SkinsRback04 Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 I thought the guy made great sense. Figured it was topical here with all of the whining about the D-Line. Sometimes you have to think outside of the box...then the numbers start to make sense. http://67.18.125.34/~hailreds/vbforum/showthread.php?t=11584 Posted by: RedskinsVision Greg Williams will offset any DL weakness -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- guys.. out of all the games last year.. i thought the BUFFALO DEFENSE was the BEST. they held us down to 169 total yards! Williams did this to us w/ out a pass rush! they only had 2 sacks on us for -6 yards total on coverage sacks. we had 8 1st downs the entire game w/ Ramsey completing ONLY 9 passes out of 28 throws for 110 yards! we only had 59 yards rushing on 23 carries. Williams hardly blitzed us that much during the game.. he confused our offense w/ mad stunts, different looks and an assortment of defensive packages which utilized his secondary more than anything.. Williams' schemes was what did us in.. he did not rely on pass rush.. he did it w/ a suffocating secondary and LB play (A. Winfield, N. Clements, L. Milloy, J. Posey, T. Spikes & L. Fletcher). and that was when we were 3-3 and all Redskins players were talking about how important that game was.. and we got ran out of the building by Williams' D! Williams' entire DL only had 22 sacks all year and most of them was by A. Schobel w/ 12.. S. Adams had 5 and R. Denney had 4. he only had Schobel and Adams (he did a good job taking on blockers but he was not dominant) as real factors on the DL.. he had bunch of no-names playing DL.. and they had one of the best defenses (#2 in the league despite having the #28 ranked offense). i think we should give Williams a lot of credit as a defensive genius.. he and Gibbs have said confidently that we will stop the run and rush the passer better. that's why we've been adding depth to our secondary and upgrading our LBs.. he has proven he doesn't need a dominating pass rush to get the job done. just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opiate-Zeo Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 wow, I hope that's the case. That would rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty Gut Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Very interesting. I hope the same success translates to us this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da_Truth Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Maybe run stuffers are more important in his Defensive schemes they way it sounds like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfdc Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Thanks SkinsRBack04, I actually had my post wrong on saying the defense slipped, but it was meant to be OFFENSE, from the year before. That was blamed on Williams, unfairly so, but he took it like a man and walked - right into FEDEX baby!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 I think that is a very accurate assesment of what this defense hopes to accomplish. Granted, I will say that our offense last year had some serious weak links.... The numbers also don't show all the hits and pressures Ramsey took. Either way, If you look at Williams' D with the Titans, he took a very similar approach, but haveing Kearse that first year was huge. Hopefully, Barrow can fill a run stuffing role along with Arrington and Washington providing the bulk of the pressure against the QB. There is a large amount of griping, yet at the same time there are many on this site who are believers in not just Williams' schemes, but Joe Gibbs ability to motivate, help sell them and get all the players to buy into a common goal. THAT I believe is the most important thing this franchise hasn't had in thirteen years. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsRback04 Posted April 28, 2004 Author Share Posted April 28, 2004 Originally posted by IAMBG I think that is a very accurate assesment of what this defense hopes to accomplish. Granted, I will say that our offense last year had some serious weak links.... The numbers also don't show all the hits and pressures Ramsey took. Either way, If you look at Williams' D with the Titans, he took a very similar approach, but haveing Kearse that first year was huge. Hopefully, Barrow can fill a run stuffing role along with Arrington and Washington providing the bulk of the pressure against the QB. There is a large amount of griping, yet at the same time there are many on this site who are believers in not just Williams' schemes, but Joe Gibbs ability to motivate, help sell them and get all the players to buy into a common goal. THAT I believe is the most important thing this franchise hasn't had in thirteen years. :thumbsup: Agree on the need for need for at least one playmaker on the line...Someone capable of drawing double teams. But rather than coming strictly from end play and/or one person, if personnel doesn't significantly change this year it will likely be the product of superior coaching and adjustment. Many times coaches see small things on film and in practice which when adjusted properly can push a player onto a different level. We have said for years that the Skins had talent and cry out for coaching. Well I think we finally got our wish in spades. Now we will see if the talent really has been there all along. If it isn't you know the FO will make some moves in late FA but nothing splashy as that probably won't be required. Well said about Gibbs motivational skills. It's great to have THE BEST COACH back in town. And look Ma!...he's brought a posse with him!!! Life is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 What hurt Buffalo last year was an anemic offense, which kept the defense on the field much longer than it should have been. Remember, Moulds was