aREDSKIN Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Originally posted by Zen-like Todd That is the furthest off base analysis I have seen in WEEKS on this board, which is saying something. The aggregate number of tackles is a ridiculous statistic to go by. It is heavily influenced by scheme and position. Not only does Lavar not play in the middle, but teams constantly account for him, double team him, run away from him, etc. People like Derek Smith regularly rack up well over 100 tackles a year, but no one is suggesting he is anything more than an average linebacker in this league. And here's some more food for thought. The more you are used at the line to rush the passer, the less tackles you get. Go look it up if you don't believe me. You certainly are at a loss....for something. Well you if one needs some type of "measurement" to analyse on field performance/production from a LB then tackles ranks up their at #1. If ones uses that as a basis and check out the stats at NFL.com LA dosen't even register in the top 30 in solo tackles and ranks dead last in combined tackles. At 67 solo tackles last year that's averages to 1 per quarter per game. ONE. Even if one uses your rationalization of LA being use as an DE and thereby reducing his tackle opportunities and totals he still dosen't even register in the top 30 of sackers last year. That in my book dosen't qualify anyone, even LA, to be the highest paid at your position. Again it's just my opinion and I understand there are many out there that disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen-like Todd Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Originally posted by aREDSKIN Well you if one needs some type of "measurement" to analyse on field performance/production from a LB then tackles ranks up their at #1. If ones uses that as a basis and check out the stats at NFL.com LA dosen't even register in the top 30 in solo tackles and ranks dead last in combined tackles. At 67 solo tackles last year that's averages to 1 per quarter per game. ONE. Even if one uses your rationalization of LA being use as an DE and thereby reducing his tackle opportunities and totals he still dosen't even register in the top 30 of sackers last year. That in my book dosen't qualify anyone, even LA, to be the highest paid at your position. Again it's just my opinion and I understand there are many out there that disagree. Its not rationalization, its reality. Go look up the tackle statistics. Look at the linebackers with high numbers of sacks. Look how many tackles they make. Look at the linebackers with high numbers of tackles. Notice that the top 20 is absolutely loaded with MIDDLE linebackers, not outside backers. You need a new book. Yahoo Sports is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsbadd Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Lavar is a special player and I think a lot of what he says may be over analyised by us fans. It was tough last year to see him try to win games by himself ,along with Coles,Ramsey and a few others that played like they really cared. If you watched him blow up people in the probowl you get a idea of how great a linebacker he is. I wish Ray Lewis was on the other side of the field every game. I don't blame him for saying he has a wait and see attitude about Gibbs or any other coach the Redskins bring in. Lavar hasn't seen anything but turnover since he's been a Redskin. The contract issue will not efffect his play, that will work it self out, and if the Redskins start winning nobody will remember it during the season. Whats going to hurt is if we go to Lavar in a couple years and ask him to redo the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aNewGibbsEra Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Originally posted by ArmchairRedskin I like the fact that he was mature enough to go on record and say he was wrong to complain about the way Marvin Lewis used him and would like to give him a call and admit he was wrong. I agree, BUT, i have to say i think marvin used him to blitz wayyyy too much. He's not a Derrick thomas. He is a versatile beast/freak that can cover the whole field and make plays all across the field. Marvin didnt let him do that at all. Thats why he had 60 tackles. Yes he had 11 sacks, but a guy like this should have 120+ tackles easily. Honestly i was quite frustrated seeing him lined up on da line almost every snap. Also, ppl who are gettin fed up with Lavar... this is 6.5 MILLION dollars we're talkin about. thats 10% of his contract. Thats a HUGE deal. Whether its da postons who are settin this up or whatever who knows? But either way, he has a right to be upset for now and theres nothing for him to do but put his trust in his agents for the time being. As unfortunate as it is..... the postons represent lavar. He still always shows love for the fans and the Redskins as an organization. But yea, he did say he loved seeing ppl with his jerseys on n stuff. I wonder why he wont sign with players ass. And how did that get mixed up? How did they think he signed and make some jerseys and then say he didnt and stop making them. Is it da F#$%'n Postons again??? They need to be buried.