Philly scared silly

[Ken]

I hit return on accident, shoot me!!!!!

PS,

These little smilies are the best.

[Die Hard]

Ken - Cowboy fans want respect from Redskins fans? Easy enough. Fair better than 3-11 against the rest of the NFL... which is what you've done the past 2 years.

Just because the Cowboys seem to save their best efforts for the Skins... doesn't make them allworld. As you'll notice how many members of your #4 ranked defense made the Pro Bowl.

How does a team with a defense ranked fourth overall go 5-11? The truth is... your defensive unit played over their heads. Kudos. But you can't expect a unit/player which overachieves to maintain that level consistently.

Even Albert Connell had a year with 1000 yards receiving not too long ago...

47 to go....

[Ken]

Originally posted by Die Hard

Ken - Cowboy fans want respect from Redskins fans? Easy enough. Fair better than 3-11 against the rest of the NFL... which is what you've done the past 2 years.

Just because the Cowboys seem to save their best efforts for the Skins... doesn't make them allworld. As you'll notice how many members of your #4 ranked defense made the Pro Bowl.

How does a team with a defense ranked fourth overall go 5-11? The truth is... your defensive unit played over their heads. Kudos. But you can't expect a unit/player which overachieves to maintain that level consistently.

Even Albert Connell had a year with 1000 yards receiving not too long ago...

Die Hard,

I understand what you are saying, and they did overachieve. That is exactly the reason why they went out and signed Leroi Glover, Kevin Hardy, Bryant Westbrook and drafted Roy Williams. They added a lot of talent to a solid group.

I know you know the answer to why the Cowboys were 5-11. In fact, if it wasn't for the defense, they may have only won 1 or two games all year. You see, having 22 million dollars on your cap being paid to no one playing on the field for you, has an effect on wins and losses, surely you would agree? Now, the fact that they had so many injuries at qb(which was a ? to begin with) didn't help one bit.

Now, this year, they are playing without both arms tied behind their backs. Thus, they have been able to go out and have one of the best offseasons of any team in the NFL. They also get to play the Redskins and the Rest of the NFL with both fists swinging.

So to answer your statement, we know, and we took care of it.

[indyskinsfan]

I find it ironic that a team would focus more someone else's roster than their own. It is the easiest way to the basement and I just don't believe it would be players picked just against us. However, knowing what your opponent does well and hopefully having the personnel to nuetralize it or take it away, is a major factor. Spurrier made note of this and it makes sense.

After being stung by St. Louis, Philly knows the math, but have not solved their own equation. They will, I am sure, pluck at some FA's.

We on the other hand can lean, gratuosly, to FA's, since we spared some cash from the draft.

[Art]

Ken, reply within.....

"Wow,

The Cowboys sure get no respect around these parts, huh. How many times in a row do we have to beat you guys before you give us a little credit? I mean really. "

I think it was mentioned, a 10-22 team is nothing to respect. It doesn't matter if you beat us when we keep finishing ahead of you. Cowboy fans seem to think it doesn't matter to finish in last place in the division. But, sadly for you, it does.

"Art,

I guess I have to remind you that WE, not YOU, are the ones who had the 4th ranked defense in the NFL last year."

I guess I have to remind you that YOU not us, made nine interceptions. You, not us, had fewer sacks. Your defense was fine, but, your defense wasn't better than ours. Hell, we had three atrocious games that defy reason, our defensive ends were injured for parts of the year on an already questionable line, and we still were the better defense. Remember, there's more to playing defense than giving up yards. Strictly speaking, surrendering fewer yards is great. But, if you're not really stopping people along the way, it's not meaningful. You were no more happy with your defense last year than most Redskin fans with their No. 4 ranked defense the year before.

Your defense was soft and passive. You sacrificed making plays for giving up fewer yards. It's a careful balancing act. When you lack talent to man up offensive players and you can't generate pressure, you are at a team's mercy unless you go to an umbrella coverage and pray you have speed at linebacker to be disruptive. Let me remind you that if you had it to do over, you'd have picked a lot of defenses ahead of your own. Your initial response will be "no way, not us, not me," and I'll simply point you to what your own team is doing to actually get a good defense as all the evidence I require.

