jowille Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 This is a little off topic, but since you brought it up... Here's a little rant and rave that I saw in the redskins newsgroup on usenet, thought it was pretty good! Jowille You're saying JKC and Snyder are similar owners? Sorry, I don't agree. Snyder has been hated before he even had a chance to lose. Remember when he was BOOed at the stadium in early '00? I've read the Redskins seats are ranked 2nd most expensive in the league. I believe #1 expensive is Jaguars. Snyder has never had a season that has improved on the prior season. By contrast, at no time during JKC's ownership (30 years or so) did we have the steady drop in wins year after year after year that we've had with Snyder. In fact, I bet it'd be hard to find any team in the league that has had as bad a stretch of years the past decade or so, as the Redskins have had -- in regards to steady decreasing wins year after year. With the parity of the league now, it doesn't make sense. Parity was supposed to stop this sort of thing from happening. It's almost as if Snyder's trying to lose on purpose. At the same time, we're paying substantially more money than any Redskins fan in franchise history for both seats and parking. I understand there is inflation, but the effective cost from the mid 90s at RFK to now is about double. RFK parking was cash $6. FedEx parking is cash $25. At the same time he's netting substantially more than the average NFL team. I don't know if it's the best net in the league, but it's much better than average. He's doing very well, he's making lots of money. So what's the justification of squeezing his loyal customers? Snyder closed the public sidewalk leading from Landover Mall to the stadium prior to game day for the past four years. He says it's for fans' safety, but everybody knows he is lying. Because at the point the sidewalk is closed, the fan has already negotiated the busy Landover Rd. intersection. The danger is over. But Snyder sends them *back* into danger by denying them access. The real reason he blocks the sidewalk -- he doesn't want people parking at the mall for free and walking in. He wants their parking money. After all, the sidewalk isn't closed *after* the game -- only *before* the game. A fan sued the Redskins on this in PG County court and won, and Snyder had to re-open the sidewalk for the final game last year (first time since October, 2000). But he was going to appeal the ruling this winter. I'm not sure what happened. Snyder has jammed thousands and thousands more seats into the stadium than the stadium was designed for -- i.e, the same stadium JKC designed specifically to avoid the crowding that Snyder has now re-created. I, for example, had an aisle near me prior to Snyder. Now, with Snyder, that aisle is filled with seats. Now I have to disrupt 12-13 people just to take a leak. The irony is, JKC specifically designed this stadium in a way as to purposely avoid some these problems that existed at RFK -- and he advertised this as a selling point in the pre-stadium literature sent to those on the waiting list. Snyder comes in and creats the same old problems all over again. Snyder closed down Gate C -- he barricaded the entire area off, forcing those who used Gate C to use other gates, adding to the long lines that already existed. Is that arrogant or what? He closed Gate C so he'd have a place to entertain his "tailgate party" customers, who also pay out the ass for tickets. By the way, I never see more than a handful of people up there. What an *******. Snyder plays TV commercials on the megatron during breaks. This is wrong. If you pay for your seat, you should not be subjected to TV commercials. I feel I'm being violated every game. TV commercials on the megatron takes away from the enjoyment of the game. Snyder added two rows of seats at the field, effectively pushing back the people who had been sitting at the first few rows for the past few decades. Again, JKC built the stadium with the first row where it was on purpose. Snyder jammed in more people in limited space. This is incredibly arrogant. Snyder turned the stadium into a giant billboard. There's no local flavor, no place to hang signs. It's like walking on the strip in Las Vegas. It's ridiculous. Snyder took away the constantly scrolling NFL update board, which showed current scores aroung the league. This board had been at RFK for ages and FedEx until 2000. Now it's gone. Now the board just flashes e-Trade and Redskins logo all the time, and maybe shows NFL scores three or four times a game, *if* you're lucky enough to be glancing at the board at the right moment. I never know what's going on around the league anymore. This dramatically takes away from the enjoyment of the game. And I guarantee you I will never use e-Trade. Ever. Snyder now sells the best seats (first few rows) to his "tailgate party" customers as those seats become available, denying those same seats to loyal fans who have been waiting on the upgrade list and trying to upgrade