Prediction: The Redskins will have the #1 NFC Defense

[Riggo-toni]

We have the best DC in the game, the best cornerbacking trio, and if we sign Trotter and Armstead stays healthy, by far the best LB corp in football. All that's missing is a huge run-stopping DT to go alongside Big Daddy, and maybe an upgrade at safety.

SS is no dummy, and I think after evaluating Stephen D vs his QBs, we may see an attack closer to traditional NFC East smash-mouth than the pass-happy offense people in the media are clamoring about. Defense and a good running game are what win playoff games. :bow:

[@DCGoldPants]

That would be sweet and would make Lewis look so legit that he'd be here only one year.

[Terry]

But where will the pass rush come from?

It was our #1 defensive need last year (apart from stopping Dallas runners from leaving cleat marks on our jerseys).

I don't see where we've addressed it, or plan to address it at all.

Having linebackers take on that role only goes so far, especially if they have to cover.

We need a pass rusher.

[9inarow]

I'm not going to bash this tread, but I don't see how the Skins will have the #1 D in the NFL. That's a homer's dream.

I have to agree with Terry. The pass rush is a primary concern and I don't think it will be addressed in the draft or FA. Kalimba Edwards is a possibilty in the draft, but I don't think he'll make an immediate impact.

While the 2ndary is sound, the LB's aren't as good as it looks. Trotter will make a big difference and possibly change the outlook of a few games. But remember, in Philly, he had guys like Corey Simon to handle the OLmen for him. Without solid DT play, the Guards will be on top of him on a nansecond. He's a smallish LB who relies on speed and athletism ... but put 300 lbs. worth of Larry Allen in his face and his effectiveness is moot.

But regardless, the Skins D will probably be somewhere in the top 15 in the league. DE and DT are still concerns, but not as big as the QB question.

Eddie

[@DCGoldPants]

DE's are fine. I just remember two 4th and inches where Philly rushed and our D stopped them. Considering that they started 0-5 and finish with a respectable D ranking. I think they could be top 5.

I said COULD

[cowboykilla]

With the acquisition of Trotter....best D in the NFC??? I DONT THINK SO......

Try best Defense in the NFL. :bow:

[Riggo-toni]

We had a decent pass rush 2 years ago w/ Coleman and Smith. Last year, both were playing hurt, but more importantly, Lang did not have the presence to force double teams the way Stubby did. Granted, Smith and Coleman aren't getting any younger, but with Wynn giving Bruce more of a breather, I think we'll get a decent pass rush IF we get an imposing DT alongside Big Daddy. This was the condition for success I outlined when I started this thread. :fortune:

[Terry]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect that Bruce is finished as an every down DE. And Coleman's big sack year of 2000 was an aberration from his career 5.5 sacks per season.

Wynn is not primarily know as a sacker, although his numbers have trended up each of the last three seasons. Basically, I see him as a younger Coleman - a run stopping left side DE who might give you 6 to 8 sacks in a good season.

Bruce did not look effective last year, even after missing most of training camp with his 'injury'. He seems to have the speed and some moves, but his strength doesn't seem to be there - most tackles were pushing him way outside and up, he's not getting around the corner anymore, and he always seemed to be 1 second and two steps too late.

What I'm hearing these days is that Samuels owns Smith.

Expecting Coleman to have another career year and for Bruce to return to 10+ sack form is unrealistic IMO.

[9inarow]

Subj: DL

I think drafting one of the top DT's will pay immediate dividends to this team. At #18, Anthony Weaver and Eddie Freeman should still be on the board.

But DT can be tricky. The Skins already have Big Daddy who acts as the fun stuffer. In Marvin Lewis' D, he'll play the part of Yurkivik (sp?) from the 2000 Ravens scheme. So the 2nd DT MUST be a pass rusher.

With Big Daddy tying up the Center and a Guard, the other DT must be able to apply pressure up front. But most of the top DT's remaining on the draft board when the Skins pick will probably be run stuffers.