"I also have to remind you that OUR pass defense was #1 in the league. Not yours. I also would like to know how Fred Smoot all of the sudden became one of the best corners in the League? I must have missed something there."

Yes, you must have. Smoot, playing on the opposite side of Champ Bailey was the corner most avoided last year because he was, as a rookie, better than Champ was last year. Teams went at him early, and he made them pay. Teams stayed away from him late and went at Bailey. Smoot was the Redskins best defensive player a year ago. Some would say Lavar was and they'd make a legitimately powerful point so I won't debate it. But, Smoot was the Redskins best corner last year, so, you must have missed it.

"Granted, Westbrook did make the Pro Bowl two years ago, so that shouldn't count for anything."

How much does it count that Gus Frerotte made the Pro Bowl a couple of years ago? How much does it count that Ryan McNeil left Dallas and made the Pro Bowl? Of course, whether you find this persuasive or not is less relevant than you lied to make a point and when you lie to make a point, it tends to limit you.

Look here:

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/2002/roster_nfc.html

http://www.nfl.com/probowl2001/nfc.html

http://www.supernfl.com/ProBowl2000.html

http://www.supernfl.com/ProBowl99.html

These are the last four Pro Bowl rosters. Guess who's name isn't on them? Would it be Bryant Westbrook perhaps? Why must you puff an average player up to make yourself feel better? Now, Westbrook was, two years ago, voted as an alternate to the Pro Bowl. And, that's as meaningful as Big Daddy Wilkinson being voted to as an alternate to the Pro Bowl this year, but you all think Wilkinson sucks and somehow Westbrook's alternate two years ago should count extra. Sorry chief. Not working for you.

"I don't think you should discount the Cowboys 4th round pick Derek Ross, either, he is considered to be a quality cover guy."

God no. I wouldn't think of discounting your third round draft pick. Sheesh, you got me there. Oh, wait. No you don't. You shouldn't discount our third round draft pick, Bauman. He's said to have first round cover skills in a smallish body. Fortunately you have smallish receivers so, that won't really bother him, at least against you guys right? How about we just don't drag out our draft picks as if they somehow trump the other? Or, at least not in the THIRD EFFING ROUND.

"But I am not going to hang my hopes on him performing because, Frankly, I think were fine with or without his help. Last year's defensive ranking proves that point. "

Last year's defensive ranking proves you needed to bring in a starting CB, draft for defense, add Glover and Hardy just to be solidified. That's what last year's defensive ranking proves.

"And as far as Westbrook being our best player, you might want to rethink that logic. He may not even be our best corner, Edwards played damn good last year. "

Edwards had one interception and just seven passes defensed as your starting corner. We got that out of our nickel corner. For any other team that type of performance gets you to make fun of them. For your team, it appears, that's just pretty damn good. Hey, how does one argue with such a powerful argument as that?

"Now, to your Wr's. I do like Rod Gardner, he is a nice player. But the rest of those retreads your throwing out there, come on now. Are you being serious or what? There is a reason Tampa couldn't throw the ball last year with Green and Anthony."

Yes. It's called Keyshawn Johnson who was limiting in being able to hurt a team and demanding in his requirements for seeing the ball. And, of course, it's called Brad Johnson and another new offensive coordinator down there. Green and Anthony are far from great receivers. Both are fine in the roles they are likely to fill here. Your No. 4 receiver, for example, has a decided lack of interest as compared to OUR No. 4 receiver and that is what we're talking about.

"They don't scare anyone, that is for sure. Even if you did manage to make a convincing arguement that somehow, 3 out of your 4 WR's were something more than average, how would you rationalize how you would get them the ball? Is this going to be a wishful thinking thing or will it be done through Osmosis?"

