Dirk Diggler Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Now, I expect the poll results to be rather skewed being that this is a Skins message board. However, I am more interested in people supporting their reasoning than the poll results. Take "better" however you want to mean it. Posters are welcome to mention any types of stats to support their arguments, schedule, injuries or lack thereof. etc. I am PARTICULARLY interested in what Eagle and Giants fans have to say since they are clearly unbiased. Or at least they should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAB Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Redskins. They did it with the new emphasis put on the pass interference rules. Also, I just think our defensive coaches are a little better than the Cowboys... better schemes. Last years Dallas D wasn't as bad as some here like to think though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 I would give the edge to Washington merely because we have done it without a good Pass rusher, and with a new injury every week to our secondary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookie0720 Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Washington. Not only are we ranked higher but we have better players, better athletes, more playmakers, and a better coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanders 83 Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 I say Dallas, because...... ..... .... ah who am I kididng, I am a total homer, the skins clearly have the better defense. No reason is necessary, its the Cowgirls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Dallas because they carried their team to the playoffs ............................ and because they own us:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins4SB Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Skins. Look what kind of player we did it with. Ryan Clark, Demetric Evans, Ron Warner, Chris Clemons, Lamar Marshall, Antonio Pierce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAMB0 Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 and Salvea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrisbob74 Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Both D's from their respective years are similiar in that they are solid units but lack a true pass rushing beast on the DL. They do the simple things well, tackling, playing within the scheme. I voted for the Skins purely because our D had to deal with an O that couldn't put points on the board for the majority of the season and even though Dallas O in 2003 wasn't great, it at least was good enough to take advantage when it's D made plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 The Redskins have been consistently better. As last season wore on, teams got on to what Dallas was doing, and started gashing them. That really hasn't happened to the Redskins (last Sunday notwithstanding :doh: ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleSteve Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Originally posted by SonnyJ The Redskins have been consistently better. As last season wore on, teams got on to what Dallas was doing, and started gashing them. I have to agree with this statement. There was a noticeable drop off later in the season for last year's Cowboys defense. The Redskins have maintained their intensity throughout the season. A better question might be which offense supported their defense less, the 2003 Cowboys or the 2004 Redskins. It can be argued that the Dallas dropoff was caused by an inept offense constantly placing the defense in bad position. Still, somehow Parcells coaxed 10 wins out of that team last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 The Cowboys got spanked by several teams the second half of the season, the Redskins Defense never let up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neophyte Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 I said the Redskins. I think they did it all season long rather than just the first 10 games or so and I think they did it with more changes of personel due to injury. Granted, the Cowboys made the playoffs last year and we did not but I think that is more due to them having more support from the offense. In fact, if our offense has scored as many points as theirs did last year we would not only be a playoff team, we would have been hosting a first round game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 There is nothing about the Redskins that is better than the Cowboys. Not until we beat them. Scoreboard, folks. Learn it, Live it, Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashback Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Cowboys last year were #1 in Total Defense, #2 in scoring defense. You guys are #2 and #5, respectively. The Cowboys defense was also asked to protect a lead every once in a while. The 2004 Redskins' D is more like the 2001 Cowboys D. Good, but you don't know how good, because so many of the games weren't competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Originally posted by Kilmer The Cowboys got spanked by several teams the second half of the season, the Redskins Defense never let up. Oh yes they did. Oh