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panthro Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 With a player like Lavar, it's difficult to pin stats on him to rate his position in the NFL. Yea, he might have x # of tackles in a given season with y # of sacks. But it's more about what teams do to avoid LA during those games and how he disrupts their game plan than anything else. His mere presence on the field bodes catastrophe for most offenses. We will all see this season just how much he's worth to this team under a DC who knows how to use him to his full potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottb Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 The fans love Lavar and the NFL loves Lavar. Yeah you can complain about facets of his perfomance, but he brings an energy, passion, and smile to the game that endears him both to the fans and the media. I'm glad he's a Redskin. Of course, like his critics on this board, I do hope he improves his game to reflect his potential. But make no mistake, he is already an effective linebacker as attested by his multiple pro bowl appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The X-Factor Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 LaVar is the face of the franchise. When most people think of the Redskins, most likley the first player that will come to mind is LaVar. Sure, he has not performed quite up to par with his potential, but he still makes enough big plays to earn him respect from the fans and his opponents. No player is perfect, they will all make mistakes from time to time, it's just part of human nature. However, the fact remains that he is our "franchise player" and he has done nothing substancial to blow it with the fans. The contract incident was infortunate but he was mature enough to move on from it. If that's not reason enough to see that he wants to be here, I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumboSauce Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 "The fans love Lavar and the NFL loves Lavar. Yeah you can complain about facets of his perfomance, but he brings an energy, passion, and smile to the game that endears him both to the fans and the media. I'm glad he's a Redskin. Of course, like his critics on this board, I do hope he improves his game to reflect his potential. But make no mistake, he is already an effective linebacker as attested by his multiple pro bowl appearances." ^^^^ I share those sentiments! well put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin West Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 This is Football. Not "American Idol." What fans think doesn't matter. It doesn't increases his sacks, tackles, forced fumbles, hurries,or any other stat. It doesn't influence what he does in pass coverage. Nor does it effect what offenses do to account for him. The fact is that Lavar is a Pro Bowl Linebacker who has yet to reach his potential despite being used and moved by a variety of Defensive Co-ordinators. Given a creative DC and Sean Taylor to watch his back, I expect Lavar to have a HUGE year. Let the fans re-act to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woofer Posted May 10, 2004 Author Share Posted May 10, 2004 Originally posted by Kevin West This is Football. Not "American Idol." What fans think doesn't matter. It doesn't increases his sacks, tackles, forced fumbles, hurries,or any other stat. It doesn't influence what he does in pass coverage. Nor does it effect what offenses do to account for him. The fact is that Lavar is a Pro Bowl Linebacker who has yet to reach his potential despite being used and moved by a variety of Defensive Co-ordinators. Given a creative DC and Sean Taylor to watch his back, I expect Lavar to have a HUGE year. Let the fans re-act to that. It may not be "American Idol" but it is a fan driven business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chachie Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Ray Lewis is the only defensive player in the NFL who can operate COMPLETELY seperate from the way his unit is playing. Lavar must be IN a good defense (like any player) to be a GREAT player. This means he's going to need a GOOD defensive line. We have the secondary, which will help him alot, but when this defense BECOMES a real mean unit we will see an all-time-great at LB in our man Lavar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMetal Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Phew...strong opinions all around on this one. At the risk of sounding treasonous, Lavar has really p*ssed me off the past few months and he has easily become my LEAST favorite Redskin. I have followed his career since I lived in Pennsylvania right in the heart of Penn St. country, and I was excited as anyone when we drafted him, but the guy has become a distraction and a source of negativity on this team recently, IMO. His reluctance to publicly embrace Gibbs, the licensing dispute, the ridiculous contract dispute, his refusal to hold his own agents accountable for their stupidity, all lead me to believe he is another example of the prototypical selfish, immature athlete. I get that he's had five different coordinators/systems to play under, and that can impact the on the field efficiency. And I'm not ready to villify the guy for missed assignments and the continuous freelancing. Those are coaching points that can be worked out over time. (Hopefully) But the way the guy conducts himself off the