Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Dickens Johnyquest I have to ask why you think the Skins shouldn't make the deal for a first and a fourth. You don't seem to think the dollar amount is the problem since you seem to think we could clear the space? So I assume you have a problem with giving up the picks? Why? By most Skins fans accounts our weakest position is pass rushing DE. I assume that's what we would be looking to draft in '05, right? Well why not get a proven guy for the extra cost of a fourth rounder, instead of using it on a young unproven player who may take 3 years to come around? Because he's not a Gibbs type player, man! :laugh: *I hope I never hear that phrase again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaleighSkinsMann Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Anyone know how many years this guy has left on his original contract?......It would be cool to get a trade done and try to sign him long term next year.......kinda how portis was acquired..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dickens Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 A first and Rod Gardner. Of course you make that deal. Why are people so beholden to a first round pick especially when we will probably spend it on a DE anyway? And Rod Gardner, please. Do I need to repeat all our gripes about his inconsitency. Wideouts like him are dime a dozen in this league, seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by RaleighSkinsMann Anyone know how many years this guy has left on his original contract?......It would be cool to get a trade done and try to sign him long term next year.......kinda how portis was acquired..... Zero. He's a RFA and hasn't signed a new contract yet. We can trade for the rights though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Yeah, it will be sort of like what the Giants did to grab Eli right?[/Quote]Well, that won't be known for several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 STAY OUT of it, Tom!![/Quote]Nope, uh uh, no way and you can't make me. :nana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Tom [Giants fan] Nope, uh uh, no way and you can't make me. :nana: Oh, we'll think of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 This would be a bad move. Too much money and too much compensation. Name one stud D-Lineman that stayed a stud after getting a big new contract and going to a new team. Besides Reggie White I can't think of any (could just have a selective memory?). They all bust. Never work out. D-line needs to be developed in house. Low-key FA's are the way to go with this position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLSKINSFAN Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Low-key FA's are the way to go with this position. That strategy has been a real winner so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Sebowski This would be a bad move. Too much money and too much compensation. Name one stud D-Lineman that stayed a stud after getting a big new contract and going to a new team. Besides Reggie White I can't think of any (could just have a selective memory?). They all bust. Never work out. D-line needs to be developed in house. Low-key FA's are the way to go with this position. Quit spamming, Sebowski! You posted that exact same post loaded with crap on my thread. Add some substance to the matter and quit complaining. Atleast give us some other options. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Dickens Johnyquest I have to ask why you think the Skins shouldn't make the deal for a first and a fourth. You don't seem to think the dollar amount is the problem since you seem to think we could clear the space? So I assume you have a problem with giving up the picks? Why? By most Skins fans accounts our weakest position is pass rushing DE. I assume that's what we would be looking to draft in '05, right? Well why not get a proven guy for the extra cost of a fourth rounder, instead of using it on a young unproven player who may take 3 years to come around? I think if they really wanted him they could clear the space by some combination of reworking contracts (e.g., Samuels), cuts (e.g., Wynn) and creative contract structuring (e.g., roster bonuses). So that wouldn't really bother me. But I wouldn't be too keen on giving up a 1st and a 4th round pick. That would leave us with a 3rd, 6th, and 7th for next year. That would definitely be a win now philosophy because we wouldn't be cultivating hardly any in-house, home-grown talent. You can still win with that philosophy but it is much more expensive. Imagine how many people on this board would b!tch and moan at next years draft that we never have any/enough draft picks. So I would hope that anyone that says to go ahead with this type of deal wouldn't gripe next Spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 I would like to get this guy. I think our current D-line stinks. I also don't want to over compensate to get him either. I wouldn't give up Gardner and a 2nd rounder though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebowski Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Renegade7 Quit spamming, Sebowski! You posted that exact same post loaded with crap on my thread. Add some substance to the matter and quit complaining. Atleast give us some other options. :mad: Yup. We needed a new thread for this. :doh: I'm working on my backup. I still haven't had anyone prove me wrong either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Originally posted by Sebowski Yup. We needed a new thread for this. :doh: I'm working on my backup. I still haven't had anyone prove me wrong either. Bring me something to prove you wrong on that I haven't proven other wrong on before. I'm sike of preaching to the chior here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GURU Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 Name one stud D-Lineman that stayed a stud after getting a big new contract and going to a new team. That statement is fairly laughable. Lots of busts. Lots of success stories, too. How about Simeon Rice? No Pro Bowls with Arizona, and he's got two straight with Tampa Bay. Last I checked, Kevin Carter was still one of the top RDEs in the league, moving from St. Louis to Tennessee. Sean Jones was hardly a bust when he moved from the Oilers to the Packers. Reggie White wouldn't have been nearly as effective without Jones coming from the other side. Denver won two Super Bowls with two free agent defensive ends: Neil Smith (K.C.) and Alfred Williams (Cinncinati). Want a story almost exactly like Ogunleye's, so far? In '96, Seattle DE Michael McCrary was coming off a 13.5 sack season and into free agency. He was an unheralded, undrafted player who seemed to come out of nowhere, and, like Ogunleye, he played opposite a great pass rushing RDE (Michael Sinclair). Same questions as Ogunleye: He was too small. He played next to Cortez Kennedy and opposite Michael Sinclair, so many wondered if he wasn't just a product of those other players' successes. He had only one season of double-digit sacks. Well, McCrary signed with Baltimore in '97, became a more complete DE, made the Pro Bowl twice for a great defensive unit, and was one of Marvin Lewis' favorite players. And the Ravens' other DE when they won the Super Bowl, Rob Burnett, was a free agent pickup the same year as McCrary. Was he a bust, too? The one legit thing to consider is that most of those players had less success in the first year with their new teams. But a transition period to a new team and new system is understandable. It's also preferable to the adjustment period that most rookies go through. To me, Ogunleye is a better risk than most young DEs around, and a much better risk than just about any rookie. So if we were to trade for Ogunleye and his production dropped off for a season, we would still be ahead of the game than if we didn't trade for him and drafted some rookie DE next year. I think you just gotta explore making that deal, because Ogunleye is just the type of player this defense currently lacks. There may not be another opportunity to acquire a player of Ogunleye's caliber in the near future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted June 21, 2004 Share Posted June 21, 2004 You guys are overrating Gardner. He had more trade value LAST offseason. He has shown that he can't get separation from the better defensive backs and sometimes goes to sleep on routes. He is not a bust, but as a #15 pick the Redskins are not getting full value out of his selection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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