a shadow of his former self due to a bad hamstring or groin. Price was gone, and Josh Reed didn't fit the bill. Although Henry ran hard, especially on a fractured foot, he lacked the abilty to change games. Oh.. and Bledsoe regressed, seeminly unable to read defenses and lacking the pieces to throw to in critical situations. We'll see such a huge difference in the overall performance of the defense that it will be hard to believe this is essentially the same DL roster, with Griffin and Daniels added, as last year. More specifically, I'm looking for Haley to have a big year holding up defensive lineman and allowing Barrow and Washington to make an inordinate amount of stops at the line of scrimmage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerpSkin Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Well, I agree that Williams schemes will help a lot and I hope that he is able to succeed with what we have... but Sam Adams by himself is better than our entire DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurman Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 I think what is being ignored here is that Williams ran a gimmick 3-4 defense in Buffalo. Does he plan to do that here? I think that style of defense confuses young offenses in general. Most offensive units struggle to play well against a 3-4 when they only see it once or twice every two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurman Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Originally posted by Cskin What hurt Buffalo last year was an anemic offense, which kept the defense on the field much longer than it should have been. And this is one reason why I believe Buffalo just had a better defense than Dallas. They faced way more plays and consequently more time of possession. Yet they matched Dallas in yards per play. Dallas only hold on 'best D in the NFL' is a ridiculous "yards per game" statistic that doesn't factor out a Dallas offense that was basically designed to limit the number of plays the defense had to face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TXREDSKINS44 Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 WOW that sounds promising!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinthePRF Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 A nice opening day present/revenge would be to drop a doughnut on the Bucs O like the Bills did to the Pats on opening day last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pennyizer Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Tell you what, if Williams gets this team to number 2 defense in the league....see you in Jacksonville. He has way more talent on this defense than in Buffalo too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuy Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Thanks for the post skinsRback. I agree with it. I think our defense will be much better this coming season. The coaching experience we've bought in alone will do that. There is a lot of talent on this D (made even more talented with the addition of Sean Taylor). No, the D-Line has no stars on it, but it is a group of GOOD, solid players who I think are better than thier play showed last season. You have to remember that, besides injuries, they were dealing with a coaching staff that had ZERO experience putting together and calling a defense. How lost the players looked out there I feel was a reflection on how lost and inexperienced the coaching staff was. Many of these players played on Marvin Lewis' defense when he was here, and they played good (especially at the end of the year when they were ranked fifth). Now with Lewis gone, many of these same players under 'well-meaning, but inexperienced at running a defense' Edwards suddenly STUNK? It doesn't take much here, folks, to conncet-the-dots and get the picture. Also, this defense will benefit GREATLY from Gibbs offense. No longer will this D be on the field for FORTY minutes of regulation time every game while the offense goes through a parade of 3-and-outs. Gibbs brand of smash-mouth, control the clock-type football will keep the defense on the sidelines more in game, meaning they will be fresh and won't be worn out by the end of the 3rd quarter like in most games last season. Plus, with Gibbs' care on special teams, I feel that will improve and help the D greatly as well. Meaning with better field position for us, and pinning the opposing teams deep (unlike last season where our opponents always seemed to be starting at our 40-yard line), our D won't have thier backs against the wall so much. Yep, with Gibbs and Williams here, I expect our D to look much better. Maybe start slow, but improve quickly. I, too, wouldn't mind one more guy in the D-line rotation who is a good pass rusher. But, whether we get that player or not, I think folks are going to find out what Gibbs and Williams already seem to know.... that our D-Line, while not great, isn't so bad after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WM_Marylander Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Wasn't Buffalo the game the old ball coach decided he'd 'go back to what he knew best'? I.e. the duck and chuck? I'm still a believer that Williams can work some magic with the system he runs, but putting that team (last years under achieving Spurrier team) up to the measuring stick might not be the strongest idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgensen4Prez Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Its the age old question on defense, does a great pass rush make it easier for the secondary, or does a great secondary make it easier to get a good pass rush? Honestly, you have to consider both cases as valid and I think Gibbs/Williams realized this and that's why they we drafted Sean Taylor. You have to play to your strengths and that is exactly what