Art Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I'll need input from Tom on this, but Cornelius Griffin is a free agent. I think he'd be an excellent guy to pick up for us. He's been a solid, though not great tackle for the Giants. He's a good athlete though and has served as the spy on QBs, so, he's good in space and can play the screen better than we've got now. A guy like Griffin combined with a guy like Darren Howard can probably be had for LESS money than a single guy like Kearse. Combine these two with a draft pick worthy of being taken where we're picking and the defensive line suddenly looks pretty damn good entering the next several seasons . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeletor The Invincible Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I agree. I've always been impressed with the NY Giants defensive line. Griffin could really improve ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldskool Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 according to this thread http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44847 he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hauss Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I would rather pursue Howard and Griffin than go after Kearse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redblazer00 Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Griffen does his job very well in Ny. Look at the number of sacks are forced by him playing his role well. He is one of them Blue Chip guys that I think could help us out greatly. He will not get a ton of sacks but plays the run well and forces the quarterback to the sides where sacks are caused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chopper Dave Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I'm assuming you meant blue-collar, not blue-chip. But yeah, sure, hell, I'm pushing 250, put me in there for God's sake. Anyone is better than who we've got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inmate running the asylum Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Originally posted by Art I'll need input from Tom on this, but Cornelius Griffin is a free agent. I think he'd be an excellent guy to pick up for us. He's been a solid, though not great tackle for the Giants. He's a good athlete though and has served as the spy on QBs, so, he's good in space and can play the screen better than we've got now. Why do you need Tom, when you got Bulldog and I? :laugh: Although I rarely disagree with you Art, I do on this personnel move. First off Griffin is seriously considering retirement he says. Not a good move, when a player is undecided whether he wants to play or not. It sounds like his heart is not in it any more. Secondly, he's looking at a serious drug charge in the spring, which at the very least may get him suspended. But most importantly, what kind of message is this going to send to the other members of the team on discipline, after we just let Darrell Russell walk, and then turn around and sign a druggie. Griffin was a good player several years ago but his play has slipped. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187552 A guy like Griffin combined with a guy like Darren Howard can probably be had for LESS money than a single guy like Kearse. Combine these two with a draft pick worthy of being taken where we're picking and the defensive line suddenly looks pretty damn good entering the next several seasons . As for Darren Howard, he is a good player but I cant see the Saints letting him walk and getting nothing in return, so I'm sure they will at least transition tag him. Plus other teams are bound to bid on his services, which is going to drive his price up. http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/187563 Which means he will not really be a Saint UFA and is going to cost us more than an UFA. Besides he hasn't been that great of a player since his rookie season, and is not the one elite pass rusher we really need. Howver, I wouldn't mind signing him if we could also sign Kearse. I'm greedy. I think we have to find at least 3 new starters on the DL, and maybe 4 and scrap the whole friggin line. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riggins44 Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I don't see this happening. He doesn't have a record or any baggage. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlobberKnockinFootball Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Originally posted by redblazer00 Griffen does his job very well in Ny. Look at the number of sacks are forced by him playing his role well. He is one of them Blue Chip guys that I think could help us out greatly. He will not get a ton of sacks but plays the run well and forces the quarterback to the sides where sacks are caused. But don't we already have a guy like this in Noble? Someone who is blue collar guy who stops the run well and plays his assignments well? We seem to forget about him because he was out all of this year. That's why I'm kind of questioning why we would need someone, talent wise is pretty much the same as we already have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktball74 Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I just PRAY that we don't pursue Sapp! I will not be happy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejharrisjr Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Art: Two questions: Can Griffin stuff the run? Can he rush the passer? If he can't do either, then he will do us NO GOOD....We need to look to the draft for DT talent. There are plenty to be had this year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlobberKnockinFootball Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I say you get Gardener back in here. Along with Sapp and Wistrom. Then draft a LE, If there is a player that is a no brainer. If not take Sean Taylor. Keep Dalton, Noble and Haley for a rotation. I'm not as down on Sapp as most people. I like Sapp because of his energy for the game. Yea, he has done some questionable things. But the guy plays a 100% every game. I don't think we can say that about most of our players we have on defense now. And I tell you what. That body slam on