SPare Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 At least from the player personnel point of view. To my mind, he's had a number of successes over the past two years: 1. Picking up Daryl Gardner off the scrap heap 2. The Jetskins hirings. Remember, this time last year tending a RFA was effectively enough to keep him from going to another team. 3. The draft hasn't been bad, with a few real contributors coming out of mid-late rounds (Rock, Dockery, Bauman, Royal) 4. Hasn't bungled the first rounders (Samuels, Arrington, Ramsey). How quickly people forget the era when we couldn't get a first rounder to stick, no matter when they were drafted. 5. The cap is in decent shape for the foreseeable future. To be sure, he's made some mistakes, most noticeably the D Line, and the apparent lack of communication with the coaching staff. And, he's too close to the owner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Personally I would rather have Vinny as the GM then Danny (Art won't believe that) but we know that will never happen. I wish that would so Vinny would be held more accountable, right now he has a free ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 I think you have to judge Cerrato really on the basis of 2002 and 2003 only. And based on these two years he has done a decent job. Now two more years from now we may look back at 2002 and say that this draft wasn't that good after all. But this is all we can judge him on at this moment, so only time will tell. Art did a good thread on Vinny recently, which goes into more detail, but lets face it. Vinny is acting as our GM whether the FO calls him by that title or not, or whether we like it not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankRizzo Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 I agree. Now if we could just find a head coach worth a damn we'll be ok. Snyder/Ceratto aren't my ideal front office, but you can't argue with what they've done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyKilmer Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Gm Cerratto sounds ok here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Vinny (the Devil) Cerrato really is just a yes man to Danny. Sure he's made some big moves as previosuly mentioned, but he'll never say no to Dannyboy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Originally posted by inmate running the asylum Art did a good thread on Vinny recently, which goes into more detail, but lets face it. Vinny is acting as our GM whether the FO calls him by that title or not, or whether we like it not. Art is in love with vinny. According to Wilbon and Kornheiser who actually talk to Danny, Danny is the GM and he doesn't want to bring someone in because he thinks he is doing a good job :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 But Danny will say no to him. Check out our second round draft pick last year. Isn't the problem that the Danny does say no to Vinny and not that Vinny doesn't say no to Snyder? What on earth would make you think any GM gets to say no to the owner? The owner shouldn't be involved often, but lets not kid ourselves on where the ultimate power resides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Originally posted by TankRizzo I agree. Now if we could just find a head coach worth a damn we'll be ok. Snyder/Ceratto aren't my ideal front office, but you can't argue with what they've done. So out of all their drafts when you have 1 maybe starter that is not a first round pick you call that a good job?? My bad forgot about Iffy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TankRizzo Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Originally posted by jbooma So out of all their drafts when you have 1 maybe starter that is not a first round pick you call that a good job?? When we need to fill holes, he goes out and fills them with the best available. We are not in any sort of cap trouble in the forseeable future. And frankly, we havn't had enough drafts to really judge them by, and they've hit on just about every first rounder they have had. I don't agree 100% with everything they've done or perhaps areas they may have neglected but you can't argue with what they've done. Spurrier wanted a fast team, he went out and got the speed Spurrier wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Danny/Vinny is not ideal, but it works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 DING GB. All these guys screaming about Cerrato not saying no to Snyder. What are they thinking. The owner ultimately has final say on everything. Period. He owns the franchise. He's going to have input. If he feels strongly, you ARE going to listen to what he says even if you have contractual say in certain areas. JKC has final say here. Seemed to be ok. New England doesn't have a GM. Yet JB wants us to be made in their image. The best thing we have going for us is that Snyder likes and trusts Cerrato and not a single person on this board has EVER seen or heard a conversation the two of them have had in private. NONE of us knows how developed that working relationship and friendship is. Maybe it's correct to say he doesn't say no. Maybe it's wildly incorrect. Certainly this offseason we didn't go after the sexy name. Other than Randy Thomas, no one we went after was a "name" yet. Coles was a lesser name to Price. Morton was a kick returner. Noble and Upshaw and Haley and Bowen and even Canidate were not name players. I thought Snyder liked shiny things? Who held him back from it when we know Mendes was sipping tea and flirting with cheerleaders? Here's a team that's undergone so much change that we have a lack of middle round players to fall back on of our own, so we use our picks to get those players in one offseason to limit the risk and increase the depth and quality with restricted free agents. Almost to a man this board was pleased with the direction this team was taking in April and May of last year. Now we've struggled and you've decided to pretend it sucked? Shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Originally posted by Art New England doesn't have a GM. Yet JB wants us to be made in their image. I just don't want our owner playing GM thats all. Give Vinny all of the power so he can be held accountable in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNorth Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Originally posted by jbooma Art is in love with vinny. According to Wilbon and Kornheiser who actually talk to Danny, Danny is the GM and he doesn't want to bring someone in because he thinks he is doing a good job :doh: Danny has done a decent job of late IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidPennSkin Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 One thing no one has mentioned is that until last June, Joe Mendes was VP of Football Operations. He had a lot of input into the FO moves before he was fired in June. Cerrato has never been responsible for the whole ball of wax except for the last 6 months. Since June he was responsible for canning Wuerffel and Watson and bringing in several players with limited talent and lots of off-field baggage. Not a good record so far. We don't know if he can do the job on his own or not. I guess we'll find out in the next few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 The best owners in league are the ones that hire good football people for the FO and get the hell out of the way. I have to admit