to better seats for years. This, again, is just wrong. Snyder kicked out the back wall of the 200 section on the visiting side, and installed still MORE seats this summer. The only problem is, you got a ****ing load-bearing beam staring you in the face as you watch the game. It blocks the field. Can you believe it??? Not to mention the overhang is so low, you can just barely see over the top of the cheerleaders heads on the far side of the field. At an opera, they'd sell these seats at half price. Snyder sells them at full price. What a guy. Snyder has raised his club seats 60% in 2001, compared to the price in 1997-2000. I believe, fans in the endzone are now paying $1,600 for each seat. Fans between the 40s are paying $3,200 for each seat (that's $320 for one seat for each game, including pre-season games, which you're also forced to buy). However, the ticket says $69, not the $320 that you actually pay. He calls it "a lease." I call it "a ****ing rip-off." Snyder demands annual season ticket payments two months earlier than JKC did. He wants us to pay him right after the pro bowl. If you don't, you risk losing your seats. Snyder has decided nobody may sell Redskins merchandise except the Redskins Store and NFL stores (except, perhaps, in special cases). The Stadium Store, which was privately owned and operated in Wheaton, Maryland, and sold Redskins merchandise at a reasonable price for decades, was forced out of business because of Snyder. There's lots of other stuff, but that's all that occurs to me off the top of my head. Snyder and JKC -- there is no comparison. Mark the Homer "Our goal is simple: Win the Superbowl." Dan Snyder March 2000 "I'm learning, okay?" Dan Snyder March 2003 "Hey! Jack up! Our expectations are very, very high." -Joe Bugel Assistant Head Coach January 7, 2004 :gaintsuck :eaglesuck :dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 We definitly shouldn't be harking at our tic prices, because given our waitinglist, and the pricaipals of economics that Snyder used to make his $, he could Charge $300 a ticket, and still sellout everygame. Other teams don't charge more, BECAUSE THEY CAN"T, people would stop buying tix. He is TRING to win, some owners, like the ones in Cinnci and AZ, don't care if they win because of league sharing. our orginization is strong, and is now worth 1 billion dollars, we lucked out with JKC AND Snyder. As far as I'm consered, best owner in the NFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyeG Posted August 8, 2004 Share Posted August 8, 2004 Wow that is intresting...but who can argue that DS is doing everything HE can to turn this team into a WINNER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 While ticket prices might be defended on supply-and-demand principles, this is the issue I find most offensive: Snyder plays TV commercials on the megatron during breaks. This is wrong. If you pay for your seat, you should not be subjected to TV commercials. I feel I'm being violated every game. TV commercials on the megatron takes away from the enjoyment of the game. I find such commercials to be a huge distraction from the experience and, more to the point, highly offensive to customers paying hundreds of dollars to be there. The unwritten rule in media and entertainment is that either you get free/cheap media/entertainment with commercials, or you pay a bundle and you get an uninterrupted experience. As a person, I'm extremely hostile to commercials and will do almost anything to avoid them. In the rare instances when I'm forced to sit through them, it's like a mental rape. Don't f*ck with my head. :hammer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Jones Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Your 13th post and your already stirring up trouble Jowille. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 You have to sit through commercials at FedEx? Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 well this guy is certainly looking for one person to blame for everything. just a few points - Snyder did not close the sidewalk - that was Prince Georges county because of compalints of Police and residents - Snyder charges second most in the league even (actually I heard third) even though the econmic costs of this area are MUCH higher than most cities - only New York is more and they get help from the state of New Jersey and they have two teams that share the staduim which lowers some costs. Snyder has to pay for all of our stadium. - - Jack Kent Cooke owned the team in a different era. Anybody remember the first memorible thing JKC did as an owner? - He fired George Allen - the coach who never had a losing season! Then he hired Pardee and struggled for many years, much like our last few years - then he got it right by hiring Joe Gibbs, who at the time was a gamble - kinda like Spurrier maybe? - There are no perfect owners. People are so quick to exploit the mistakes on Dan Snyder, but forget Jerry Jones patroling the sidelines DURING games and telling players DURING games what to