w33dh0l3 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 :point2sky hasselbeck! okay how do you do sigs again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Made Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 If we released Wynn we could afford Ogunleye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskns21 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Henry Just one? Charles Haley. Simeon Rice is another one LaRoi Glover if we are truely talking D-Line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by nace14 i'm too skurrrred to think of what we'd have to give up for him. i really don't see hass being the answer. dolphs have been stuck with mediocre qb's trying to be a starting qb ever since marino left, i highly doubt they would get rid of a prime of his carreer dline man for another mediocre qb that the fans would rip apart in what would be destined to be the most fameously forgetable qb controversy ever: hassleback v feeley. wooooo hoooo can you image those headlines in miami. i would feel sorry for the miami fans. I see where you're getting at. At this rate though, the Dolphins have let out a cry for help in that they cannot keep Ogunleye. Jay Fiedler will most likely end up starting anyway, and if you add someone talented like Hasselback and have two first rounders in this years draft, they're bound to come up with SOMEBODY that can play. Wally, what do you mean they don't use WCO? Hasselback threw a pretty nifty bomb to Coles for a TD against the Phins last year, remember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by w33dh0l3 :point2sky hasselbeck! okay how do you do sigs again? It's okay, you got it right. Now she'll never leave you ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pocono Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 One minor point Renegade is that the link for the cap space list is from 6/20 2002 when the cap was 71M but your point that they have the cap space to bring in Ogun is still valid because they have more cap space than that list records IMO. They could also send Wynn on his merry way and create 2M of space in 04. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
w33dh0l3 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Renegade7 It's okay, you got it right. Now she'll never leave you ever again. I'd put "Don't trade Hasselbeck" in my sig, but that will have the relevance of last years' news in about 20 minutes or so. If I were the Dolphins I'd trade straight up, Ogunleye and both Hasselbecks, or maybe just her. Hmm.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by redskns56 Simeon Rice is another one LaRoi Glover if we are truely talking D-Line. Yeah, my theory isn't 100% acurate like I though it was. I just kept remebering the Hugh Douglas', Daryl Garndeners' and Stubbs'. It does seem that more bust than not though. I still think we'd be better off without Og and his contract and the Dolphins demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Pocono One minor point Renegade is that the link for the cap space list is from 6/20 2002 when the cap was 71M but your point that they have the cap space to bring in Ogun is still valid because they have more cap space than that list records IMO. They could also send Wynn on his merry way and create 2M of space in 04. My mistake, but I remember seeing in the post very recently that our cap space was close to $4 million. My bad, and thanks for pointing that out. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskns21 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Sebowski Yeah, my theory isn't 100% acurate like I though it was. I just kept remebering the Hugh Douglas', Daryl Garndeners' and Stubbs'. It does seem that more bust than not though. I still think we'd be better off without Og and his contract and the Dolphins demands. Isn't that the case with free agency at all positions? The people above came with huge red flags before they signed, Gardener - attitude, Douglas - Over 30, etc. Ogunleye is a young player who appears to be getting better, his only flag would be his contract demands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by w33dh0l3 I'd put "Don't trade Hasselbeck" in my sig, but that will have the relevance of last years' news in about 20 minutes or so. If I were the Dolphins I'd trade straight up, Ogunleye and both Hasselbecks, or maybe just her. Hmm.. More power to you, 33. :laugh: For the record, I remember the days right before we did the Bailey for Portis trade, I had someone write in big bold letters "Trade" right over Bailey's name on the back of the jersey. I wore to school twice before the trade was finalized. Just wanted to throw that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by redskns56 Isn't that the case with free agency at all positions? The people above came with huge red flags before they signed, Gardener - attitude, Douglas - Over 30, etc. Ogunleye is a young player who appears to be getting better, his only flag would be his contract demands. