Baker, RJF vs. McReplacements- D Line discussion in here.

[Morneblade]

9 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Time will tell, personally I find it very telling that they didn't even attempt to keep him.  Maybe attitude played a part or something but still letting your supposedly best lineman walk without even trying is very suspect to me.

 

 

I agree, think it surprised quite a few of us.

[Est.1974]

4 hours ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Since supposedly our line coached wanted these two guys, I am all for it.  Really its not like we lost two DLinemen that has us in the top 10 in stopping the run or inside pressure.  Lets not make it like we lost two fringe all pro players here guys.

Yeh they were Tomsula preferences by all accounts. I'm all for it too. Need a strong DT/NT and draft another DE/OLB .

[Skinsinparadise]

They passed on giving Bennie Logan a big contract, and even though they would love to have had Calais Campbell, they weren’t interested in his price tag. They also let Chris Baker sign with Tampa Bay and cut Ricky Jean Francois.

Redskins president Bruce Allen said it was input from defensive line coach Jim Tomsula and new coordinator Greg Manusky that led them to McClain and McGee. Both are expected to start this season.

"We said to [the coaches], 'Describe what you’re looking at, what you want to see, what are the characteristic you’re looking for,'" Allen said. "It allowed us to clearly identify players that the personnel department and the coaches felt would help us."

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/30684/bruce-allen-says-redskins-leaned-on-assistants-in-free-agency

[Morneblade]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

They passed on giving Bennie Logan a big contract, and even though they would love to have had Calais Campbell, they weren’t interested in his price tag. They also let Chris Baker sign with Tampa Bay and cut Ricky Jean Francois.

Redskins president Bruce Allen said it was input from defensive line coach Jim Tomsula and new coordinator Greg Manusky that led them to McClain and McGee. Both are expected to start this season.

"We said to [the coaches], 'Describe what you’re looking at, what you want to see, what are the characteristic you’re looking for,'" Allen said. "It allowed us to clearly identify players that the personnel department and the coaches felt would help us."

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/30684/bruce-allen-says-redskins-leaned-on-assistants-in-free-agency

 

I watched the whole interview. Color me unimpressed. I think Tomsula is a good DL coach, but I don't think can turn **** into caviar.

 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

I watched the whole interview. Color me unimpressed. I think Tomsula is a good DL coach, but I don't think can turn **** into caviar.

 

 

Look at what Rod Marinelli did with the Cowboys. They had a bunch of no names on defense and the trash of Rob Ryan and Monte Kiffin that was ranked last in the league into a middle of the pack unit without much real talent. In fact you can say that they lost a lot of talent with guys like Hatcher and Ware but wound up putting up respectable numbers. As a mathematician I kinda hate saying this but people sit and trust "numbers" too much. 

 

I feel like we don't know what scheme we'll be running. Manusky has stressed things he thinks are important (I do wonder what fans think of him, whether they think he has any competence or if he's just another pigeon of Snyder/Cerrato/Allen). We also don't know what roles our linemen will be playing, if they will in fact play a 3-4 the majority of the time, or if they're going to be in nickel a lot again. 

 

The guys we signed and let go seem to indicate that we wanted to get younger and focus more on stopping the run. Whether that's a good philosophy or whether these guys will be better at it than Baker / RJF remains to be seen. It also remains to be seen how our rookies from last year will develop. Who will we draft? who else will we bring in (pre-draft cuts, post draft cuts, June 1st, in Training Camp cuts, practice squad, guys we signed in January after the season, etc). 

 

Its so weird in the FA thread that people are getting "insulted" and called a homer for not seeing things as negative as the media portrays it. I'm very happy we didn't overspend in FA (as much as I wanted Logan or Poe). Hopefully these guys can play better than Baker and RJF did, but I'm not going to act like our Line was anything respectable last year. So I don't even mind change for the sake of change if it means we're not going to just throw the same feces out there calling it ice cream. 

 

Its whatever - this stuff is above my pay grade. I don't get paid enough to stress and complain about this stuff. I'll just continue to root for my team and hope that the moves work out 

[Morneblade]

37 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Look at what Rod Marinelli did with the Cowboys. They had a bunch of no names on defense and the trash of Rob Ryan and Monte Kiffin that was ranked last in the league into a middle of the pack unit without much real talent. In fact you can say that they lost a lot of talent with guys like Hatcher and Ware but wound up putting up respectable numbers. As a mathematician I kinda hate saying this but people sit and trust "numbers" too much. 

 

I feel like we don't know what scheme we'll be running. Manusky has stressed things he thinks are important (I do wonder what fans think of him, whether they think he has any competence or if he's just another pigeon of Snyder/Cerrato/Allen). We also don't know what roles our linemen will be playing, if they will in fact play a 3-4 the majority of the time, or if they're going to be in nickel a lot again. 

 

From what he has said, it's going to be a 1 gap attacking defense. Outside of that, we don't know. He's run the 4-3 in the past, but has said he prefers the 3-4. I think he's a pretty good DC. He's had moderate success in places where he did not have a lot of talent. I liked the hire personally. However I'd like to give him more to work with.

 

37 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

The guys we signed and let go seem to indicate that we wanted to get younger and focus more on stopping the run. Whether that's a good philosophy or whether these guys will be better at it than Baker / RJF remains to be seen. It also remains to be seen how our rookies from last year will develop. Who will we draft? who else will we bring in (pre-draft cuts, post draft cuts, June 1st, in Training Camp cuts, practice squad, guys we signed in January after the season, etc). 