though that there's probably nobody better than Danny at getting the person once he's decided he wants them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Originally posted by MidPennSkin One thing no one has mentioned is that until last June, Joe Mendes was VP of Football Operations. He had a lot of input into the FO moves before he was fired in June. Cerrato has never been responsible for the whole ball of wax except for the last 6 months. Since June he was responsible for canning Wuerffel and Watson and bringing in several players with limited talent and lots of off-field baggage. Not a good record so far. We don't know if he can do the job on his own or not. I guess we'll find out in the next few months. MPS, We know Mendes was out early last offseason and carried no influence at all with the offseason plan and direction. That was Cerrato's brainchild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Originally posted by endzone_dave The best owners in league are the ones that hire good football people for the FO and get the hell out of the way. I have to admit though that there's probably nobody better than Danny at getting the person once he's decided he wants them. Then you decide what you want, ED. You want a situation where Danny's skills are left idle, or you want one where they are playing a part in HELPING improve us. Right now there's no one who has a better working relationship with football agents than Snyder. He's the best deal closer in the business. You don't want that aspect of him kept out of things. And that appears to be what his function is. He ALSO settles tiebreakers where the decision makers can't come to agreement. Again, how is that a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraw238 Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 I have little problem with the talent that Vinny/Synder has brought into the fold. The problem with having long term success for this team is the dsyfunctional nature in which the organization is run and the way Synder treats people. By all accounts, working for the Redskins is miserable. Its not always about the talent that is on the field. For whatever reason, every coach we have had under Synder has been miserable and ultimately left. Mendes was miserable and left twice. At some point Vinny and Danny should just coach the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 So, McGraw, you're saying that it was so miserable to work for the Redskins and Dan Snyder that Mendes RETURNED to the team? Ok. Good point. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraw238 Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 And Mendes LEFT again. It was well documented that Mendes and Cerrato could not get along. Just like Spurrier and Cerrato did not get along. Just like Norv and Cerrato did not get along. Just like Marty and Cerrato did not get along, no wait, Marty canned Cerrato. I think Cerrato brings in decent talent overall. It just seems that he is always trying to keep in Synder's good graces at the expense of the coach. I think Cerrato being named GM will be an improvement. If they let him hire the coach, then hopefully everyone will be on the same page. But if it doesn't work out, there may be some blame thrown Vinny's way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endzone_dave Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Art, I think an ideal situation would be an experienced football person makes the decisions as to what players and coaches are needed. Danny would then go out and land them. The football guy does what he does best, Danny does what he does best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Originally posted by mcgraw238 I think Cerrato being named GM will be an improvement. If they let him hire the coach, then hopefully everyone will be on the same page. But if it doesn't work out, there may be some blame thrown Vinny's way. Bingo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Anyone that wants the danny/vinnie show, at least as far as player aqquisition is concerned, to continue is on crack Originally posted by Art You want a situation where Danny's skills are left idle, or you want one where they are playing a part in HELPING improve us. Right now there's no one who has a better working relationship with football agents than Snyder. He's the best deal closer in the business. You don't want that aspect of him kept out of things. And that appears to be what his function is. He ALSO settles tiebreakers where the decision makers can't come to agreement. Again, how is that a bad thing? This part is what he SHOULD be doing. Not running the draft. JKC has final say here. Seemed to be ok. New England doesn't have a GM. Yet JB wants us to be made in their image. The best thing we have going for us is that Snyder likes and trusts Cerrato and not a single person on this board has EVER seen or heard a conversation the two of them have had in private. The thing about Mr Cooke is he had a clue about the world of sports before he bought a majority stake and ultimately the team. He ran the Lakers and I believe he got Wilt the Stilt, among others during their champion run in the 60's. Our current owner came in with no clue. ANd honestly,like a lot of people here b!tched about Spurrier, he doesn't seem to be on the fast learning curve here, which sucks for the Skins. Here's a team that's undergone so much change that we have a lack of middle round players to fall back on of our own, so we use our picks to get those players in one offseason to limit the risk and increase the depth and quality with restricted free agents. And why is it that we lack any players from the middle rounds to step up when starters go out? Say, "Because we don't have anyone that can spot talent past the second round". Why is that? One reason is the fact that danny fired all of the scouts that had a clue when he took over. Almost to a man this board was pleased with the direction this team was taking in April and May of last year. Now we've struggled and you've decided to pretend it sucked? Shame. Sorry, but 5-11 sucks. However, I won't lay all of that on danny. I liked the moves that were made during the off season as much as anyone else. Injuries took their toll. But I will lay Spurrier on danny, because like an Indian (opps, can't say Indian anymore) like a peaceful indigineous person who thrived until the evil Europeans came, Spurrier was the sexy thing, the shiny thing to trade all of Manhatten to get. Granted, other people were after him as well, but we were the ones that ended up with him, in part because we payed more than anyone else in their right mind would. As other have said, there has been only one constant since danny has arrived, nad that has been danny. The win loss record speaks louder than I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 McGraw, So, again, let me see if I have this straight. A guy who left in the first place because of how miserable it is to work for Snyder actually RETURNED. Do you get what I'm saying? Maybe it's not so miserable afterall. Honest. It doesn't matter what title Cerrato has. His job function is pretty much exactly what you describe. Was last year. Seems to be so this year. Not sure why the title seems to be the Holy Grail. We just HAVE to have a GM no matter that we do and he's just not called it? Is that it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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