Russell the other night would be retaliated against. I'll put my money on that. We won't have people stepping on us like that ever again. I say you go after him. But if he's trying to break the bank. Then we can turn our direction elsewhere. I don't mind giving him good money because he's going to bring it every Sunday. But he's not going to be the highest paid on my team. That's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70Chip Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Originally posted by Art A guy like Griffin combined with a guy like Darren Howard can probably be had for LESS money than a single guy like Kearse. Does a rational argument like this have even the slightest hope of penetrating the minds of Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB81 Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Snyder has probably never heard of Griffin. He's gonna need a bigger name than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sisko Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Wistrom would probably be my first choice. However, Howard wouldn't be a bad choice either. I'd have felt a lot better about our prospects for improving the DL had we kept Russell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Hog Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I think Darryl Gardner should be the first DT we pursue in free agency. Arguably the MVP of our team a season ago, and he joined us almost midway through the season. That's saying alot. He seemed to have a great attitude when he was here. I think the problems he had in Denver had as much to do with Mike Shannahan as they did with his attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Maybe Winstrom and Howard and moving Wynn inside to DT. Kearse and his foot problems worry me. Sapp, he's looking for retirement income....let him get it somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bccdc Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I agree wholeheartedly with EJ. When is the last time we have had a stud DL prospect who can develop within our system? (whatever that may be next season) We have NO young talent at DE (LaDarius Jackson does not count). We have a whole stable of mediocre talent on the line including Zellner, Upshaw (who I loathe and think is a complete idiot/headcase), Chase, Dalton - who I thought played well this season...the list goes on. Bernard Holsey is a serviceable backup. I doubt Noble will make it back from his injury, and Russell is a cancer - so good riddance. My point here is that there is a dearth of talent - our DL is the definition of mediocre backups. The skins FO has ignored this glaring weakness for years and it MUST be addressed. And it can not be addressed solely through FA. I am wary of Howard b/c of his history of injuries. Sapp, minus his stints at TE this year, was soft, can't stop the run, generated very little pass rush and was a non-factor. I will be crushed if we waste money on him. Wistrom is a workhorse with a good motor - but not a star. The skins have a number of glaring weaknesses, but the DL is number 1 in my book. Either a pass- rushing DE or run stopping DT in the 1st! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bccdc Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Hauss - I am not sure that Darren Howard is a FA. Where are you getting this from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 29, 2003 Author Share Posted December 29, 2003 Inmate, I don't think Griffin has hinted at retirement unless I've just lost my mind. He's a young guy, four years in the league. Hamilton has said he might retire. Different guy. Griffin is the young guy from Alabama who the Giants routinely have used as a spy on mobile QBs. This is a unique ability for a defensive tackle. I think he's NEITHER a dominating run stopper nor a great pass rusher, but he's athletic and he can threaten QBs with his athleticism and he is a very good guy against screen plays. He's not elite. He's probably a poor man's Warren Sapp like Howard is a poor man's Kearse. I disagree with you that the Saints will be pressed to do much with Howard. The going rate for a Top 5 defensive end is HUGE on average. He's not that and won't be franchised. He might be given the lesser transistion tag, but even that seems out of line for a player who's probably not a Top 10 end. He's more of a 10-20 guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB81 Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Inmate has Griffin and Keith Hamilton confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I don't want Gardner back, it' like taking a cheating wife back because she's a good lay. Yeah, he was good while he was here, but not worth the headache. Remember, Marvin Lewis was also here, and I bet if he was here this year even with the DL we had, we wouldn't be as bad as we are on defense because he knows how to utilize his linebackers. I'd like to shore up the tackle position, but really, we must must MUST address the ends. we have zero speed coming off the defensive end position ANYwhere on the roster. I think it's the single most glaring area of need on the team. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB81 Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 I'd prefer getting someone like Robaire Smith (who I believe can play both tackle and end), or Paul Grasmanis. Relatively cheap, hard working, and they get the job done. Unfortunately, I feel pretty confident we will only go after the big name guys--Kearse, Sapp and maybe Widstrom (who I wouldn't mind). I hope Vinny and Danny prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IowaSkinsFan Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Griffin and Howard is the best strategy I have heard yet. Quantity and Quality. BTW, who is being ranked as the best pass rusher in this draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB81 Posted December 29, 2003 Share Posted December 29, 2003 Probably the guy from USC, Keneche Udeze...if he comes out. Otherwise, I guess it's Will Smith from Ohio St. Both will likely go in the first 15-20 picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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