 

Maybe about the run part, but maybe not. McClain is more of a penetrating DE/DT and McGee is more of a guy that stacks and sheds. Maybe he wants McGee as the run stuffer and McClain as the disruptive DE (watched a instructional video by Wade Philips today on the 3-4, that's what he does). Even with that, the concern with durability is pretty high. As far as the Draft, some good looking 3-4 DE's there, but not much for NT, which has me worried we'll reach for one. And I certainly do not want to rely on cuts after the draft to find a starter.

 

37 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Its so weird in the FA thread that people are getting "insulted" and called a homer for not seeing things as negative as the media portrays it. I'm very happy we didn't overspend in FA (as much as I wanted Logan or Poe). Hopefully these guys can play better than Baker and RJF did, but I'm not going to act like our Line was anything respectable last year. So I don't even mind change for the sake of change if it means we're not going to just throw the same feces out there calling it ice cream. 

 

It's kinda funny about the whole "homer" thing, and I think I know the posts you're referring to (but I could be wrong). No one was called a "homer" until the poster referred to himself as a "homer".

 

Change for the sake of change doesn't really solve anything though. There is nothing in the history of these 2 guy we picked up that say they're better, or as consistent, or be available for 16 games. I feel like we threw out the baby with the bath water. We did get younger though, I hope that actually does something.

 

37 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Its whatever - this stuff is above my pay grade. I don't get paid enough to stress and complain about this stuff. I'll just continue to root for my team and hope that the moves work out 

 

ROFL! Actually a good way to look at it. But, we're fans. Short for fanatics. And even though it's above our pay grade, and we're working for free, we'll still come in here and go back and forth about it. 'Cus we're fans. We love this team.

[XxSpearheadxX]

I really think Matt Ioannidis is going to end up being a very solid 2 gap NT. 

[maskedsuperstar]

On 3/27/2017 at 9:21 AM, Bang said:

Definitely "who knows".

New coaches SHOULD mean improvement, because there isn't much worse to be. How baker, RJF, etc would play with the new coaches is anyone's guess.

But, from what we saw.. i don't know why anyone would worry over them being gone.

It's a chicken / egg argument,, which is at fault, the defensive coaches failing, or the defensive linemen not keeping blocks off of linebackers, not winning the point of attack, not getting penetration? The only way to know for sure is to let last year's coaches coach this year's players, but, like herpes, no one wants that.

RJF was spotty at best. Not at all solid, given the consistent inability of this defense to stop the run or generate pressure. (A couple guys do, but.. not enough.) As a rotational player, you'd think his presence coming in would stiffen the defense with fresh legs, but it didn't really matter.. teams ran when they needed to.

Baker never met a spotlight he didn't want to be in, and often would look for it before a play was over. I HATED that. Dude played half a play more than i care to think about.

How often did we see on a run play or even an inside blitz,, linebackers blocked immediately, taken out of the play, ineffective. That is on the DT, those blocks are getting to the next level and taking on the designated tacklers.. our interior line failed utterly to clog up anything, did not command doubles, and were schemed out easily by opposing offenses. The men that were supposed to fill gaps and make tackles found blocks instead pushing through the gaps.. next thing you know it's 2nd and 2.

 

So, who knows... but I know this, That coaching staff and these ineffective players.. I doubt i will miss any of them. I doubt very much i will ever say "If only we had Chris Baker or Ricky Jean Francois, that guy wouldn't have made that 14 yard run."

 

~Bang

Bang, you made good points. Fans will blame the 3-4 defense. But the problem was that the DL was pushed around, never got off blocks, and constantly attacked the wrong holes. Ricky Jean did what he wanted, made excuses and finally kicked to the curb.

Chris Baker showed up on occasion. I was never really impressed with him. He's very upset the Skins didn't offer a contract. Why would they? Just remember 4.5 yards a carry. That's your answer, Chris.

[Morneblade]

8 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

I really think Matt Ioannidis is going to end up being a very solid 2 gap NT. 

 

Why?

[XxSpearheadxX]

1 hour ago, Morneblade said:

 

Why?

Well he is extremely strong and projected as one coming out of college. He needed to bulk up more but I'm hoping he's done that. He started off much slower than I thought, but I'm hoping he works the kinks out this year and his talent can shine. And I'm a homer.

He got his stuff together by the end of the season after starting off unprepared and going to the practice squad.

 

He's up to 308 now

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

Well he is extremely strong and projected as one coming out of college. He needed to bulk up more but I'm hoping he's done that. He started off much slower than I thought, but I'm hoping he works the kinks out this year and his talent can shine. And I'm a homer.

He got his stuff together by the end of the season after starting off unprepared and going to the practice squad.

 

He's up to 308 now

 

Most 2 gap NT's are around 330+. Also, we run a 1 gap system. I also don't remember him being projected as a 2 gap NT, more like a guy that could play DE in a 3-4 and a DT in a 4-3, with maybe being able to play a  1 gap 3-4 NT if he packed on some weight. I'm not sure he has the frame to be 330. You can get away with being around 310-315 in a 1 gap system that wants you to attack a gap, not read and react. So that's plausable, but I don't see him being a 2 gap NT.