Redskins hater, go back to a Philly board. Michael Pittman leads the league in lost fumbles with 5. Portis had 4, tied with other "terrible" running backs like Chris Brown, Rudi Johnson, Ahman Green, Dominack Davis, and Deuce McAllister. In terms of fumbles (not just lost fumbles), Tomlinson had 6 (compared to Portis' 5). Oh, and by the way, he had more rushing TDs than Brian Westbrook and Fred Taylor, who I believe are starting RBs. Also, if you go by total TDs, he equaled Ahman Green and Duce McAllister and beat Jamal Lewis and Chris Brown. Yeah, those guys all suck. You make up stats, you don't know what you're talking about, and you're a dirty Eagles fan, so shut your trap. \Edited due to a statistical mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpskins Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 The way I see it, there are two interplaying issues at hand. The first is whether Portis is an elite RB. I personally feel he is not an elite RB, though this was not my opinion at the time of the trade. My opinion may be slightly biased by the fact that I really don't like small RBs (though, Portis is not as small as he is made out to be). I prefer bigger RBs, like Chris Brown and Willis McGahee (who I think is an elite RB, and the prototype for what I would want in a RB). However, in many ways, I think this question is irrelevant. This year, more than any other, has demonstrated the overwhelming importance of the offensive line as opposed to the actualy RB, when it comes to the running game. The rash of injuries to starting RBs this season, with the more than adequate relief provided by the backups (and, in some instances, backup's backup) is proof enough for me. The blockers and blocking scheme should be our utmost concern heading into the offseason. The second is the merits of the Portis-Bailey trade. I think the mistake many of us are making is that we are only looking at part of the trade in hindsight. If you told Coach Gibbs during the offseason that he would be trading Bailey for a RB who will average 3.8 yards per carry, I'm sure he would have had security escort you out of Redskins Park. But, if someone had told Coach Shanahan that he would be trading his perennial pro-bowl RB for a CB who would give up as many touchdowns as Bailey has, I doubt his reaction would have been much different than Coach Gibbs. Suffice it to say, both players had a down year and the trade doesn't look like it benefited either team. Now, where it gets tricky is that second round draft pick. This was my main objection to the trade and it remains such. However, I will say this. We cannot be sure who the staff would have drafted should we have retained it. And moreover, we can't be sure that person would have been a success here. In the end, I didn't like the trade then. I really don't like it now. But, I think this team can still have great success running the ball. Just need to get the right personnel on the line. On a side note, I hope Coach Bugel has some plans for this offseason. I understand he is a crowd favorite for is colorful quotes, but I find his fortrightness annoying in light of his poor performance. He needs to assess his players and his blocking schemes. This season put to rest all the talks about the Dirtbags and the second coming of the Hogs. Ironically, that is exactly what we need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXREDSKINS44 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Originally posted by afparent Actually Portis had a bad year....now that is a good thing. Imagine what a good or great year will bring us. In other words, he can only go up! That is an positive way to look at it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookie0720 Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 I'm not exactly sure when 1300+ yards became a bad year in an abismal offense with a terrible line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_dallas Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Its easy to make your point when you make up stats. You're just a Redskins hater, go back to a Philly board. Whaaaa:doh: Michael Pittman leads the league in lost fumbles with 5. Well, According to the stats I went from (I used ESPN because NFL.com stats were down at the time), you are wrong Portis leads league- not Pittman. If/when the NFL stats come back online, I'll check it out on that site, but don't accuse me of making up stats- I've provided a link. Portis had 4, tied with other "terrible" running backs like Chris Brown, Rudi Johnson, Ahman Green, Dominack Davis, and Deuce McAllister. When did I say Portis was "terrible"? I said he had more fumbles than all of those guys this year (which he did) and he was last in the league in YPC among the healthy #1 backs (which he is). If you have a problem with statistical facts, your beef isn't with me. In terms of fumbles (not just lost fumbles), Tomlinson had 6 (compared to Portis' 5) Well, for one- that's unimportant. No matter how you slice it, Portis had a dissapointing year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenic Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Champ was leaving regardless. Atleast we got something for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
troyster Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Originally posted by f_dallas Whaaaa:doh: Well, According to the stats I went from (I used ESPN because NFL.com stats were down at the time), you are wrong Portis leads league- not Pittman. Pittman leads according to Yahoo Sports I still think you're a jacko for living on a Skins site. I don't care about your opinions, being a Philly fan, your opinion means nothing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_dallas Posted December 29, 2004 Share Posted December 29, 2004 Pittman leads according to Yahoo Sports First, I said I used ESPN and provided a link. You used Yahoo and provided a link- I think that you owe me an apology for accusing me of making up a stat- you were wrong because I didn't make it up. Second, you could easily be correct on Pittman having more fumbles- I only have the espn stat to fall back on, not memory or anything...that was NEVER the point. This thread isn't titled "Is Portis more surehanded than Pittman". That stat was one in a list of stats that proved Portis did not have a great year- the fact that you are focussing on Pittman fumbling one more time than Portis kinda proves that you realize Portis had a bad year, by his standards and expectations. If your stats is correct (which it easily could be), where are we? Portis is slightly better at not fumbling than a scrub back in Tampa? Not exactly the brass ring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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