So who really is the best young qb in the NFL? great read.. statisical analysis of the up and coming 7 young qb's

[Thekyle1591]

You're insane if you think Luck is better than Cam Newton....

Hes the biggest luck ****rider I've ever seen in my life. He even started the Andrew Luck appreciation thread LOL

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

It doesn't matter though. You can't base your opinion on one player being better than another, based off stats alone.

We just proved this to Kyle in a baseball thread a few days ago.

He tried using stats to say Phil Hughes is the 6th best player in baseball. He may not even be top 20.

He tried saying Alex Gordon was better than Miguel Cabrera. LOL No explanation needed there.

Then, based off the fact that our beloved Jason Heyward had the 2nd highest WAR in the NL, he tried telling me that meant Heyward was the 2nd best player in the NL. We both know that is not the case.

I have 26 coaches, GMs, and execs in the NFL that rated Luck the 5th best QB overall, to back me up. You have your nerdy stats, that EVERYONE but you seems to know, doesn't tell the whole story.

Tannehill=Luck? ROFL

I don't agree with their overall rankings one bit.  They had him listed as the 5th best QB overall on the stats they based that off of.  Ahead of Tom Brady and Rodgers, which is insane if you ask me.  It's not even an Andrew Luck argument anymore, which I think all of the young QBs (Kap, Cam, Luck, Dalton, Wilson) are all better than Tannehill.  

 

I personally think RGIII is ahead of too, but again will refrain from including him into the conversation as he was rushed back from injury and had a horrible season last year.

 

While it's a nice website that provides some unique stats, I don't think I can honestly take any overall rankings that place Tannehill ahead of Brady and Rodgers, seriously.  That's my personal opinion though.  

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Not to mention that Tannehill couldn't lead the team to victories the final two games of the season against two horrible teams (Jets and Bills).  The playoffs were theirs to take if he gets the job done, and he laid a goose egg, producing 7 points in the final two games.  

 

The Bills 2nd string QB, Thad Lewis out performed Tannehill.  Now I know that the Bills have a solid defense and the #2 running game overall last year, so I will give credit where credit is due.  But it's not like you had to worry about Thad Lewis if you were a defensive coordinator.  The Bills team is basically one dimensional.  

 

So while stats are great, and I do use/reference them, I don't see Tannehill as an elite QB at all based on the entire package (stats, personal eyeball test - watching games, expert opinions, etc.)

[darrelgreenie]

Who said Tannehill is elite?

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Who said Tannehill is elite?

If the rankings you posted have him #5 overall, that would be considered "elite" if you asked me.  Not saying that you said that, so chill man.  I'm not here to argue with you.

 

If you think Tannehill is better than Luck, Rodgers, Brady, etc. that's fine man.  I don't agree with those rankings and my honest opinion is there are plenty of QBs ranked lower than him that are elite QBs so it has me wondering just how creditable the site is or the author of that particular analysis.  

 

You and Bubble can argue Tannehill/Luck till you're blue in the face if you want to, he doesn't need my help, he can hold his own, trust me.  This is about my opinion on Tannehill overall and where he ranks, Luck just happens to be on that list I would put ahead of him.  Nothing more, nothing less.  

 

Again, I think he is a project in the works.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Hes the biggest luck ****rider I've ever seen in my life. He even started the Andrew Luck appreciation thread LOL

Yeah, but we know that thread was made as a mockery of the Cam thread where everyone was man crushing on Cam.  Lighten up fellas

[Bubble Screen]

You're insane if you think Luck is better than Cam Newton....

So you're basically saying every coach, GM, and exec in the NFL is insane.

Sigh.

Yeah, but we know that thread was made as a mockery of the Cam thread where everyone was man crushing on Cam. Lighten up fellas

Exactly.

But why let facts get in the way.

Edit: honestly, I started it, because everyone was discussing Luck in the Cam thread, and the Cam fanboys were getting their panties in a bunch.

[Bubble Screen]

Who said Tannehill is elite?

You did. Duh.

Luck is elite. So if you're saying Tannehill is equal to Luck (which is idiotic), then you're saying Tannehill is as well.

LOL I can't believe there are actually people out there that think Tannehill is on Luck's level. Hilarious.

[Taylor703]

You did. Duh.

Luck is elite. So if you're saying Tannehill is equal to Luck (which is idiotic), then you're saying Tannehill is as well.

LOL I can't believe there are actually people out there that think Tannehill is on Luck's level. Hilarious.

Luck is not elite, fanboy.

[Thekyle1591]

Is BS even a skins fan?

[darrelgreenie]

Lol I love it when people TELL ME what I'm saying, lol

I love how you guys create a strawman.

I'm starting to see how it works. It's okay to misrepresent my view or anyones view as long as you hide behind "IF"

I don't begrudge any mans opinion on anything.

If you think Tannehill will washout in 3 years that fine with me. We just disagree.

I am amused about how your evaluations of stats work. It seems if the stats don't match you perceptions then you question their credibility.

[darrelgreenie]

You did. Duh.

Luck is elite. So if you're saying Tannehill is equal to Luck (which is idiotic), then you're saying Tannehill is as well.

LOL I can't believe there are actually people out there that think Tannehill is on Luck's level. Hilarious.

this has to be one of the dumbest things you ever written and we all know you write a bunch of dumb stuff.

Are you that dumb that you think what you wrote actually passes as me saying that Tannehill is elite?

