Om Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 We talk about Brad, we talk about Jeff. We wonder about Todd's future. We break down the relative strengths and weaknesses of each, and discuss how said attributes apply (or would apply) to their role on this team, at this time. Just for grins, then, let me ask you this: If we could trade Jeff George, today, straight up, for any other QB playing in the league ... who would it be? A young, but still unproven, guy with "potential" ... a McNabb, perhaps? Maybe a proven guy, say like Brett Favre? No, he's no spring chicken any more, but at least you know his heart, what he can do, and that given a decent supporting cast, he might even make 2 or 3 runs at a title while he's still mobile enough. How about Peyton Manning? He sure looks good out there, but how much of that is the Edge factor, the M. Harrison factor? Are the Colts' post-season failures solely the fault of a suspect defense, or is there something else? Me, I think in the end I'd opt for Favre, knowing that's he's actually wearing a ring, and thinking that the Redskins might have a team capable of contending over the next few years ... but I'd sure be tempted to roll the dice with a McNabb, even a Vick, on potential alone. I wonder just how many guys slated to start at QB on opening day this year would be considered preferrable to what we have here now. What sayeth the board? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsThug Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 I would say either McNabb or Culpepper. They are both playing pretty well now, but have so much potential its frightening. Good strength and accuracy, mobile, and developing leadership skills. Griese is good too, but the his injuries and lack of mobility (compared to the other two) place him in third for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Knowing this is a hypothetical and that you couldn't actually trade George straight up for a dream QB, I would probably go with Manning. He's the most accurate and poised. I do not yet know that McNabb is anything more than a mobile guy with some ability, like Cunningham, or if he's something special. This year will tell us a bit about him. I think teams figured Culpepper out a year ago and he struggled. We won't know about him until he shows he can adjust to the defense and show other aspects of his game. But, Manning is young and mature. He'd be my choice. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Other than Brad Johnson? Let see. Not taking salaries into account, but just who would I rather have as the Redskin QB. In no particular order: McNabb Culpepper, Favre Garcia, Brooks, Warner Manning, Bledsoe Brunell, Grbac, McNair (without the signing bonus ) Gannon, Griese There are a few maybes I didn't list. So at best that puts Jeff George at around #15 on my list. My top choice would be Manning. IMHO he has the best balance of talent, youth and maturity. Favre's my runner-up. Although he is getting older he can win a game all by himself, and he is one tough SOB. ------------------ Hail to the Redskins! [ by Henry on July 05, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted July 5, 2001 Author Share Posted July 5, 2001 Henry, my friend ... I might not agree with all of them, but I'll certainly grant you McNabb, Culpepper, Favre, Warner, Manning, Bledsoe, Brunnell, Grbac (close), McNair ... and even, if pressed, Griese. But Jeff Garcia, Aaron Brooks and Rich Gannon? Are you perhaps exaggerating just a tiny bit, to make a point, or do you really place any of those guys above Jeff George on an actual, I'd-rather-plug-them-into-the-2001-and-beyond Washington Redskins? Really, really? (Maybe you're talking Jerry Garcia, Brooks Robinson, and Amanda Gannon?) (She sat next to me in seventh grade, wore loose shirts, and used to lean forward a lot. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trevor Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Garcia is a good young qb, can scramble and make plays a lot like a young Brett Favre. He and the other young guns I would trade straight up for George, even though I think this will be Jeff's breakout year. McNabb, Culpepper and Manning would be those I'd be most interested in. [ by Trevor on July 05, 2001.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Heh heh. Perhaps I should have explianed that I feel similarly about George as I do Deion (to a lesser extend.) Last year if you had posed the question "Deion for (name your CB) ." I could have listed at least 30 guys who, while perhaps not as talented, I would MUCH rather start as our #2 CB. So while it may be iffy to trade George for some of those guys, I'd be willing to take the chance. Heck, I almost put Flutie, Couch and Trent Green on there too, but I didn't want to get laughed off the board ------------------ Hail to the Redskins! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 I gotta go with Culpepper. I think he has the potential to be the best player in the NFL. I believe he's the most physically imposing QB the NFL has ever seen. Which can't be taken likely considering the shots these players take over the course of a season. He was not great in the NFC shampionship but his line was completely dominated by the midgets. Manning or Favre would have fared no better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 I'm not looking for Superman, the John Elway who can carry my decent-but-not-great team to victory. I want a solid team with a solid QB. I could be real happy with Culpepper or McNabb (more so Culpepper) but I think I'd take Manning. And I know this wasn't the question, but if I had to roll the dice with somebody sort of on the cheap, I'd give Jake the Snake the look. That hideous Cards organization has turned that boy into the most glaring example of unrealized potential this side of Jeff George. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KMP Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Manning in a heartbeat. He's got a natural quarterback's head for the game. He studies film. Knows his playbook. Doesn't try and force the ball into tight situations. Keeps his head on a swivel. Handles pressure situations well. Heaven help the rest of the AFC if the Colts ever get a respectable defense. Like his father before him, Peyton may put up Hall of Fame numbers but never win a championship. ------------------ <IMG SRC="http://www.joegibbsracing.com/joe_gibbs/joegibbs_images/driver_prof_joe.jpg" border=0><IMG SRC="http://www.joegibbsracing.com/current_season/jgr_wc_18/jgr_wc_18_images/car/bobby_car_race.gif" border=0><IMG SRC="http://www.joegibbsracing.com/current_season/jgr_wc_20/jgr_wc_20_images/car/drive_pontiac_tony.gif" border=0> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 yeah, but unlike Archie, Peyton is playing ball in the era of free agency and can move if the Colts are not competitive. The Colts need to hire a coach that knows how to simultaneously manage talents like James and Manning and at the same time develop some toughness on the other side of the ball. The Colts are a soft team and don't fight into the fourth quarter if you beat at them long enough. But Manning on the Redskins sounds good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennesseeCarl Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Within the space of a heartbeat I would take Culpepper (sob...the guy I desparately wanted us to draft) or Manning (with maniacal laughter at that). In a slightly longer period, I'd take Farve (I believe he's the best in the game right now, but he's a bit banged up). Also Kurt Warner. I like both Garcia and Brooks, but only Garcia has really proven much at this point. Would I take him over George? Yep. I guess I'm out there alone in my skepticism over McNabb. I haven't seen it in him yet. If George implodes this year (and please don't tell me how Marty wouldn't allow it to happen), we'll regret not having been able to take Chris Weinke only 3 slots earlier than we got Sage Rosenfels. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 personally, if you are looking at ultimately getting to and winning a Super Bowl neither Chris Weinke or Sage Rosenfels factors into that equation these guys are NFL backups. Perhaps one or the other will get a shot at starting and be another Gus Frerotte type player, but we aren't talking about high skill prospects. Husak is a better shot than either, because he is a smart player and has more polish to his game in terms of running the WCO. Sage from the scouting reports throws off his back foot and lacks basic accuracy when throwing the bread and butter NFL passes. Weinke will be 29 during the season. Unless he is like Pat Haden and comes into the league older but makes an impact immediately, how much of an upside does this guy have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 The question got me to thinking. I thought that Jeff Garcia has had an outstanding couple of years for the 49ers, so for grins, I went and ranked the top QBs last year on completeion percentage, QB rating, TDs, picks, yards, and 1st downs giving points based on ranking (1st - 1 point, 2nd = 2 points, etc.) I wanted to see where he would rank. Lo and behold, the best QB based on those criteria last year was Jeff Garcia, with an 18 ranking (3rd overall in comp %, 5th in QB rating, 3rd in TDs, 3rd in picks, 2nd in total yds, and 2nd in 1st downs). He was followed by: Manning (22 points) Culpepper (26 points) Griese (32 points) Grbac (33 points) Gannon (35 points) Warner (36 points) Green (39 points) Favre (44 points) McNabb (45 points) In some ways this is an apples and oranges ranking, based on different situations, and some guys aren't with the same teams this year. But as a fantasy football player, Garcia was very obvious last year. He seems to be a