Well, I don't know. It would seem Quincy Carter can have a 63 QB rating and complete 51 percent of his passes and you aren't too concerned, are you? We actually have a good offensive coordinator, and a QB with a better, more accurate arm than your QB, and OURS won't be handed the job by the owner as yours was. Advantage us .

"I HARDLY think that Andy Reid is shaking at the thought of ANY of your qb's picking apart his defense. I mean, let's be realistic here."

Let's.

"Think a little bit before you spout off."

Self-assessment's are lovely things.

[Art]

Ken, this is interesting....

"Die Hard,

I understand what you are saying, and they did overachieve. That is exactly the reason why they went out and signed Leroi Glover, Kevin Hardy, Bryant Westbrook and drafted Roy Williams. They added a lot of talent to a solid group."

Hey, wait a minute. A minute ago your ranking proved just how good you were. Now, it proves they were overachieving? Can't figure out a point, so you figure you'll cover every angle and hope no one's watching, is that it hermano?

There's no question Dallas has had a fine offseason. Not as fine as Washington, who has surpassed your efforts to be certain, but, a fine one nonetheless. You corrected problems with your defense this offseason and you might actually field a reasonable unit capable of making a play or two on more than a lunear eclipse basis. Your offense, which was not very good, hasn't gotten any better at all. Adding a retread coach is a nice effort, but, your offensive coordinator has failed at previous stops and our offensive coordinator has never failed.

But, you've taken care of it, I know.

[cowboykilla]

Que: Indyskins fan for translation.

(Refer back to "Defense" thread)

[RySkins]

Sheesh! These disertations, while interesting, are really hampering my efforst to study for that geography exam tomorrow!

[Art]

The football education of our wayward, sun-baked Cowboy fan visitors requires effort be put in and time be dedicated. When they get so much wrong, it's very difficult to summarize the inaccuracy in a single line. I'm sure you'll understand .

[Dr. D]

The blind fanatisism displayed by our Cowboy-lovin brethren are illustrative as to how the political system continues to exploit ....

I have lived in Dallas a few years (ago), and as anywhere, on balance, cowpoke fans are ok. I mean they (folks down there) sell out High school football stadiums (they even sell season tickets to HS games) You should see the facilities accorded to football in the south.

SO I think the point ultimately is, the pursuit of football in places like Dallas, is somewhat different than here where we tend to have a more objective (by comparison) viewing experience.

I think its considered "bad form" to NOT wear the fanaticism openly.

SO don't hold it against them, its NORMAL practice.

see, a kinder gentler Dr. D

[Tommy-the-Greek]

They should be scared. This is going to be a common site this year....:laugh:

[fansince62]

ahhh, fellas....we also have drafted a lot of cbs if one adds up this year and last.......

[CounterTre]

The Dallas defense being #4 is one of the biggest misnomers out there. They were by far one of if not THE most over-rated defense out there last year. Throw out all of the stats you want, but the most telling stat of all is points allowed, and the Pukes didn't even crack the top ten for the NFC on that one. Hell the Redskins got absolutely murdered the first 5 games including a nasty drubbing from GB and KC, and their D STILL allowed 3 points less a game than the Cowboys.

Best Pass D??? Yea look at the attempts given up and then look at run attepmts and then come crow about a hollow stat some more. Of course they were high in pass D, their run D sucked and no one needed to pass on em.

9 in a row is a stat ya can't really fight, but when it comes from a team that has gone 10-22 and resided in the basement the last two years it becomes rather meaningless. But hey if that's what you Cowboy fans want to hang your hats on that's fine, suit yourselves.

[Ken]

OK Guys,

Unfortunately,

There is so much **** to wade through in some of these posts, that i won't be able to respond to some of them until tonight.

I have to go to work now, but I really look forward to responding to some of these blank statements. Do not take my silence as a sign of defeat. Far from it.

[cowboykilla]

Uh oh. Here comes another one. So which D was better....2000 Ravens...or 2001 Cowboys? I dunno..its close.....

siiiiiiiiike

[Golgo-13]

This, ladies and gentlemen, is why Art should be our GM. 'Nuff said.

