matty dread Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by OaktonSkinsFan This year? When? And compared to Champ in the same situation, what's the comparison? I think you'd be pressed to reach that conclusion. Do you seriously think that Champ is worth even a $14M SB? Do you think that he is so special and such a playmaker :laugh: that we should sacrafice rebuilding the DL to keep him? Get over it..... I'm talking about last year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by mattyk72 I'm so tired of hearing the money argument. I'm talking about performance only right now, I'm sorry but I didn't see Champ owned by Chambers tonight like some people believe. There are several players that I would call out for this loss before I would even think about mentioning Champ. When all three plays significantly affect the course of the game, then yes. And my point is that Bailey is supposed to be a shutdown CB. Shutdown CB's simply don't allow such things very much at all. Face it: Bailey is OVERRATED! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanathos19 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Oakton- Smoot was on Muhsin all game long. Champ was covering Steve Smith...not that he locked him up in the 4th quarter either. Forget the one push-off, Muhammad had almost 200 receiving yards! Come on now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by xanathos19 That's the Muhsin Muhammad that had 1 TD and a total of about 15 catches coming into last week's game. Miami simply wasn't scared of Champ, like other teams are for some reason...you can throw on any CB if you go there enough. Champ's been a little vulnerable lately, but I can't understand anyone saying that he is better than Smoot. Smoot gets more INT's because they throw his way more (except for tonight, obviously). Xan, Do me a favor, put $1,000 on the number of balls thrown toward Bailey in man coverage versus the number thrown toward Smoot. You say Smoot is thrown at more. It would be beneficial if you realized that such a statement is patently absurd and is EXACTLY the sort of thing that's going unnoticed even by Redskin fans. Not only has Bailey been thrown at more often, but, it's about four to one more often. You put some cash on it and I'll watch every game over again and count up the number for you. Bailey is thrown at in almost every game more often than Smoot. You can believe the truth, or you can deny it, but, that doesn't change what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 LOL, ok Champ stinks, Smoot rocks. Champ lost us the game all by himself, you're right, I'm wrong, I'm going to bed. late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by xanathos19 Oakton- Smoot was on Muhsin all game long. Champ was covering Steve Smith...not that he locked him up in the 4th quarter either. Forget the one push-off, Muhammad had almost 200 receiving yards! Come on now. Xan, You are expressing an almost criminal ignorance here. Again I'll ask if you even watched the Carolina game. Smoot was almost NEVER on Muhammed. If the only way you can create a scenario in which Bailey is outperforming Smoot is to make it up, you might want to stay silent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hersh Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 The fact is we have two pretty damn good corners. If we were missing one for the entire season, with the lack of pass rush, things would be a lot worse. There is no question that Champ got beat a little today, but if you take away the 80 yard TD pass (which Bowen shoulda stopped) than the pass D gave up 12 of 22 for 112 yards. That;s pretty damn good. If Ohalete doesn't make the stupidest of penalties on 3rd and 15 and if Bowen takes a better angle....Than again, if we had a good pass rush, Smoot and Bailey would be talked about as the best tandem in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanathos19 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Art- I was at the damn game...I saw it. Obviously he wasn't on Muhsin for all 200 yards, but Smoot was there for alot of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchdown Portis! Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 {Probably because Smoot outplayed Bailey last week too. Did you not watch the game? Or do you just think Smoot should cover the man he was covering AS WELL as the slot guy who was getting all the catches last week? - ART} What the hell are you talking about?!?! Did you watch last weeks game? Smmot gave up 187 yards to Muhsin while Champ gave up one play to Steve Smith, and it was good coverage, just a phenomenal catch by Smith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanathos19 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Art- I never said that Champ was outplaying Smoot. For much of the season, he hasn't been. Fred's stats are better because he gets thrown to more (aside from tonight) and can make more plays. I'm just saying that if you put their skills side-by-side, that Champ is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 Xan and Bailey, Smoot gave up exactly two catches to Muhammed. That's it. Go back and watch the game. I have. It's not a miracle here. Just watch the game. I'll send you the DVD if you'd like . Just because Muhammed had a number of catches for a number of yards doesn't mean Smoot was the defender. Almost everything was done on the inside as the slot receiver. Most against Terrell. Perhaps you guys see 31 and think it's 21. But, please don't be dumb with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchdown Portis! Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Art, I just read some more of your posts and I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Where the hell you come up with Bailey getting thrown at more than champ is beyond me. Also, i don't know how you can say that Smoot was barely on Muhammed last week. Muhsin was his man. Who else was covering him?! Did they put Smoot on the TE? You must not watch these games; you sound like an ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanathos19 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 bailey2456...THANK YOU for knowing what the hell you are talking about!