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Does anyone have a hard figure on our cap space? From what I remember we were about 4.5mil under and needed 3mil for our rookie pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Sebowski Does anyone have a hard figure on our cap space? From what I remember we were about 4.5mil under and needed 3mil for our rookie pool. Salary cap was one of the first links I gave in the first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 http://extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63816 for further cap clarrification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Renegade7, you're on the right track about the Skins being able to afford Ogunleye. You just had once piece of wrong info. The link that you posted for ESPN.com showing the available cap space is from the 2002 Season. Tuesday, February 12 Updated: June 20, 6:00 PM ET Salary cap status of all 32 teams -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By John Clayton ESPN.com Below is the amount of money each team is under or over the $71.101 million salary cap for 2002 as of June 20. Other than that you're right about Samuels and Wynn's contracts being the key to affording Ogunleye. Samuels alone would probably be enough to afford him. His cap hit is $8,750,000. Of that amount $2,932,000 is his signing bonus allocation. The rest is a base salary of $5,132,000 plus there is a $686,000 bonus that could be converted to signing bonus and prorated over the remaining years of his contract freeing up about $4,000,000 off of this years cap. I know that at the begining of free agency it was being reported that he refused to renegotiate but I read in the Washington Post several months ago that he never refused to accept his salary as a signing bonus. He just didn't want to sign a long term contract before the 2004 season. He felt that his play was not up to his standard the last couple of years and so he wouldn't have received the type of contract that he wanted. He wants to play this year to show that he's still a top tackle and then do a contract extension after the 2004 season. So those salary amounts that you posted for 2005 and 2006 will be lower with a new contract. Wynn's cap hit this year is $2,583,000. $2,000,000 is in base salary so if they needed to they could convert that amount to signing bonus and free up another $1,500,000 off this years cap. With Wynn's cap hit jumping $2.5 this year to $4.5 next year something probably will be done either a restructure or a release. The Redskins should have somewhere in the neighborhood of $4-5 million in cap space right now. So if the Skins needed to by restructuring you're looking at the Redskins being able to free up another $5,500,000 to sign someone if they needed to. Just one more point, this is not just speculating that they could sign Ogunleye this way this is in fact the way that the skins have done it in the last several years when they needed to free up cap space to sign free agents. In 2003 Lavar converted $5,510,000 of base salary to salary cap bonus when they needed some room. Also in 2003, Chris Samuels converted $3.3 mil in base salary, a $400,000 workout bonus and a $1,000,000 roster bonus to prorated bonus dollars for a total cap savings of $3.7 mil. And Trotter converted $970,000 of his base in 2003. So if they wanted Ogunleye they could do it the same way that they've been doing it for the last couple of years. The way I feel about it is if they sign him I'll be glad that the defense has another weapon to use. If they don't, then I will still be just as fired up to see the Skins play this year. I have faith that this coaching staff will address any area of need that this team has whether that be now or next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Hog Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I personally am of the belief that if the coaching staff was so concerned about our defensive line situation, in particular acquiring a so-called "impact" guy along the line, they wouldn't have waited until June 21st and beyond to address the issue. With that being said, I realize that maybe the possibility of acquiring Adewale via trade say back in April or May weren't as good as they are now. However, other options were present when free agency approached. Additionally, there is one other important consideration that we may be possibly overlooking here. On numerous occassions, we've talked about or heard about the importance of the three mini-camps we've held, and how they would go a long way towards getting everybody on the same wavelength and developing team chemistry. Whether we want to admit it or not, Ogunleye would have some catching up to do in this regard. Furthermore, I believe all we have to do is look at the Brunell acquisition to see the type of importance our coaching staff places on having a core group of players assembled at an early stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Now to drop this insanity about the Ogunleye getting 15 sacks souly because he played along side Jason Taylor. Two words....Dana Blubberfield. He looked great playing next to Bryant Young. Next to lesser players like say Big Daddy he looked like a big tub of :pooh: I'm not saying this is the case with Oguleye. However, it is something we have to take into account in our risk assessment. IF we were to do this deal and Ogunleye turned out not to be as advertised, we'd be fairly hamstrung cap wise and would be down a player to boot. In short, for me the price, both to sign him AND what we'd have to give the Phish to get the deal done, would have to be very right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Governor Renegade7, you're on the right track about the Skins being able to afford Ogunleye. You just had once piece of wrong info. The link that you posted for ESPN.com showing the available cap space is from the 2002 Season. Tuesday, February 12 Updated: June 20, 6:00 PM ET Salary cap status of all 32 teams -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By John Clayton ESPN.com Below is the amount of money each team is under or over the $71.101 million salary cap for 2002 as of June 20. Other than that you're right about Samuels and Wynn's contracts being the key to affording Ogunleye. Samuels alone would probably be enough to afford him. His cap hit is $8,750,000. Of that amount $2,932,000 is his signing bonus allocation. The rest is a base salary of $5,132,000 plus there is a $686,000 bonus that could be converted to signing bonus and prorated over the remaining years of his contract freeing up about $4,000,000 off of this years cap. I know