Kalimba Edwards (DE) can possibly still be on the board and could develope into a primier pass rusher from the edge, but he's very raw and needs some seasoning.

Dwayne Freeney can act as a pass rushing specialist, but we you really willing to draft a 3rd down player in the 1st round?

But DT is still the way to go for the "instant" fix.

Eddie

[Art]

Reply within.....

"I'm not going to bash this tread, but I don't see how the Skins will have the #1 D in the NFL. That's a homer's dream."

It is a Cowboy fan's dream that our defense wouldn't be the best in the NFL with the assumption that Trotter joins the team. But, I won't bash your thoughts. Certainly the addition of Trotter makes an already attractive defense more attractive. Certainly the addition of Lewis makes an already attractive defense possibly very attractive. Put both components together, since we already have one, and having the best defense in football is not out of the realm of possibility.

"I have to agree with Terry. The pass rush is a primary concern and I don't think it will be addressed in the draft or FA. Kalimba Edwards is a possibilty in the draft, but I don't think he'll make an immediate impact."

I firmly believe the Redskins will end up with Alex Brown in the second round. How that works out is not something I can tell you, but, I do not think the defensive end position will get touched until the second round. The pass rush, let's remember, does have some strength up front, with Coleman who was limited due to the elbow problem a year ago and Smith, who played his best football as the season wore on. Big Daddy was a Pro Bowl alternate and Wynn is not a downgrade from Lang in the generic sense of being capable and being a good starter. Still, our pass rush wasn't outstanding a year ago, but, we didn't do a lot of inovative blitzing either.

Lewis runs a scheme that will bring heat in a bit different manner than we did last year. Armstead and Arrington will be turned loose a little more than last year, though Arrington indicated he's not a huge fan of rushing the passer. You'll see Shade in more blitz packages, like Woodson in Baltimore, since Terrell is the cover guy and more valuable back there than Shade. Still, the defense was among the league's best against the pass a year ago and finished 10th overall despite a horrible start. It'd be hard to convince me that the addition of Amstead and Trotter -- assuming Trotter lands here -- combined with Lewis isn't enough to give even a non-homer a moment of thought that this defense could be substantially better still.

"While the 2ndary is sound, the LB's aren't as good as it looks."

Right. Having three NFC Pro Bowl linebackers from the Pro Bowl played in 2002 would be something NOT as good as it looks. Again, that's a Dallas fan view of the world. Even a non-homer can look at that unit and see a special grouping. Period.

"Trotter will make a big difference and possibly change the outlook of a few games. But remember, in Philly, he had guys like Corey Simon to handle the OLmen for him."

Simon is a fine player. Wilkinson is a fine player. In fact, to many, Wilkinson may have been the best defensive tackle in football for the last 10 weeks of last year. Once Marty and Kurt started letting him make a gap move, he was very disruptive and powerful for us. He was equally weak and worthless early, when he was in more of a move, engage, attack system. I don't know what Lewis will run here. Big Daddy isn't capable as a Goose or Adams type there. He needs to get upfield and he was a Pro Bowl alternate. If Lewis allows him to play as he played the last 10 games last year, this is not a loss for us in terms of production and performance. If Lewis makes him play like Adams or Goose, well, then we'll be in some trouble.

"Without solid DT play, the Guards will be on top of him on a nansecond. He's a smallish LB who relies on speed and athletism ... but put 300 lbs. worth of Larry Allen in his face and his effectiveness is moot."

Do you even know who Trotter is? A smallish linebacker is not defined as a linebacker who is 6-1, 261 pounds. A statement written does not make a statement factual. In fact, Trotter is a larger middle linebacker. And, he's known for his ability to take on blockers and win those battles. How do I know this? Well, because I know the player, and I know what people who know the player say about him. He had to battle blockers consistently in Philly. That's his game.