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonnyJ Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Where the hell you come up with Bailey getting thrown at more than champ is beyond me Is this like heads I win, tails you lose?? :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 Xan, Again, put money on it. No, Smoot isn't thrown at more. Bailey is. By a great margin. It's not even a close contest. You guys can keep SAYING that Bailey is not thrown at as much as Smoot, but, denying the truth is not a winning method of conversation with me. As for putting skills up against each other, I don't know that I'd deny you that Bailey has better skills. I'm just saying if you put their play up side-by-side that Smoot is the better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by bailey2456 Art, I just read some more of your posts and I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Where the hell you come up with Bailey getting thrown at more than champ is beyond me. Also, i don't know how you can say that Smoot was barely on Muhammed last week. Muhsin was his man. Who else was covering him?! Did they put Smoot on the TE? You must not watch these games; you sound like an ass. bailey2456 - you are a very stupid person. You should be embarassed. Watch the f*ckin game you stupid a$$ moron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by xanathos19 bailey2456...THANK YOU for knowing what the hell you are talking about!!!!! xanathos and 2456 - blind and blinder.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by bailey2456 Art, I just read some more of your posts and I'm sorry, but you're an idiot. Where the hell you come up with Bailey getting thrown at more than champ is beyond me. Also, i don't know how you can say that Smoot was barely on Muhammed last week. Muhsin was his man. Who else was covering him?! Did they put Smoot on the TE? You must not watch these games; you sound like an ass. Bailey, I hate to break it to you buddy, but, Smoot was on the outside receiver. Not the slot receiver. You can wish it so, it's just that you can't MAKE it so. Where I come up with the number of balls thrown at Bailey versus the number thrown at Smoot is by actually observing the games and recognizing that watching is different than listening. No doubt if you listen to announcers you'll believe Bailey is never tested. If you watch games you'll realize that's not the case. Even last year when Bailey was excellent most of the year he was actually thrown at more than people realize. This year it's not even a close deal. Bailey has been thrown at and given up receptions at a dramatically greater rate than Smoot. All you have to do is put cash money on it and we can have a game watching break down together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchdown Portis! Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 I'm an idiot half wit who at 22 still believes making gay jokes is an appropriate way to express myself when I'm outclassed in a conversation where I lack knowledge and information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. D Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 ahem, the whole reason we are in fact pissed here is the salary cap. and NO champ is not worth paying so much for that we have to neglect OTHER areas of need. He is showing us today (and all of this year) that he does not deserve all that percentege of our resources. What he is showing us this year is just another corner with a "me first" attitude ..screw 'em he is not even the best corner on THIS team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by bailey2456 [bI'm an idiot half wit who at 22 still believes making gay jokes is an appropriate way to express myself when I'm outclassed in a conversation where I lack knowledge and information. [/b] bailey2456 The Resident Moron IQ: 22 Posts: 14 (0.38 Posts Per Day) That's more accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 Bailey, my dear boy, you'll need to actually sustain your position in the conversation, or be ridiculed until you weep. Those are your choices. Responding with schoolyard taunts might be neat among your peer group, but, here, I fear, you're going highly unprepared into this conversation and it's showing. That you don't know something is in itself not a terrible problem. That you so brazenly wish to display that ignorance is a problem. Know more or say less. Or, continue to appear very dim. I have an idea what you'll pick. Now that you see how schoolyard taunting SHOULD be done, can you get back on point. How much money has your daddy given you for this semester to lose to me in a bet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OaktonSkins/BushFan Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Originally posted by Art Bailey, my dear boy, you'll need to actually sustain your position in the conversation, or be ridiculed until you weep. Those are your choices. Responding with schoolyard taunts might be neat among your peer group, but, here, I fear, you're going highly unprepared into this conversation and it's showing. That you don't know something is in itself not a terrible problem. That you so brazen wish to display that ignorance is a problem. Know more or say less. Or, continue to appear very dim. I have an idea what you'll pick. Now that you see how schoolyard taunting SHOULD be done, can you get back on point. How much money has your daddy given you for this semester to lose to me in a bet? :rotflmao: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xanathos19 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Man, whatever. This is ridiculous. Art, I'll commend you for not making dumb-a$$ posts like the last two, and for not calling people out. Point is is that the whole damn secondary has been playing like piss, and we keep losing. But Oakton, oh, maybe I'm too blind to see that...after all, I don't watch the games you know...just check out the highlights on ESPN and sh!t. I'm out...unlike you, I have a real job and need to wake up tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 Xan, See you in the morning. The problem with you in this thread is that you began by saying Smoot was on Muhammed all game last week. You admit later that, ok, he wasn't on him the whole time, but he was some. Actually, he was twice on catches. One was negative for us and the other turned out positive for us. The fact that I KNOW exactly who was on Muhammed from simply watching that game the first time and the second time makes me wonder what you were seeing in the stands. Again, I presume you saw 31 and thought it was 21. Terrell was burned by Muhammed most of the time. And knowing you can't even clearly recall last week's game makes me confident you don't really appreciate the number of balls that do go at Smoot versus Bailey. Which is why I'm EAGER to bet . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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