field really disappoints me. This contract dispute stuff should have been handled in-house. Dragging the dirty laundry through the media doesn't help his position, and it hurts the team's image needlessly. However you spin it, it comes down to Lavar pitting himself against the Redskins, and my loyalty will always lie with the latter. I hope he has a great year. I hope he finds the maturity and committment to excellence that will better the team and his own game. But it'll take awhile for the bitter taste of this offseason to dissipate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 LaVar has not dropped the grievance, but did say 6 million was not worth his relationship with the Redskin fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Another lob touchdown over his head to the TE and I'm going to lose it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusinFlorida Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Lavar is an impact player and the fans love that fact. As long as he does not let this affect his play (i.e. he shows up to training camp and follows the coaches instructions) he will be OK by me. It appears as though his agent(s) screwed this up, but the full facts of what really happened regarding his contract dispute have yet to emerge. If the agents screwed up, Lavar should fire them and sue for the difference. If they find out the Skins organization was legally wrong then Dan Snyder should pay. Let's just hope Lavar keeps this on a business level and continues to take his aggressions out on the opposing teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avg Joe Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Originally posted by fish Look, Bottomline up Front is: NO WAY! He has a point that the team has jerked him around with a new coach and/or scheme every year. I would be frustrated too. And unless he was a Redskins fan as a kid, he probably doesn't REALLY REALLY know his return means. The issue about the contract can also be understandable somewhat. You are supposed to be to trust your agent. Someday the sun will come out and LaVar will see the light on this one. Once Gibbs gets the team and the whole organization starightened out and we start winning, LaVar will be fine. He has displayed leadership and he is an obvious talent, so I DEF don't think he has burned any bridges yet. I don't he even close. What re the other issues? Am I missing something tat has the majority of respondants complaining that he is close to blowing it? Fill me in. Now this is the most sensible response I've seen. It trips me out the grief Lavar gets. It's like everything else has been in order and he's been the one slacking. How bout we let him play in the same system and have the same coach for more than 1 yr. I don't know one player who changes schemes every year and is killing the league. I'd say he's done pretty well considering the circumstances. As for the off field stuff. I couldn't care less. I don't get into that, I don't pay his salary and I'm not in his shoes, so I won't begin to make judgements on him. I can't speak for anybody else, but Lavar is cool with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 He gets love from me for the time being Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harriet Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthcat Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Lavar is the Monster and he knows it. That muddles his mind. As bad as we have been, who here hasn't got a jolt from watching him chase someone down from across the field. He needs to do a little Archie Bell and the Drells. I love that he is a Redskin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECU-ALUM Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 I don't think he has...I think he is getting very frustrated by changes every off-season...once we start winning again I think he'll be all-right. :point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfriedm Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Lavar is a gifted Line backer. He is a rare breed and needs to have the freedom to rome more. That is one of the man reasons why Williams is moving him to the weak side. The side that has less responsablties, as far a pass coverage is concerned. He will be able to play his game and just wreak havok on offenses. I don't know how anybody can not like Lavar. He goes out there and gives it his all on every play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Originally posted by McMetal Phew...strong opinions all around on this one. At the risk of sounding treasonous, Lavar has really p*ssed me off the past few months and he has easily become my LEAST favorite Redskin. I have followed his career since I lived in Pennsylvania right in the heart of Penn St. country, and I was excited as anyone when we drafted him, but the guy has become a distraction and a source of negativity on this team recently, IMO. His reluctance to publicly embrace Gibbs, the licensing dispute, the ridiculous contract dispute, his refusal to hold his own agents accountable for their stupidity, all lead me to believe he is another example of the prototypical selfish, immature athlete. I get that he's had five different coordinators/systems to play under, and that can impact the on the field efficiency. And I'm not ready to villify the