Here's what Trotter said in recounting a conversation he had with Urlacher, ""I know he's the fastest middle linebacker in the NFL," Trotter said. "I talked to him last year at the Pro Bowl and he told me he loved the way I take on blockers." Here's what Pro Football Weekly says about Trotter, "Middle linebacker Jeremiah Trotter has blossomed into one of the league's best. He has the bulk to take on blockers and the speed to cover running backs."

Here's a summary of Trotter and Urlacher from the AP, "That is a fundamental difference in the defenses. Urlacher plays behind two behemoth tackles, Ted Washington (6-foot-5, 355 pounds) and Keith Traylor (6-2, 320). They wrestle with blockers so Urlacher can get to the ball.

"They take up bodies,'' Urlacher said, "and obviously that keeps people off of me.''

Said Eagles defensive coordinator Jim Johnson: "That's a big advantage. When you have those size tackles, it frees you up to run to the football. And he's a good athlete, a good tackler.''

The tackles in front of Trotter are Corey Simon (6-2, 293) and Paul Grasmanis (6-3, 298), who aren't exactly lightweights. But their strength is their quickness, and that leaves Trotter dealing with offensive linemen much of the time."

If you need more help getting to know who Trotter is, let me know. But, he is NOT a smallish linebacker who has no experience dealing with blockers. I hope this helps you out and allows you to formulate a more accurate opinion.

"But regardless, the Skins D will probably be somewhere in the top 15 in the league. DE and DT are still concerns, but not as big as the QB question."

This is a Dallas fan point of view, for sure. The Redskins defense, which was No. 10 last year, may add Trotter, has added Armstead and has balanced the loss of Lang with Wynn, and we "will probably be somewhere int he top 15 in the league." Dallas, who was No. 4 in the league last year overall, has added Glover, Hardy and Westbrook, so, that tells me they'll probably be around 12 or so, right? That's how it works?

Both defenses could fall. Both could rise. How it plays out depends a lot on injuries and the like. But, the Redskins also added a respected defensive mind and assuming Trotter, which is an unfair assumption, a great deal of talent. But, I'm sure it's a homer's persepective not to agree with you here.

Eddie [/b]

[NavyDave]

If we saw how well BDW performed the last 8 to 10 games attack the gap you should know that Marv knows that as well and should adjust his scheme to accomadate BDW and the DT playing alongside him.

With our corners we can get away with 7 to 8 in the box.

With the right DT we can get away with a rush of only four to five with the rest flooding the passing lanes.

We can be rank fairly high in the defensive ranks because we dont play that many defensive juggernauts (meaning we can own time of possesion)and the best offensive team plays against us here when the weather starts to turn.

[9inarow]

Subj: Art

I will not discount your comments. You have many valid points. Being the #1 ranked D in the NFL is a possibility, but so is winning the Super Bowl.

While the Skins D was ranked #10 last year, the FA signings are not necessarily an upgrade over what you had. Wynn for Lang is a wash. Jesse Armstead wasn't re-signed by the Giants for a reason. Trotter would be a serious upgrade, but would the cost of 1 single player be worth the loss of substantial depth?

My statement that the Skins D will fall in the top 15 is a blanket statement. In fact, it's an admission that the unit is among the better half in the league. But Marco and Bruce are pretty much finished as players. Without spectacular DE play, no D will finish the #1 D in the NFL. That's not a statement from a Cowboy fan, it's a statement from an NFL fan.

As for the Cowboys D being ranked #4 last year, they did a good job. But they can easily fall to #12 this year. They played a conservative umbrella D that kept everything in front of them. With the addition of the new players, the Cowboys expect to be more aggressive. That can go both ways ... aggressive D's mean more blitzing, more single coverage, and more big plays ... both ways.

I don't know how Marvin Lewis' defensive schemes will translate in DC. But I think it's safe to say, the Skins D will be VERY aggressive this year. Expect big plays on both sides of the ball.

Eddie

[Skins24]

I :rofl: when he said that Art. Top 15...LOL!!!!

You also notice that how bad our Qbs are always seem to pop up with them.

