freakofthesouth Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Mark Brunell's real problem is, well, his head. His armstrength is there; he's rifled passes to many recievers. He's been able to float certain passes relatively accurately. The true problem is his decision-making. From the hits he has taken in the past, he has lost his ability to run a football game. I took it upon myself to do a little research, and find some articles about his history. Check this one out: ....... http://www.canoe.ca/Slam021030/nfl_jax-ap.html Brunell: Concussions not cause of woes By EDDIE PELLS -- Associated Press JACKSONVILLE, Fla. (AP) -- If Mark Brunell were as sharp throwing footballs as he was holding court at his locker Wednesday, the Jacksonville Jaguars would be in much better shape. Brunell has struggled mightily the last two weeks, but he tersely insisted that his problems have nothing to do with the concussion he got 21/2 weeks ago against Tennessee. "I felt fine going in" to the last two games, Brunell said. "The doctors cleared me to play. Are the numbers the same as they were at the beginning? No. But some things you have no control over. It's a non-issue. I keep trying to tell you guys that." Brunell is 40-for-80 for 433 yards with one touchdown and three interceptions in his last two games. Those performances lowered his quarterback rating to 81.2 and dropped him from third to 12th in the AFC passer rankings. The Jaguars (3-4) have lost three in a row, going back to when Brunell took a helmet-to-helmet hit from Samari Rolle of the Titans. Jaguars owner Wayne Weaver complained to the league, and Rolle was fined $7,500 for the hit last week. One reason the concussion has been linked to his performance is because he went through a similar slump last year, after he received the first concussion of his career. On that day, Gerard Warren of the Browns delivered a cheap shot, and Brunell responded by going 37-for-65 for 383 yards with two TDs and two picks the next two games, both losses. "I'm not going to get into a position of defending myself," Brunell said. "I'm just saying, the concussion has nothing to do with the last two weeks. Period." Of course, that opens a whole new group of uncomfortable questions: Most notably, if it's not the concussion, what is it? "It's an overall thing," coach Tom Coughlin said. "It's one of accuracy. It's getting open. It's protection." The Jaguars are having trouble finding receivers who can get open. Patrick Johnson and Bobby Shaw, the Nos. 2 and 3 receivers behind Jimmy Smith, have combined to catch 27 passes. Johnson missed last week with an abdominal injury. Smith, meanwhile, isn't playing up to his standards. He has caught 33 passes for 480 yards this season, well below his normal pace. Last week, he dropped a key pass during Jacksonville's late-game drive, with the Jags trailing 21-19 to Houston. Brunell's accuracy is suffering. He missed no fewer than four wide open receivers, throwing behind some, and well above others. The quarterback also got sacked five times, including twice during the last-minute drive. Coughlin didn't completely rule out the notion that the concussion has affected Brunell. "Anytime someone goes through what he's gone through, it's not easy," Coughlin said. Brunell, however, wants the discussion to end. "People who have had concussions before, or never had concussions, have had two games or three games where the numbers aren't the same," Brunell said. "Concussions had nothing to do with it." Now, I didn't find an exact date on this piece, but obviously it was from Coughlin's regime was in place down there...I think it was in 2002. Notice how Brunell's concussion-related play is strikingly similar to what we are all suffering through here in DC. Yet, he adamently denies any complications whatsoever. This shows a good bit of stubbornness on his part, which may or may not be affecting Gibbs' decision on the matter. This next little snipit shows an outsiders perspective on the severity of the concussion caused by Samari Rolle: http://www.tflreport.com/content/flash02/archive/tn10.htm#14 Jacksonville Jaguars Compiled by TFL Report Editor Bob Harris | Updated 6 November, 2002 JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS In an article published Tuesday, Florida Times-Union staffer Bart Hubbuch noted that Mark Brunell's concussion seems to be at the root of the club's problems because neither Brunell nor the team has been the same since Titans cornerback Samari Rolle blasted him in the helmet October 13. Here, this analyst draws a clear picture of how Brunell and thus, his whole team has been affected by this hit. Digging back even further, here is a hit that he took in 2001: http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/10-5-2001-5045.asp - ProFootballFanatics.com, 10/5/2001 by Rich Rundel ProFootballFanatics.com columnist ... Brunell, apparently on a bonehead play, the very first of the game, was lambasted by Cleveland's rookie DT Gerard Warren. Brunell ended up with a concussion and was shot for the game. Mark, with a shovel pass to RB Stacey Mack, was intercepted and became a "live" target for Warren. Both Coach Coughlin and Brunell said it was a cheap shot. The Coach has already spoken to Mike Pereira, Director of Officials about the hit; expect a fine and a possible suspension. In conclusion, I am very worried about Brunell's decision making abilities after all the miles he now has on him. Concussions can completely ruin a QB. The meat of this post, though, lies in the first article. The play that comes from a concussion-laden Brunell is almost identiocal to the Brunell that we see now. 