were doing. Above all, however, is that for the first time in 12 years we actually have compitent coach's on both sides of the ball and dont forget that a strong running game on offense will always help the defense...........god this year is going to be great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Im not going to be a nay-sayer for the sake of being one, but if we don’t have a player on the D line that garners a double team or able to have our D lineman get in the backfield, I can still see McNabb eating our lunch on broken plays. I suppose that Williams may have Arrington or Taylor be a spy on him during games, but who knows how this is going to work out. Hopefully Williams has studied enough film on McNabb to game plan around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple6mafia Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 that very well might work, but i would not mind picking up a very good pass rusher and maybe even add to the total Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GURU Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 This is EXACTLY the kind of defense that's going to give McNabb fits. Williams' defenses are very aggressive, but still disciplined. They are going to make him stay in the pocket and read defenses, not let him run wild. This IS a group of D-linemen that can push the pocket, although they might not garner a lot of sacks. If they have a disciplined pass rush by the front 4 and keep McNabb in the pocket, they have plenty of speed at LB and in the secondary to keep him from running wild. They don't even need to play with a spy because players like Arrington, Washington, and Taylor can wait 'til he crosses the line of scrimmage before breaking off their coverage and still run him down. Taylor will be McNabb's worst nightmare, both in coverage and whenever he decides to tuck it and run. This is one of the reasons we drafted Taylor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Originally posted by Oldskool Im not going to be a nay-sayer for the sake of being one, but if we don’t have a player on the D line that garners a double team or able to have our D lineman get in the backfield, I can still see McNabb eating our lunch on broken plays. I suppose that Williams may have Arrington or Taylor be a spy on him during games, but who knows how this is going to work out. Hopefully Williams has studied enough film on McNabb to game plan around him. Griffin has served as a spy against McNabb in games the Giants have faced him so we may not have to use a second level spy against him. Last year employing that type of spy, McNabb had 7 carries for -1 yards against the Giants. Of course, McNabb has also had over 100 yards against the Giants in a game I think so, he'll get his. Should Noble return you certainly have a guy who gets double teams. That's what Noble does by how he lines up and plays. He forces doubles as his job, not because he's great and scares teams. Williams runs a scheme generally better suited to the Eagles offense than the one we've been running so there should be improvement there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrfriedm Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Coaching is going to help out a lot, NO Doubt about it. However, you can't coach talent. You can only work with what the player brings to the table. They can teach, they work with, but give you talent, and that's what the Redskins are lacking on the d-line, Talent. :hammer: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpathRUskinsfan Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Thanks for the post. I remember watching that game. Buffalo's D severely kicked our a@@. If we can play half that good i will be impressed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurgensen4Prez Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 More food for thought.....with an unproven and potentially disappointing defensive line, what if we were to keep Trotter, and play a 3-4, starting arrington, and washington on the outside and barrow and trotter on the inside. I understand the salary cap implications, but this team is shaping up to win now, and this is one way to potentially do it. Besides, the 3-4 gives players more freedom to blitz and play spy (ie taylor and arrington). --------------------------------- "40 men together can never loose!" - George Allen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted April 28, 2004 Share Posted April 28, 2004 Originally posted by Art Griffin has served as a spy against McNabb in games the Giants have faced him so we may not have to use a second level spy against him. Last year employing that type of spy, McNabb had 7 carries for -1 yards against the Giants. Of course, McNabb has also had over 100 yards against the Giants in a game I think so, he'll get his. Should Noble return you certainly have a guy who gets double teams. That's what Noble does by how he lines up and plays. He forces doubles as his job, not because he's great and scares teams. Williams runs a scheme generally better suited to the Eagles offense than the one we've been running so there should be improvement there. If Griffin along with our faster LB’s and Taylor/Bowen/Ohalete can spy on McNabb and shut him down, Ill be one happy redskins fan. McNabb has killed us too many times with his feet versus his arm for my liking. My greatest hope for this defense is that Noble comes back as close to 100% healthy as possible this year. More than any other player, Noble may be the lynch pin for this defense. If he can garner double teams, he would let Griffin be more of a penetrator in the backfield. If he isn’t there, Haley and Griffin are going to have a difficult time on that line together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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