yes... they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neophyte Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Originally posted by flashback The 2004 Redskins' D is more like the 2001 Cowboys D. Good, but you don't know how good, because so many of the games weren't competitive. How do you figure so games were not competitive? We have had 3 losses by more than 7 points all season and all 3 were to teams going to the playoffs, 2 two Pitt and Philly. No other game was decided by more than 7 and most were by 3 or 4 points. I call that competitive. If the offense averages just one TD more a game (or gives up just one TD less in several cases), then this team is hosting a game the second week in Jan and has to be considered a contender in the weak NFC. It is always easier to play defense with a lead and if it is a lead of over a TD then it gets easier still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psutrain Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Originally posted by flashback Cowboys last year were #1 in Total Defense, #2 in scoring defense. You guys are #2 and #5, respectively. The Cowboys defense was also asked to protect a lead every once in a while. The 2004 Redskins' D is more like the 2001 Cowboys D. Good, but you don't know how good, because so many of the games weren't competitive. good post I would also add a playoff defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[[ghost]] Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 not competetive? weren't like half our games decided by 7 or less points? i call that competative. now if only we can get a strong widereciever, and pick up some key o-lineman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashback Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 If the Redskins offense scared anybody, opposing teams would open up their offense a little bit to try and put some points on the board. Teams are playing very conservatively against your defense, because a) they know they don’t need to light up the scoreboard to beat you, and it’s a damn good defense, and they don’t want to make a big mistake that gets you guys back in the game. Also, because the O is so pathetic in Washington, you’re giving teams a short field via turnovers and the punting game, so your ypg stat is skewed down. Take the Bengals game for example. Do you really think that when they were up 17 – 0 that was a competitive game? You blew out the Giants, but I can’t help but notice that was Eli’s 3rd start, and I think its pretty foolish to argue about all 32 games for both defenses, so I’ll stop now. The Cowboys defense in 2003 was one of the best defenses of all time, statistically. It only took two eyes and a rudimentary knowledge of the game to actually see them play and come to the conclusion that they weren’t on par with the Steel Curtain, or the 85 Bears, or the 2001 Ravens. But they were the best in the NFL in 2003, which is a claim the Redskins can’t make in 2004. They did win 10 games and go to the play-offs, which is another item missing from the Redskins D 2004 resume. The Redskins D in 2004 is a really good one, and very surprising considering where they came from, and who their play-makers are. But they haven’t had as good a year as the Cowboys had in 2003. Even though the Cowboys went 5-5 down the stretch (still better than any 10-game stretch the Redskins have had this year), they’re 2 worst losses were to the Dolphins and Eagles, Thanksgiving and the next game, where they gave up 40 and 36 points. BTW, that includes the TD by Jason Taylor, the safety by the Eagles, and a 27 yard drive set up by a QC pick. However, in the other 8 games in that stretch, the Cowboys D gave up 16, 14, 6, 12, 20, 0, 3, and 13 points. I don’t have to tell who the 0 is, do I? Hardly a series of blowouts. I’ll concede that the Redskins defense has been more consistent in 2004, but I still say the Cowboys of 2003 were the better defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blade Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 The Cowboys went 10-6 in 03...the Redskins are going to be at best 6-10 in '04. The defense of the 03 Cowboys made plays to help the team to a better record. To quote Parcells, "You are as good as your record says you are." I LOVED seeing our Defense actually step up and be something I could be proud of as a Skins fan, but unfortunately, I have to agree with Parcells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted December 28, 2004 Author Share Posted December 28, 2004 Flashback The Cowboys defense in 2003 was one of the best of all time statistically? Could you please support that ridiculously claim with some actual statistics and how they compare to the other "best defenses" of all time like say the 2000 Ravens and Titans, 85 Bears, 86 Giants, 77 Steelers. Thanks Dirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashback Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 Dirk- Here you go, my man. http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-TOTAL/2003/regular?sort_col_1=4 They set the record for lowest completion percentage allowed and the lowest passer rating allowed. I guess you'd have to qualify that with it being in the "modern era", since they didn't used to pass much. But if you didn't know that they had a monster year statistically, you weren't really paying attention, were you? Edit: Also check out this page. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/statitudes/news/2000/12/14/charting_defenses/ Notice that the Cowboys 253 ypg is second only to the 2000 Ravens. I know, the Titans gave up even fewer yards, but that's why I said that the 2003 Cowboys weren't on par with these great defenses. However, you can't argue that just by looking at the stats, that D was at least comparable to these all-timers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DallasInDC Posted December 28, 2004 Share Posted December 28, 2004 To be quite honest, I think both defenses are on par with each other. If I had to choose one, I would have to say that the 04 redskins are marginally better than the 03 Cowboys based on points allowed and that the skins offense performed more poorly than Dallas' offense did last year. Statistically the defenses are nearly identical in almost every aspect. However, that could change after next weeks game given the probable absence of Jimoh, Lavar and Smoot. Here is the comparison of the two teams: Defense Statistic ….. 04 Washington ….. 03 Dallas ….. Variance ….. Advantage Games ….. 15 ….. 16 Statistical Rank ….. 2 ….. 1 Total Yds ….. 3,961 ….. 4,056 ….. -95 ….. Washington Yds/game ….. 264.1 ….. 253.5 ….. 10.6 ….. Dallas Total Pts ….. 205 ….. 240 ….. -35 ….. Washington Pts./Game ….. 13.7 ….. 16.0 ….. -2.3 ….. Washington TD's ….. 22 ….. 25 ….. -3 ….. Washington FG's ….. 16 ….. 21 ….. -5 ….. Washington Safety ….. 1 ….. 1 ….. 0 ….. Even Takeaway ….. 26 ….. 25 ….. 1 ….. Washington Forced Punts ….. 96 ….. 105 ….. -9 ….. Dallas sacks ….. 36 ….. 32 ….. 4 ….. Washington 1st Downs ….. 249 ….. 228 ….. 21 ….. Dallas 3rd down conv ….. 63 ….. 69 ….. -6 ….. Washington 3rd down conv % ….. 29.9% ….. 30.4% ….. -0.5% ….. Washington 4th Down conv ….. 6 ….. 7 ….. -1 ….. Washington 4th Down conv % ….. 37.5% ….. 46.7% ….. -9.2% ….. Washington Penalty ….. 90 ….. 88 ….. 2 ….. Dallas Penalty Yds ….. 748 ….. 763 ….. -15 ….. Washington TOP ….. 28:37:00 ….. 27:26:00 ….. 1:11:00 ….. Dallas Difficulty of Schedule ….. 0.476 ….. 0.461 ….. 0.015 ….. Washington Offense Statistic ….. Washington ….. Dallas ….. Variance ….. Advantage Games ….. 15 ….. 16 Statistical Rank ….. 29 ….. 21 Total Yds ….. 4,079 ….. 5,161 ….. -1082 ….. Dallas Yds/game ….. 271.9 ….. 322.6 ….. -50.7 ….. Dallas Total Pts. ….. 204 ….. 261 ….. -57 ….. Dallas Pts./Game ….. 13.6 ….. 18.1 ….. -4.5 ….. Dallas TD's ….. 21 ….. 28 ….. -7 ….. Dallas FG's ….. 19 ….. 23 ….. -4 ….. Dallas Safety ….. 0 ….. 2 ….. -2 ….. Washington giveaway ….. 25 ….. 29 ….. -4 ….. Washington sacks ….. 35 ….. 37 ….. -2 ….. Washington 1st Downs ….. 249 ….. 286 ….. -37 ….. Dallas 3rd down conv ….. 63 ….. 88 ….. -25 ….. Dallas 3rd down conv % ….. 30.0% ….. 36.5% ….. -6.5% ….. Dallas 4th Down conv ….. 4 ….. 4 ….. 0 ….. Even 4th Down conv % ….. 36.4% ….. 33.3% ….. 3.1% ….. Washington Penalty ….. 112.00 ….. 98 ….. 14 ….. Dallas Penalty Yds ….. 1,032.00 ….. 837 ….. 195 ….. Dallas TOP ….. 31:23:00 ….. 32:34:00 ….. 1:11:00 ….. Dallas Difficulty of Schedule ….. 0.476 ….. 0.461 ….. 0.015 ….. Washington The interesting thing about the skins offensive and defensive stats is that they are almost mirror images as if washington had played against itself all season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted December 28, 2004 Author Share Posted December 28, 2004 Flashback Saying the 2003 Boys had a "monster" year statistically is a bit of a stretch. To say that they were statistically one of the best defenses of all time is either ignorance or an out and out attempt to mislead people. If anyone isn't paying attention, it's you my little grasshopper. Check out this link http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/DEF-PASSING/2002/regular?&_1:col_1=8 You wanna talk about an all time great passing defense, there it is - the 2002 Tampa Bucs. And it's in the era you like...the modern one. They allowed 50.8% completions, 155.6 yards per game, 10 TDs, 31 INTs, 43 sacks. Overall, they allowed 12.2 PPG (including 3 TD returns which are factored in that #), 252.8 YPG, and only 18 TDs the entire year! That sonny boy, is one of the statistically greatest defenses of all time. Oh and they also went on to win a title, not get spanked by the Panthers in the first round. Your boys? They allowed 48.6% completions, 164.4 yards per game, 18 TDs, 13 INTs, 32 sacks. Overall, they allowed 16.2 PPG, 25 TDs, and 253.5 yards per game. Sure, they get the edge in completion % - if that's even something that anyone cares about. But since 4 for 5 for 10 yards is far better than 1 for 2 for 90 yards in that comparison, I'd say no one does. I'd also call into question that this is the best mark of all time. All other categories are edges to Tampa and the scoring and turnover margin is a landslide in tampa's favor. I'd also find it incredibly hard to believe that the 2003 Boys had the all time best passer rating against in light of the #s I've provided. Or were these just team records you were talking about? Please help me because I am having a hard time paying attention here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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