"DE and DT are still concerns, but not as big as the QB question."

They are the last ones who should be talking about "the QB question"

Anyway,

Even if we don't get that big pass rusher we need (though I think who we already have [of course after we get another DT] will not hurt us as much as people think) if our CBs play to the level they are capable of, we will be in good shape.

[Rat_Boy]

Honestly.... I would rather have a pass rushing DE and a solid DT with Mitchell at MLB than our current DL and Trotter.

We would be ranked MUCH higher with the DL upgrades than with Trotter and no DL upgrades.

We had NO pass rush last year, and now Bruce and Marco are a year older. Sure, we signed Wynn, but he is not a pass rusher either.

We need a pass rush, and currently, we don't have it.

[bulldog]

two points:

1. Whoever starts at quarterback in 2002, the Redskins passing game and overall offensive production will be a lot better than it was last season because of Spurrier's knowledge of the game and confidence in his own system. Last year the Redskins came into the season planning to have Jeff George throw the ball short and give Davis 10-15 carries a game. It took the team that long to figure out that George was ill-suited to that type of offense and that Davis was the team's best weapon and needed more carries.

Spurrier won't make those kinds of mistakes in terms of using players in a way that accentuates their strengths. Gibbs was a master of taking players with some strengths and organizing a game plan to cover their weaknesses. I expect much the same this time around.

2. On defense, Lewis has an idea of how the defense is going to shape up. From what we have seen, he is trying to get the unit younger and faster but also stronger. Wynn is a much better run defender than Kenard Lang was when playing end and actually had more sacks than Lang did last year. Smith will be rested more and will be used in a rotation to keep him fresh for third downs. Smith keeps himself in shape year round so I don't see any reason Bruce can't repeat his 10 sack performance in 2000.

I also think the Skins will add a DL in either round 1 or 2 to provide a presence inside. That remains to be seen.

As you can see from the Ravens, the success of Lewis' system revolves around the ability of his linebackers to make plays.

If Trotter comes aboard, I don't know how anyone could say the Skins wouldn't then have the best linebacking trio in the NFC.

Who is better?

The only pro bowl linebacker the Skins would not have from the 2002 team would be Brian Urlacher :laugh:

[G.Smitty]

I just something I would like to add about Lewis' defensive schemes in 2000. When the Ravens had argubaly one of the best defenses of all time in 2000 they were not overly agressive. They rarely blitzed, they mostly relied on their front four to get a little pressure, cover the deep stuff and punish the receivers/backs who caught the short passes. Michaeal McRary was a solid pass rusher, and Burnett did manage something like 10 sacks that year, but Siragusa and Adams are not pass rushers at all. I don't have the numbers on me right now, but I believe they were in the bottom third in sacks in the NFL. They were not number 1 in the league in yardage allowed because they did allow defenses to have the short passes, but they were exceptional in the red zone so they didn't give up many points at all.

All that being said, without any pass rushers acquired, I think the skins will be able to generate just as much of a pass rush as the Ravens defence was able to in 2000.

But I think it would help to have a big bodied DT to help defend the run.

Just my poorly written .02$

[Terry]

Hey Bulldog,

Who do you see being in that rotation with Bruce?

Would you keep Coleman on the left side, put Wynn on the right side on running downs, and sub Bruce for him on passing downs?

[TennesseeCarl]

Since the NFL is allegedly a defensive league and the Redskins and the Cowboys rank highly in defense (10th and 4th respectively), wouldn't you expect that our records would be better than 8-8 or 5-11?

Perhaps the way defense is measured is flawed. Or the defenses just performed well vs. the lousy teams on the schedule.

It seemed to me that teams could move the ball when they had to vs. the Skins. I recall the Eagles moving through Dallas like a knife through butter.

The sad truth is that neither team was all that good last year. The teams wouldn't be drafting 6th and 18th if that weren't the case.

I remember being sky-high when we signed both Stubblefield and Wilkinsen in one off-season. I just knew that our defensive front was going to be a force.