do. Or Al Davis who has been through more 1 or 2 year coaches than anybody. Maybe Snyder ought to be more like the guy in Cinci who signs the least expensive players he find, hire his in-laws and cousins to run the organization and ask the players to return all of their jersey's at the end of the season. Snyder has proved that he'll do whatever it takes to win - including hiring (and paying) more assistants and specialists than any other team in the league, paying a D-coordinator more than some head coaches make. Now the only thing I can agree on is some of the little stuff like the scoreboard in the stadium and need to advertise everywhere possible - but hey, that's how he made his money. He's learning. - everyone needs to relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 I wanted to go to the Redskins game in NY on Sept. 19, but the cheapest ticket I can find is $150. Most are over $200. It just isn't worth going to games anymore. Kinda sucks and while I don't like it I'm happy to keep my money and watch the game for free on TV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark327 Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 several things-points i'd like to comment about on this post !! 1) i'm sure this guy Jowille isn't the only one to have these feelings about DS . many that do just won't say it out loud on a redskins forum . 2) the sidewalk issue is still in the courts according to the sun paper the other day , maybe Jowille is the one doing the sueing :laugh: Me i'd rather pay the extra $250 a year so i don't have to crawl back to my car after a game, besides i'd never make it to the game period . gotta have my cold ones before i go in it does save some money :cool: 3) commerical ? every stadium probly has them it's money in the bank for DS. 4) scores of other games would be nice to see , what's happening around the league . i truely do miss that 5) the additional seats being added to fed-ex as far as i'm concern . i am happy after waiting 10 yrs to have the seats in the upper deck that i do have. not that i can afford to move eslewhere anyway. so more power to DS , as long as he brings us a winner which i no doubt think is on the way 6) last and final statement , this guy is unhappy and most liely trolling , is their any way to check to see if it is actually Ravens777 :laugh: it's been awhile since he's been heard from ! :doh: :ravensuck :dallasuck :eaglesuck :gaintsuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkowi Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 I always think of last year when we were playing the Falcons and their owner was on the sideline during the game. He was even giving players a cell phone or something. No one said anything. The announcers were like "oh, and here is the falcons owner"...if Snyder did this he would have been castrated by the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Originally posted by arkowi I always think of last year when we were playing the Falcons and their owner was on the sideline during the game. He was even giving players a cell phone or something. No one said anything. The announcers were like "oh, and here is the falcons owner"...if Snyder did this he would have been castrated by the media. You would be referring to Arthur Blank, founder of Home Depot and the relatively new owner of the Falcons. Here's how Arthur Blank introduced himself to Atlanta and the NFL: he offered season tickets to Falcon games (a 10-game package including preseason) for $100. Arthur Blank earned his goodwill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbaugh Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Snyder made some doofus "kid-in-a- candy store moves early, e.g. deion, jeff george and some other moogs. Gibbs ought to be able to keep that kind of behavior down. But does anyone doubt that without the salary cap he would pay for any player in just about any amount for us to win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 those prices are decided upon by the websites and whoever is selling them, not by Snyder or anybody involved directly with the Redskins. whatever you pay on those seats, the extra is for profit towards the webpages/ticket companies. Buy online and it's not gonna be retail or face value. I got tickets for $150 a piece last year, got them in the mail and RIGHT ON the ticket it said $79 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Originally posted by arkowi I always think of last year when we were playing the Falcons and their owner was on the sideline during the game. He was even giving players a cell phone or something. No one said anything. The announcers were like "oh, and here is the falcons owner"...if Snyder did this he would have been castrated by the media. Good point - that was after the season opener last year and ironically, in Dallas. - He gave Vick his cell phone to use. - the game we played in Dallas last year - Jerry Jones on the sideline in the 2nd quarter of the game telling Larry Allen to get back in the game when he was hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowille Posted August 9, 2004 Author Share Posted August 9, 2004 Although I do have issues with the way Dan Snyder has run the team, I do think that he wants to win. I don't think he has made the best decisions in the past about some of the players an coaches (I agree about Deion, George, and Spurrier), he still has ended up making $$$$$$$. I just liked this guys rant on the newsgroup, thought I would pass it along. I believe that Danny Boy has gotten a little wiser as of late and has brought Joe Gibbs back to D.C.! Watch tomorrow night! The Skins are back! Jowille Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helluvaskinsfan Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 i'm sick of the snyder bashing,what he does doesn't always work,but no owner in the league puts forth more effort and money,he set the payroll record how many times now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDSKNfaithfull Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 With all the seats he has added and as smart as the guy is with marketing, WHY has he not added bouncing bleechers? He is a fan he should have thought of this a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTaylor42 Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Jowille, you just stated that you don't think DS wants to win. Does a owner that doesn't want to win, coax a hof coach out of retirement? I don't think so! I'm not saying he hasn't made mistakes, but you can't deny, he wants to win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jowille Posted August 9, 2004 Author Share Posted August 9, 2004 Read my last post, I said I DO think snyder wants to win. Especially since he coaxed Joe Gibbs out of retirement. I should have put the whole usenet post in quotation marks, they weren't my words, but those of some guy on alt.sports.football.pro.wash-redskins. I don't disagree with a lot of the things the usenet poster said, but I thought it was kind of funny and would stimulate discussion here, which obviously it did..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkowi Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Originally posted by Atlanta Skins Fan You would be referring to Arthur Blank, founder of Home Depot and the relatively new owner of the Falcons. Here's how Arthur Blank introduced himself to Atlanta and the NFL: he offered season tickets to Falcon games (a 10-game package including preseason) for $100. Arthur Blank earned his goodwill. That probably because they could not fill the seats for full price. A filled seat for 100 bucks is better than an empty seat for nothing. Especially with the blackout rules. That does not take away from that fact that it is cool that he did that. I didn't know about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Originally posted by jowille Read my last post, I said I DO think snyder wants to win. Especially since he coaxed Joe Gibbs out of retirement. I should have put the whole usenet post in quotation marks, they weren't my words, but those of some guy on alt.sports.football.pro.wash-redskins. I don't disagree with a lot of the things the usenet poster said, but I thought it was kind of funny and would stimulate discussion here, which obviously it did..... I understand you didn't post the rant, but I guess some people missed it. It seems that not everybody buys the media's "Dr. Evil" spin they put on Snyder, and like I said in my first reply - JKC had an adjustment period as well, and when he bought the team the NFL didn't have the "win now" ora it does now. That is all:peaceout: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. S Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Snyder wants to win badly, but I feel he puts money making up front in a lot of places. I dont understand why our ticket prices have to be that high still. He's expanded the stadium hardcore, he should maybe lower prices a little actually. Also, it does bother me to hear that commercials are played during games. I know that FedEx isnt a place of tradition, I just hope it can become one. I just think Snyder should now try and do more things for the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Originally posted by arkowi That probably because they could not fill the seats for full price. A filled seat for 100 bucks is better than an empty seat for nothing. Especially with the blackout rules. That does not take away from that fact that it is cool that he did that. I didn't know about that. Yeah, the Falcon couldn't sell shiz before Vick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Westbrook36 Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 Man, hire your old HOF coach and everyone gives the guy a free pass no matter how many times he gets caught screwing the fan over. Oh well. Whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskns21 Posted August 9, 2004 Share Posted August 9, 2004 :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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