great 'system' QB, and for only being in the league two years, has put up some impressive numbers (although he is the same age as Trent Green, a 7 year vet). Of course, having Garner, Owens, and Rice takes a lot of pressure off, his receivers led the league in yards after the catch, and we'll see how well he does this year without Garner (although Barlow might be a sleeper). But overall, he seems like a potentially great QB for the next few seasons. So I'd go for either Manning, Culpepper, or Garcia, with the edge to Garcia figuring that he might be the most signable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Years in the league doesn't always count as 'experience'. Trent Green sat on the bench for the first 5 years of his career, he is now entering his 8th. Brad Johnson also sat on the bench for years and was then hurt in successive seasons in Minnesota and then in Washington in 2000. When you look at starting quarterbacks, you can start with Bledsoe, Favre and recently Manning as guys that are out there EVERY Sunday playing. I would be concerned with quarterbacks like McNabb and McNair that are great athletes but expose themselves to a lot of punishment on the ground. A 260 pound qb like Culpepper as a younger choice would seem to have the better balance of athleticism and durability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsThug Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Don't forget McNabb took his team to the playoffs singlehandedly (on offense) and kicked the crap out of Tampa Bay. Not many other current NFL quarterbacks have the ability to do that. That kind of gutsy perfomance, while not statistically impressive, cannot be discounted. I just wish we didn't have to play him 2x each season for the next decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 You know, I never wanted to sign Johnson at the time, because I felt we could get Jeff George and then have drafted Champ Bailey and Dante Culpepper or Jevon Kearse. Can you imagine how the face of the team would have been changed had we not made the trade for Johnson and instead made the Kearse move? The ripples would be hard to calculate. ------------------ Doom is in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDC Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 I'd take Micheal Vick, he's going to be the Jordan of the NFL. ------------------ -------------------------------------------- "It's gonna be a long, long day, baby...Don't bring that weak s--- on this side of the line again, your hear? ... Get up, Brother, so you can go back down again". "Fred Smoot" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Art is correct in that the Brad Johnson trade was a disaster for the Redskins. Giving up way too much for an oft-injured 30 year old quarterback. #1, #2 and #3 draft choices? That's three potential starters. Now I have seen guys traded before like Favre and Brunell that had less experience and teams gave up high picks, but those players were HEALTHY and much YOUNGER. The Johnson move was a result of the panic of losing Trent Green when the Cooke trustees refused to ratify his new contract. Norv panicked about the qb situation and Casserly was forced to make a move. The Skins were desperate and the Vikings already saw in 1996 and 1997 that Johnson just couldn't stay healthy for long stretches. The other odd thing about Johnson was, he was a NC boy and said he grew up a Redskins fan. But he never looked happy here even before the Jeff George situation developed or Norv was in dire straits. From that first press conference as a Redskin, Johnson looked like he really didn't want to be here. He said all the right things and was polite enough (unlike George has been at stops), but he appeared shellshocked to be leaving his little nest in Minneapolis. I like the position we are in with Jeff George for 2001. He got lukewarm interest in free agency in 2000 at age 31 and I think finally realizes that Marty and the Skins are the final shot at starting in the NFL. At 33 next offseason and with his baggage if things don't work out, where is he going? Certainly not to make the kind of money he is seeing here. So, its a win-win situation. We get much better quarterbacking than most people think we will and George gets to become part of a team where his tenure could extend beyond 2001 if the team is successful. Don't think for a minute that if George follows the playbook (gets along with Raye and Marty) and throws for 3,000 yards and say 20 td's with a low interception ratio, he WILL be back in 2002, regardless of how much promise people think Husak has. Teams want to win. And Marty is no different than anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Here's a scouting report on Manning---with few surprises: http://profootballweekly.com/content/features/features_set.asp?main=spin_070501.