guy for missed assignments and the continuous freelancing. Those are coaching points that can be worked out over time. (Hopefully) But the way the guy conducts himself off the field really disappoints me. This contract dispute stuff should have been handled in-house. Dragging the dirty laundry through the media doesn't help his position, and it hurts the team's image needlessly. However you spin it, it comes down to Lavar pitting himself against the Redskins, and my loyalty will always lie with the latter. I hope he has a great year. I hope he finds the maturity and committment to excellence that will better the team and his own game. But it'll take awhile for the bitter taste of this offseason to dissipate... I totally agree, & the funny thing is, when I mention it to my friends, they're all like,"Well, it doesn't affect his on-field persona, so just let it go!" Well, I can't let it go. First, it was the contract dispute, then it was his jersey being on the open market. What's next? Is he gonna start complaining when ESPN talks about him on the news? What's he gonna do? Tell them that they are not allowed to use his name so frequently? I love LaVar Arrington. As soon as his jersey was available to buy thru the stores, I was on it like a fat kid on a cupcake, but I'm getting rather tired of his offseason antics that drag this organization thru the mud. I think that #56 is already one of the top LBs of our time & will one day be the best there ever was, but if he doesn't stop with this nonsense off the field, I'm not sure that I care where he is. Don't get me wrong, I would love for him to stay a Redskin his full career, but I've been a Redskins fan my entire life, long before Arrington was even born. He is like all other players, he will come & go before we all know it. I hope he stops this kinda crap because I feel awful that I feel this way, but I am a Redskins fan, despite who we have or don't have. If he goes, he goes & I'll learn to live with that. But I can't take anymore of this crybaby sh*t about money. I wish I had his money problems. :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallsux Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Originally posted by aREDSKIN Well you if one needs some type of "measurement" to analyse on field performance/production from a LB then tackles ranks up their at #1. If ones uses that as a basis and check out the stats at NFL.com LA dosen't even register in the top 30 in solo tackles and ranks dead last in combined tackles. At 67 solo tackles last year that's averages to 1 per quarter per game. ONE. Even if one uses your rationalization of LA being use as an DE and thereby reducing his tackle opportunities and totals he still dosen't even register in the top 30 of sackers last year. That in my book dosen't qualify anyone, even LA, to be the highest paid at your position. Again it's just my opinion and I understand there are many out there that disagree. :helmet: Stats mean nothing on the field. What I mean by that is that all too often, opponents are accounting for LA. They run in the opposite direction that he has lined up, they double team him, they run some sort of trick play to take him out of the situation. I would rather them do that then run the ball at him. Why? Because that shows that they are afraid of him, as they should be. When he has the opportunity, he has the fastest closing speed on the ball I think I have ever seen. He can run across the field (sideline to sideine) so fast, it even amazes the players on the field. It's all part of the team effort to win. If entire offensive schemes are wrapped around getting away from someone on the offense, he's doing his part. The only Redskin that I thought was overpaid in recent years, wasn't even a Redskin, in my mind, & that was Deion Sanders. Bruce Smith comes to mind too. Stats don't mean everything & you also have to remember that stats mean nothing on the field. It's about winning. Yea, there are guys who have tried to get thier stats to be #1 in their position of all time (ie Emmitt "The Crybaby" Smith, Bruce Smith, Michael Strahan), but my feeling is that if you don't make it to the Super Bowl, then your stats don't mean didly to the team effort & that's what football is all about-the other 10 guys around you. :logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey T Posted May 12, 2004 Share Posted May 12, 2004 I'm cool with LaVar. He is a great athlete. Too bad he's had to play under a different DC every year since he was drafted. Same with Smoot, by the way:laugh: If he indeed plays the WSLB postition this year, I believe he will wreak havoc, not to mention create total chaos for opposing offenses. I like the pick up of Barrow. On paper, we have the BEST LB corps in the league. Speed on the outside, power and brains up the middle:cool: I hope the 'Skins play with a Jimmy Johnson mentality and 'bring it' darn near every down. That's one gap and give 'em he!! Not to mention an occasional blitz by LaVar & Co.:laugh: Any bets on him putting McNabb on IR after our first meeting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchdown Portis! Posted May 13, 2004 Share Posted May 13, 2004 I love LaVar Arington, I wouldn't take any other LB over him, not Urlacher, not Ray-Ray, LaVar's OUR boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.