[NavyDave]

The 2000 skins lost because of no kicker and major hits to the interior of the O line as well as Norvs refusal to pay George against the midgets.

Iggles and skins gearing up for the Rams while keeping the core defense in place isnt a bad idea and besides with corners being one of the most athletic positions it also strengthens special teams

[Guest Goatroper]

our offensive coordinator has never failed.

Are you talking about Spurrier here? If so, he hasn't failed OR succeeded in the NFL because he hasn't even competed in the NFL. Stevie is an unknown quantity in the pros.

Be real. SS could certainly be the rage of the age, but he could also fall flat on his face. Fifty-fifty chance at this point.

All the talk about the Dallas D and stats -- Keep in mind most of our losses were due to offensive ineptitude, not poor defense. We did get soundly whupped a couple of times but for the most part our D kept us in range in most games.

The lingering question here is: If we're so sorry and you're so good, how come you can't beat us? Don't try that tired old thing about Dallas wanting to beat the Skins more than vice versa. There is NO team, none, that Snyder wants to beat more than he wants Dallas. Your new coach picked up on that very quickly. Fans at the draft party were chanting "We want Dallas!" Your players come strutting into Irving in cammo fatigues, talking trash. Not up for the game? Right.

While we are improving, you guys are trying to get back to Square 1.

[Art]

Goat,

Spurrier has never failed as an offensive coordinator. Not coaching pros. Not coaching college players. He has a substantially greater chance than 50-50 to succeed, because, he always has, for 18 years and no matter how you click your Ruby Slippers together and pray he won't be successful, the fact is, it's more likely than not he'll be better than Jimmy Raye.

Meanwhile, your guy has failed as an NFL coach. So, all the more we are ahead on this scale of big brains. And we don't even touch on the defensive side because it is so clearly to our advantage. And, here you are explaining to us that most of your Dallas losses were attributed to a poor offense, not the defense.

This explains, does it, that you've focused so on your defense this offseason and you've not added anyone to your offense? I mean, what have you done to actually improve your offense? Hire a coach who's failed in the NFL on more than one occasion, and bring in a couple of rookies, who may, or may not pan out? The Redskins have brought in the most successful offensive mind not in the NFL, and a mind that has never experienced offensive failure as a coach. All our guy has to do is be better than Raye for us to be better.

The lingering question here, really is, why is it the Cowboys, a last place team, and 10-22 the last two years, think they are improving while everyone else is standing still? We've added more quality coaching and players than you've added this offseason, but you're improving while we are standing still? From Jones to Moore to Green to Anthony to Trotter to Armstead to Wynn to our rookies we have added more good players than Dallas, who's added Westbrook, Glover, Hardy and rookies.

In fact, we've done more to help our team and while you have clearly improved, the fact can't be questioned that your team had a greater distance to go to enjoy success. That's what last place does for ya.

[SonnyJ]

Keep in mind most of our losses were due to offensive ineptitude

So what has the team done to address this offensive ineptitude?

Drafted a guard and WR? Added Coslet?

Don't believe a guard is going to bring efficiency to the offense. Especially since the OL is a supposed strength on the team.

Bryant could help. He could alienate his team and/or wind up in the slammer. He hasn't done squat in the NFL. Fifty-fifty there.

Coslet. He's proven to be an effective WCO guy. What does he have to work with? A bunch of QBs who are rookies or might as well be. Are the receivers WCO guys? Ismail, maybe. Not Galloway. Dubious on Bryant. Who's the TE? Oh right, you're trading for Gonzalez and only giving up a ham sandwich.

So, the salient question is, if your defense was so good last year, and your offense screwed the team over, how does JJ's offseason moves help the team improve it's record?

[SPare]

Guys, I hate the cowboys as much as anyone on this board. However, as of right now, I think that they've got a really decent team.