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 I'm going to have to stay put, taking George over the rest of the QB's in this thread. First, when he's on...he can throw a football to any mark on the field. In the right offense, with the right coach, George may just put up career numbers and be the highest rated passer in the league. Also..., I think he's just keeping the seat warm for our potential starter in Husak. Quite Frankly, We're starting Husak next year unless George takes us deep into the playoffs. I'm beginning to warm to the prospect of having a highly intelligent, game plan oriented, competitor like Husak running the offense next year. Especially since the offense will rely heavily on a heavy dose of S.D. and an occasional 7yd slant pattern. A heady, quick reading, poised Husak will be just fine in this offense. Plus...I'd like to think we grew one of our own, like we did with Rypien in 91, than go out there and hire a gun slinger. Something can be said about drafting a kid with obvious smarts, good talent, and a competitor and molding him into an upper echelon passer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 my prediction is if George leads the Skins to 10 wins he comes back as the undisputed starter regardless of what the coaches think of Husak as potential. I say this because I know Husak's greatest strength is his smarts and his ability to make good decisions with the ball. But he does not have eye-popping physical skills and that is what usually gets you onto the field sooner rather than later. At his age, Jeff George may not be the quarterback here for the next 5 years, but he may be here 2 or 3 more years depending on the success of the team. Marty has never liked starting rookie quarterbacks or guys who have never played. He took Grbac, but Elvis had gotten in to play 6 or 7 games for SF over the last two years he was there, including a win AT DALLAS in an important game for the 49ers. Unfortunately, because no film like that of Todd exists, he is all future and no present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
20/20 Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 You are right Bulldog about the lack of eye-popping skills as it relates to Husak. And you are correct that it gets you on the field sooner rather than later when you possess those skills. But what ARE the eye-popping qualities of Manning? Culpepper is Huge! George and Favre have cannons! McNabb this year demonstrated escapability? But what other QB's most mentioned in this thread have physical skills that make you say WOW before they even played a game! In Husak's defense and assuming the validity taht "eye-popping" impressions are important, I remember him making an impression on Marty during the first mini-camp right after the draft when Marty said something to the effect that he was the most impressive player in camp. I also remember a statement not too long ago by that old poster "Skins2001" about how surprised he was by the arm strength Husak showed last year when he arrived in camp as a rookie and threw 20-yd outs with zip on the ball. I do think that Husak is intriguing for many of the same reasons cited previously in this thread - intelligent, well suited offense for his talents, a player developed within the system rather than a hired gun, etc. But I also like him because last year he was the youngest player on the team, and may be that again this year. He is younger than Sage and consequently I think has a huge upside - he is still growing and maturing. He lacks experience in the NFL, but being coached by Norv and Marty and playing behind Brad and Jeff has to be about as a good a situation as a young QB can expect to learn and grow. ------------------ 20/20 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 quite simply, Manning who is taller and throws a better deep ball than Husak, played with those leadership intangibles and technical skills you see now for a number of years at a high profile college program. that is what punched his ticket to the NFL. Husak quite frankly is little known to me. I don't follow Pac Division football outside of the top stars that usually pop out of USC or UCLA or the Arizonas. As a #6, you don't get many looks and the ones you do get you have to be impressive. Just ask Trent Green. He couldn't even get on the field in stints at San Diego and early on with the Redskins despite the fact that Gus Frerotte was clearly not the qb of the future by 1998. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted July 5, 2001 Share Posted July 5, 2001 Manning works his a$$ off to get better in the offseason. I would have no problem starting a franchise with Manning as the QB. I too was upset about giving so much or BJohnson when we could have signed JGeorge without compensation and went after either culppper or the Kearse ------------------ Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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