I'll believe it when I see it on the field for both of these teams.

[NavyDave]

I want to know who is the defensive asst because if we do have a top 5 defense Marv may be relocating to the Big Apple(well the part where the worm resides) or Motor City in 2k3

[Riggo-toni]

Originally posted by Terry

Would you keep Coleman on the left side, put Wynn on the right side on running downs, and sub Bruce for him on passing downs?

Can't speak for BD, but this was exactly what I hand in mind.

Our DEs may be getting older, but Lavar, Smootie and Champ all have one more year of experience behind them. If Smoot's jump from year 1 to 2 is as dramatic as Lavar's, and if Lavar blossoms further in year 3, well, hey now! :cool: :asta:

[NavyDave]

Marco moves to RDE resting B Smith until the passing down while Wynn is the run stopper engaging the ROT.

Take into consideration Marty Ball and T Banks prevent offensive scheme allowed opposing teams to get more shots at our Defense

so if the offense is top 15 vice the bottom of the barrell the D can only get better due to being fresher and playing with a lead.

Yeah I'm hoping for a nice 2nd year from Smoot which means 4 for 4 in avoiding the sophmore jinx(Lavar,Champ,Samuels)

[Art]

Reply within....

"I will not discount your comments. You have many valid points. Being the #1 ranked D in the NFL is a possibility, but so is winning the Super Bowl."

You should not discount my comments as they are all 100 percent accurate and I can't say the same about you. Mine are further 100 percent consistent and I can not say that about you either. For example, right here you say, "Being the #1 ranked D in the NFL is a possibility...." Yet, the reason I responded in the first place to you was not a reasonable comment like above followed by a cogent analysis about why you think otherwise. Your comment was, "...but I don't see how the Skins will have the #1 D in the NFL. That's a homer's dream."

These are inconsistent statements and I do not like inconsistent statements in a thoughtful debate. Had you said what you said here, followed by what you said earlier, I would only have had to correct your factual errors, rather than your judgements. Having to do both bothers me.

"While the Skins D was ranked #10 last year, the FA signings are not necessarily an upgrade over what you had."

Again, the working premise of this thread is the assumption that Trotter is being added. But let's address the faulty nature of these statements.

"Wynn for Lang is a wash."

This is accurate. As I've said the same, it's difficult to find flaw and I credit you for seeing the clarity in my words here.

"Jesse Armstead wasn't re-signed by the Giants for a reason."

Armstead was released by the Giants. He wasn't a free agent who wasn't re-signed. He was a salary cap cut by the Giants after making his, what, fourt, fifth, sixth, whatever, consecutive Pro Bowl. Last year in his spot we had a combination of Robert Jones and Antonio Pierce. A journeyman and a rookie. Yes, I see how a multiple Pro Bowl player isn't any kind of upgrade over these guys. This is a laughable comment and renders your sometimes reasonable stance meaningless because it's clear you have an agenda.

"Trotter would be a serious upgrade, but would the cost of 1 single player be worth the loss of substantial depth?"

I don't know what cost it would be for whatever team signs Trotter. And, guess what? You don't either. As I've written here, Trotter can be on this roster right now for a cap hit of $1.6 million this year, and still have signed a $42 million contract that is largely fantasy based since he'd never see the end of it. This is what Davis did. This is what many free agents do. The difference, of course, is Trotter is a two-time Pro Bowler at 25 and he's among the absolute best at his position ALREADY. At what cost is it worth? Well, it's not worth the cost of Galloway, but, since we aren't spending two No. 1s on him, it's not going to cost Galloway. Also, we don't have to cut anyone to get Trotter under contract, and a fat one at that. That's been established on this board. Certainly we have to restructure Davis, but, we were doing that anyway. Certainly we have to restructure Coleman, but, we were doing that anyway. Again, under the assumption that we end up with Trotter, the upgrades will be immense, whether we get another defensive player or not.