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jrfriedm Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 NIce work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 like Troy Aikman at 34 Brunell has logged a lot of time and hits in his NFL career and his productivity is down. remember how Jerry Jones staked a lot of the Cowboys cap on trading for Joey Galloway in the belief that a deep receiver to complement the running of Emmitt Smith would bring Dallas back into contention? the one fly in the ointment was the health of Aikman. he didn't hold up (well, neither did Galloway but that is another issue). it is quite conceivable the Redskins made a similar mistake in gauging what Brunell has left in the tank. the club is not going to admit that they made a mistake. like Coughlin, the Gibbs crew is going to say there are a 'number' of factors creating problems for the offense and the productivity of the qb is affected by those, etc. all coaches, except Mike Ditka and Jerry Glanville, have done this. if people are waiting for Gibbs to come out in a press conference and say 'folks we are starting Ramsey because Brunell is done' they are going to be waiting a damn long time. Brunell will find his way to the bench one way or another. I am convinced of that. it may take the balance of the season or the last couple of games or an injury for the change to occur. but you don't bring back a guy completing 52% of his passes for a 5.5 yard per pass average at age 34 to a team and hope to improve the following season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpskins Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by freakofthenorth His armstrength is there; he's rifled passes to many recievers. He's been able to float certain passes relatively accurately. The true problem is his decision-making. From the hits he has taken in the past, he has lost his ability to run a football game. :laugh: Where is this armstrength you speak off? Where are these receivers? :laugh: edit to add: Forgot to say that this was an interesting read. Thanks for the effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drex Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Now this my friend, is a post! Great work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 You wonder why Coughlin never really made a move for Brunell this offseason… Hmm… Good work BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakofthesouth Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by terpskins :laugh: Where is this armstrength you speak off? Where are these receivers? :laugh: edit to add: Forgot to say that this was an interesting read. Thanks for the effort. He CAN throw the ball w/ authority. He does throw some quick passes; he''s had that his whole career. Just watch some game tape or something, I don't really want to agrue this point w/ you. His problem is his mental health after the beating he's been taking. BTW, thanks all for reading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 maybe the real problem is OUR mental health having to watch Brunell labor at quarterback each Sunday? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by bulldog maybe the real problem is OUR mental health having to watch Brunell labor at quarterback each Sunday? Can we sue Daniel Snyder, Mark Brunell, Joe Gibbs, et. al for mental anguish? Someone get me Goldenster95 stat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by freakofthenorth He CAN throw the ball w/ authority. He does throw some quick passes; he''s had that his whole career. Just watch some game tape or something, I don't really want to agrue this point w/ you. His problem is his mental health after the beating he's been taking. BTW, thanks all for reading... He cannot CONSISTENTLY throw with authority...it's called age my friend.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakofthesouth Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 Where did you get 'consistently' from? Did I say that? He has no consistency because his brian is turning to mush. But he does throw the ball quickly on certain throws. Just watch an old game, seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by freakofthenorth Where did you get 'consistently' from? Did I say that? He has no consistency because his brian is turning to mush. But he does throw the ball quickly on certain throws. Just watch an old game, seriously. I've watched Brunell many times throughout his career and I stand by my statement. Regardless of the cause, he should be on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins11 Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Good find. If true, this nightmare is then a replica of St. Louis with Kurt Warner. Beset with his injuries for 2 years, he didn't win until he game to the gints. Maybe Brunell needs to heal. Take two years off by sitting on the bench, while he should purportedly mentor Ramsey as Warner did Bulger. But he must know that at that point, he will not have his starting job any more. Originally posted by Oldskool You wonder why Coughlin never really made a move for Brunell this offseason… Good point. Parcells got his boy Vinny back. If Coughlin thought Brunell still had gas left in him then it would really have been a good pickup - unless their relationship was so strained that they hated each other. Coughlin, though, would be the best evaluator of his effectiveness though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Wow, excellent post/thread...to see Brunell's problems following him to his next team speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 This makes more sense than anything else regarding his current condition. The writing is on the wall for him to get hurt even worse if he keeps playing. I wonder if there is anything in his contact that protects the skins if the turth comes out and he actually IS hurt. Give the money back, Mark! jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 He has lost his ability to be a starter, yes we all agree, but... Is Ramsey better?? no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by cphil006 He has lost his ability to be a starter, yes we all agree, but... Is Ramsey better?? no... Is Ramsey worse?? No... Does Ramsey have decent size potential to improve?? Yes... Would seven weeks worth of game experience, 90% of snaps and reps during practice with the starters, a seasoned veteran mentor as backup tutoring him, and freakishly unwavering support from his head coach have resulted in noticeable improvement?? Yep... Has seven weeks worth of game experience, 90% of snaps and reps during practice with the starters, ten years of NFL experience as a starter, and freakishly unwavering support from his head coach resulted in noticeable improvement for Brunell?? Not at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakofthesouth Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 Now, I realize that people have their opinions about Brunell's armstrength, how Ramsey should play, etc. But we've already talked about that folks. Let's talk about, maybe, the impact of concussions in the past on similar QBs, and if/how they ever bounced back... Like Warner for instance. He seems to be playing well now, w/ a solid history of concussions. What's the difference between him and Brunell? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by freakofthenorth Now, I realize that people have their opinions about Brunell's armstrength, how Ramsey should play, etc. But we've already talked about that folks. Let's talk about, maybe, the impact of concussions in the past on similar QBs, and if/how they ever bounced back... Like Warner for instance. He seems to be playing well now, w/ a solid history of concussions. What's the difference between him and Brunell? Thanks. Good question...would love to know the answer to that myself, although for two seasons Warner looked a LOT like Brunell does this season. Maybe Warner's the exception to the rule??... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakofthesouth Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by Califan007 Good question...would love to know the answer to that myself, although for two seasons Warner looked a LOT like Brunell does this season. Maybe Warner's the exception to the rule??... Does anybody know how many concussions Warner has had in the past, and how severe they might have been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Im not a neurologist nor did I stay in a Holiday Inn Express either but I think it may have to do with both the concussions, his arm strength and the system that is run that may be affecting Brunell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Of some interest: " Even if we dismiss Kurt Warner's opening-game performance as tainted stuff, the result of a concussion that forced his hospitalization, there still was something both troubling and eerie surrounding him Sunday. The one indisputable aspect of his situation was that everyone--team doctors, coach Mike Martz, Warner himself--knew by the start of the third quarter that he at least had experienced concussion-like problems. Yet, as badly as he played, with six fumbles, one interception, repeated off-kilter passes and poor decisions, Martz says he didn't consider replacing him with Marc Bulger. Nor, apparently, did Warner ever approach Martz and recommend that Bulger play.... ...Warner did not play well. In fairness, he apparently suffered the concussion 6 1/2 minutes into the game, on a sack by defensive end Michael Strahan that caused the first of Warner's fumbles. At that point, he had thrown only one pass, an incompletion. Everything he did after that is clouded by the effects of the concussion and an unanswerable question: How much of his struggles were due to the injury and how much to diminished skills?" The entire article: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_37_227/ai_107699636 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freakofthesouth Posted November 2, 2004 Author Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by Califan007 Of some interest: " Even if we dismiss Kurt Warner's opening-game performance as tainted stuff, the result of a concussion that forced his hospitalization, there still was something both troubling and eerie surrounding him Sunday. The one indisputable aspect of his situation was that everyone--team doctors, coach Mike Martz, Warner himself--knew by the start of the third quarter that he at least had experienced concussion-like problems. Yet, as badly as he played, with six fumbles, one interception, repeated off-kilter passes and poor decisions, Martz says he didn't consider replacing him with Marc Bulger. Nor, apparently, did Warner ever approach Martz and recommend that Bulger play.... ...Warner did not play well. In fairness, he apparently suffered the concussion 6 1/2 minutes into the game, on a sack by defensive end Michael Strahan that caused the first of Warner's fumbles. At that point, he had thrown only one pass, an incompletion. Everything he did after that is clouded by the effects of the concussion and an unanswerable question: How much of his struggles were due to the injury and how much to diminished skills?" The entire article: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1208/is_37_227/ai_107699636 Great find man. I remember that game; he looked terrible. Seems to be doing OK now though. Did he have any concussions before then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Just to add (from that same article): " He now has lost his last seven regular-season starts, during which he has thrown tour touchdown passes and 12 interceptions. With him starting, this has not been a very good team. It is that simple. But Martz, so extremely loyal to his quarterback, isn't in a rush to bench him. It will take more than one game to convince him that Warner's skills are sufficiently diminished to warrant his replacement by Bulger, last year's off-the-bench quarterback hero. So expect him to dismiss this game as a mulligan for Warner; he'll be given more opportunities to determine his current skill level. Still, Martz's allegiance can't be an impediment if Warner continues to be fumble-prone, antsy in the pocket, unsure in his decisions and inaccurate in his throws. The Rams are convinced they have a title-contending team. But those dreams won't be realized without improved play at quarterback, which Martz understands all too well." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted November 2, 2004 Share Posted November 2, 2004 Originally posted by terpskins :laugh: Where is this armstrength you speak off? Where are these receivers? :laugh: edit to add: Forgot to say that this was an interesting read. Thanks for the effort. terpskins- Honestly, if you haven't noticed all the OVERTHROWS then you don't know a thing about arm strength. Mark Brunell can overthrow any WR in the NFL!:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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