This will NOT be the same team that lost 22 games over the last two years. Their games will be 10-7 snooze fests, but they won't be losing as much.

I would even go so far as to say that they will be a better team in 2002 than both the Giants and Eagles (I really think that the Eagles are going to take a fall).

I still have to think that the Redskins will finally break the string, but I just don't know.

[bulldog]

who's kidding who. the Cowboys finished 5-11 in 2000 and had a last place schedule to play in 2001.

consequently they didn't face too many high powered offenses and the ones they did such as Oakland and Philly, they gave up 25+ points to.

even San Diego dropped 32 on the Cowboys.

Like the Redskins they benefitted in the second half in playing some teams with mediocre offenses (the Skins !!) and that had a hand in their ranking.

Once the Cowboys show they can hold the Rams and Eagles under 25 points than I will be more impressed with them.

Of the offseason pickups, only Glover is a known quantity because he is clear of any lingering health problems.

Bryant Westbrook and Kevin Hardy have been brittle performers. The Lions thought Westbrook's career might be in jeopardy at one point.

When you compare their defensive acquisitions to those of the Redskins they come up wanting UNLESS all of them have their best seasons in 2002. And how likely is it to get career years from all of them?

Wynn is productive and healthy. Ditto for Trotter and Armstead.

the simple truth is the Cowboys only had one pro bowl caliber player on defense before signing Glover in Woodson.

Now they have two.

The Redskins have ADDED two just in this offseason and already have Bailey and Arrington in the stable along with up and comer Fred Smoot.

Doesn't look like the same class of defense to me.

[Guest Goatroper]

He hasn't done squat in the NFL. Fifty-fifty there.

Puzzling to me why you apply this statement to Antonio Bryant but not Steve Spurrier.

I think Jerry did pretty well on the offensive side with a couple of big receivers, a solid fullback and Gurode at G/C. But I will readily concede that the offense will succeed or fail based on the performance of Quincy Carter.

He was one of, what, four QBs to start for us last year. He struggled early, got hurt, then came back and showed some poise and (dare I say) talent late in the season. Certainly he had a better rookie year than Troy Aikman.

But, I repeat, the jury is out on Quincy. Most of you are absolutely certain he will flop. Some of us are expecting him to succeed. He is supported by a good OL, a good running game, some good veteran receivers and a new OC. Hopefully, Mister Jones can find a serviceable TE to help out.

Alas, it was not just our offense that stunk last year. Our special team play was atrocious too. Our long snapper tanked more than a couple of games for us -- including the wild snap that resulted in our losing our starting kicker for the season. This year, our kicker is back with a new long snapper. Plus we have fresh meat on our coverage teams.

But, now it sounds like I am whining about ST, and that makes me sound like a Redskins fan, so I'll stop now.

[SonnyJ]

Originally posted by Goatroper

Puzzling to me why you apply this statement to Antonio Bryant but not Steve Spurrier.

Goat,

If I have to explain it to you, it just seems to lose it's effect.

But, I'll try anyway.

I was applying (mocking, perhaps???) the same standard to Bryant as you had previously done to Spurrier. The same can be said about all of your rookies, who you seem to feel are going to come right in and produce.

You readily embrace the notion that the Dallas rookies will come in and be productive. These are young men who have been insulated, have never played in or been associated with the league, probably never had a lot of money, and at least one already has a rap sheet and is of questionable character.

OTOH, you have Spurrier, a mature adult, who played in the NFL for a decade, who has been amazingly successful whereever he has coached (both at the professional and collegiate levels) over a TWO DECADE period, who is readily acknowledged as an offensive genius, who lives to rip the guts out of his opponent, and a guy who has all the money and fame he needs.

Yet, the notion of him being successful is, to you, at best a coin flip.

So, don't you see the irony?

Who's selling crazy to who?

[Art]

What Sonny said.

Goat, if you don't understand the facts here, that's ok, but, remember, in the future, that it is better to stay silent and have it be thought you are a fool than to speak and make that clear.