"My statement that the Skins D will fall in the top 15 is a blanket statement."

Your blanket is moth ridden and has holes.

"In fact, it's an admission that the unit is among the better half in the league."

Substantially generous of you. For a defense that was ALREADY in the top half, having added -- again, the assumptive here -- two Pro Bowl linebackers and the man regarded as the best defensive coordinator in football. Thanks for the admission. I'm sure from a Cowboy fan it'd have to be a wider improvement to grudgingly admit Top 10. Perhaps if we added three or four Pro Bowlers, you might be willing to nudge us to 11th or something I guess. Still a drop from the year before, but, hey, everyone else is getting so much better while we aren't really improving at all, because Armstead isn't really much better than Pierce. Good logic.

"But Marco and Bruce are pretty much finished as players. Without spectacular DE play, no D will finish the #1 D in the NFL. That's not a statement from a Cowboy fan, it's a statement from an NFL fan."

I see. Earlier the addition of Trotter was meaningless because we didn't have good defensive tackle play. Yet here, after understanding Trotter's game better now than you did, it's suddenly defensive end play that makes a defense spectacular? Let's look at last year, shall we? The top four defenses were Pittsburgh, Baltimore, St. Louis and Dallas. Please tell me the spectacular defensive ends for the Steelers last year. Oh wait, that defense was linebacker based, not end based, so, let's look at Baltimore. The Ravens had 11 sacks out of their defensive ends, so, where was the great defensive end play there? Oh, wait, Baltimore had great linebacking play, which is why they were so good. Didn't the Cowboys finish fourth in the league with just NINE sacks out of their defensive ends?

So, don't ever tell me again that you are an NFL fan, not a Cowboy fan, when you come here telling me nonsense that you have to have spectacular defensive end play to have a very good defense. In fact, you can have a good defense by having a number of other areas in which you excel. Having great ends is great for some teams. It's not necessary to be a great defense. Perhaps as an NFL fan you should have known this information before backing yourself into an argument you can not win.

"As for the Cowboys D being ranked #4 last year, they did a good job. But they can easily fall to #12 this year. They played a conservative umbrella D that kept everything in front of them. With the addition of the new players, the Cowboys expect to be more aggressive. That can go both ways ... aggressive D's mean more blitzing, more single coverage, and more big plays ... both ways. "

Right. You got this correct.

"I don't know how Marvin Lewis' defensive schemes will translate in DC. But I think it's safe to say, the Skins D will be VERY aggressive this year. Expect big plays on both sides of the ball."

I don't know how it translates either. I don't know that what he did in Baltimore will be what he does here either. What I expect is for a fan of the team that had a strong defense a year ago and has -- assuming Trotter -- added major weapons that thinking something better than just better than half the teams in football is a reasonable prediction. When you come back please have information that more accurately reflects reality so I don't have to bother with this stuff again.

Art.

[The Sisko]

"Without solid DT play, the Guards will be on top of him on a nansecond. He's a smallish LB who relies on speed and athletism ... "

No guys, you all are mistaken. He was talking about the Cowgirls' MLB Dat Nguyen. Now THAT'S a smallish LB if I ever saw one.

[cdanrun]

If we sign Trotter, which looks highly possible now, draft a solid DT to protect him, Lewis playing to our strengths, then definitely. :yes: :yes: :yes:

[9inarow]

Originally posted by Yusuf06

you all are mistaken. He was talking about the Cowgirls' MLB Dat Nguyen. Now THAT'S a smallish LB if I ever saw one.

No doubt Dat Nguyen is a smallish LB. Between him and Dexter Coakley, they're probably the 2 smallest LB's in the league.

But with that being said, Dat has shown he can be very effective if the DT's keep the OG's off of him. He can't take blocks but is a very good LB in open space. He's also one of the fastest MLB's in the league.

The team didn't open up their pocket books to him for nothing. His cap hit will be $1.3 million next year ... which is peanuts for a starting NFL MLB.