that at the begining of free agency it was being reported that he refused to renegotiate but I read in the Washington Post several months ago that he never refused to accept his salary as a signing bonus. He just didn't want to sign a long term contract before the 2004 season. He felt that his play was not up to his standard the last couple of years and so he wouldn't have received the type of contract that he wanted. He wants to play this year to show that he's still a top tackle and then do a contract extension after the 2004 season. So those salary amounts that you posted for 2005 and 2006 will be lower with a new contract. Wynn's cap hit this year is $2,583,000. $2,000,000 is in base salary so if they needed to they could convert that amount to signing bonus and free up another $1,500,000 off this years cap. With Wynn's cap hit jumping $2.5 this year to $4.5 next year something probably will be done either a restructure or a release. The Redskins should have somewhere in the neighborhood of $4-5 million in cap space right now. So if the Skins needed to by restructuring you're looking at the Redskins being able to free up another $5,500,000 to sign someone if they needed to. Just one more point, this is not just speculating that they could sign Ogunleye this way this is in fact the way that the skins have done it in the last several years when they needed to free up cap space to sign free agents. In 2003 Lavar converted $5,510,000 of base salary to salary cap bonus when they needed some room. Also in 2003, Chris Samuels converted $3.3 mil in base salary, a $400,000 workout bonus and a $1,000,000 roster bonus to prorated bonus dollars for a total cap savings of $3.7 mil. And Trotter converted $970,000 of his base in 2003. So if they wanted Ogunleye they could do it the same way that they've been doing it for the last couple of years. The way I feel about it is if they sign him I'll be glad that the defense has another weapon to use. If they don't, then I will still be just as fired up to see the Skins play this year. I have faith that this coaching staff will address any area of need that this team has whether that be now or next year. That's a pretty beast post for your first one. Way to make an impression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Rejuvenated Canadian Hog I personally am of the belief that if the coaching staff was so concerned about our defensive line situation, in particular acquiring a so-called "impact" guy along the line, they wouldn't have waited until June 21st and beyond to address the issue. With that being said, I realize that maybe the possibility of acquiring Adewale via trade say back in April or May weren't as good as they are now. However, other options were present when free agency approached. Additionally, there is one other important consideration that we may be possibly overlooking here. On numerous occassions, we've talked about or heard about the importance of the three mini-camps we've held, and how they would go a long way towards getting everybody on the same wavelength and developing team chemistry. Whether we want to admit it or not, Ogunleye would have some catching up to do in this regard. Furthermore, I believe all we have to do is look at the Brunell acquisition to see the type of importance our coaching staff places on having a core group of players assembled at an early stage. The mini-camps are important in a since, but because of the fact that the players were already rushed a load of information means to me they'd do just the same to Ogunleye if we aquired him. There have been post-June 1st signing before, and I don't believe missing the mini-camps will hinder him in his first year here as much as you think. Remember, Lawyer Millow was cut right before the season started. He turned out alright didn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Yusuf06 Two words....Dana Blubberfield. He looked great playing next to Bryant Young. Next to lesser players like say Big Daddy he looked like a big tub of :pooh: I'm not saying this is the case with Oguleye. However, it is something we have to take into account in our risk assessment. IF we were to do this deal and Ogunleye turned out not to be as advertised, we'd be fairly hamstrung cap wise and would be down a player to boot. In short, for me the price, both to sign him AND what we'd have to give the Phish to get the deal done, would have to be very right. Understood. Did you see the game clip i posted earlier? Just out of curiousity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Renegade7 Salary cap was one of the first links I gave in the first post. Ohhhhhhh! We're talking making room for him LAST year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Author Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Sebowski Ohhhhhhh! We're talking making room for him LAST year? No, we're talking about making room for him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallyG3 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Honestly, I didn't see much in that clip. A sack and a knock down against a piss poor OL. Watching the other clips, he didn't seem to be as elite as his salary demands. It was this one, right? http://www.miamidolphins.com/pressbox/finstheater/finstheater.asp?docid=12698 Once again, I'll just have to rely on our Team President to make the right decision. If Coach deems him worthy, than so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan93 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Another reason that this trade might go through is that Ogunleye's agent is Drew Rosenhaus. Rosenhaus has a great working relationship with Synder. I definitely see a possible "behind the scenes" trade going on here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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