My ENTIRE point is that Luck IS NOT elite.

[Thekyle1591]

Still not as dumb as thinking Julio Tehran is a great pitcher. LOL.

[Bubble Screen]

Lol I love it when people TELL ME what I'm saying, lol

I love how you guys create a strawman.

I'm starting to see how it works. It's okay to misrepresent my view or anyones view as long as you hide behind "IF"

I don't begrudge any mans opinion on anything.

If you think Tannehill will washout in 3 years that fine with me. We just disagree.

I am amused about how your evaluations of stats work. It seems if the stats don't match you perceptions then you question their credibility.

The stats don't pass the EYE TEST!!

Seriously, do you think there is even ONE head coach or GM out there that would take Tannehill over Luck?!?!

LOL

Still not as dumb as thinking Julio Tehran is a great pitcher. LOL.

I said he was one of the top young pitchers in baseball. And he clearly is.

Do you ever get tired of storytelling?

this has to be one of the dumbest things you ever written and we all know you write a bunch of dumb stuff.

Are you that dumb that you think what you wrote actually passes as me saying that Tannehill is elite?

My ENTIRE point is that Luck IS NOT elite.

But you are the same guy that thinks Tannehill is on Luck's level. That pretty much renders any opinion you have, useless.

Is BS even a skins fan?

35+ years, son.

Luck is not elite, fanboy.

Way to use my material.

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery though.

[Thekyle1591]

Do you actually want me to go back and find where you said that about Tehran? And "the stats don't pass the eye test"? So opinion>factual evidence?

And yeah, I do think Julio is a great (see: not the best) pitcher.

Lol.

[Bacon]

Only thing in this thread that I'm disagreeing with BS about:

 

Mobile homes have higher ceilings than Andy Dalton. He is not a better quarterback than RG3. 

[Thekyle1591]

Only thing in this thread that I'm disagreeing with BS about:

Mobile homes have higher ceilings than Andy Dalton. He is not a better quarterback than RG3.

Agreeing*

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

Lol I love it when people TELL ME what I'm saying, lol

I love how you guys create a strawman.

I'm starting to see how it works. It's okay to misrepresent my view or anyones view as long as you hide behind "IF"

I don't begrudge any mans opinion on anything.

If you think Tannehill will washout in 3 years that fine with me. We just disagree.

I am amused about how your evaluations of stats work. It seems if the stats don't match you perceptions then you question their credibility.

I'm not sure who you directed this post to, but considering you felt the need to call me a troll because I posted in here yesterday and didn't agree with you, I'll assume that I was included in your audience given the reference of "If you think Tannehill will washout in 3 years" portion of your post.  If not, it's all good.

 

I'm not hiding behind ****.  I don't think Tannehill is a great QB.  I personally do not think he will be a starting QB in 3 years.  Will he be a QB2 or 3 or WR, who knows, I said he won't be a starting QB in 3 years, and I stand by that.  

 

I base my evaluation off my personal opinion of what I've seen from the guy along with multiple QB rankings.  If you don't agree, that's cool bro.  It should be cool that others don't agree with the rankings you have posted either.  I merely pointed out why I thought the rankings you shared were concerning and had me wondering about the credibility of the author of the rankings, mainly by having Tannehill ranked #5 overall ahead of known elite QBs that Tannehill isn't worthy of holding their jock straps (i.e. Tom Brady, Arron Rodgers).  

 

If you truly believe that those stats/rankings are legit and that he is better than 25 other QBs that include Super Bowl winning QBs, one in his prime, that's fine man.  Believe away, I'm not one to argue.  Getting mad and arguing with each other over who's stats are right and who's stats are wrong is really silly.  

 

Getting mad because someone disagrees with you is also silly.  It's supposed to be a healthy debate.  I'm not questioning you personally, nor am I saying you have zero football knowledge, don't watch games, etc.  I'm simply stating, we disagree on how good Tannehill is, nothing more, nothing less.

[SkinsHokieFan]

About the tanking, there were whispers of it before the Colts had even lost a couple games.  (articles dated Sep 11).  Also, people act like to tank you have to get players to do worse or something but it just requires keeping the wrong guys in for the wrong plays or having NO legitimate backup to Manning and rolling out Orlovsky (0-16 Lions fame) and Painter and K. Collins.  It's hilarious that once they secured the first pick, they finally won a(or was it another?) game.

 

 

It was very apparent the Colts tanked the 2011 season. The article you are reffering to was written by Howard Bryant

 

http://espn.go.com/espn/commentary/story/_/page/bryant-111207/the-indianapolis-colts-deserve-free-pass-criticism-their-winless-season

 

 

No excusing the embarrassing Colts

 

Based solely on the way DeSean Jackson is being portrayed as this season's symbol of wretched malingering, one might not think that he was one of the NFL's premier game-breakers just last year. He shredded defenses in short yardage, across the middle (evidenced by his near decapitation against Atlanta last year), deep downfield and -- most memorably on the final play of a game at the Meadowlands last year against the Giants -- on special teams.

 

In a game in which front offices routinely are lauded for their acumen, the Colts' management reacted to Manning's neck injury like a deer suddenly noticing a Jeep's headlights on a dark country road. Indianapolis' front office seemed paralyzed at first, then acted oddly by sending out cryptic tweets that foreshadowed the tanking of a season. The coaching staff, led by Jim Caldwell, was uninspiring. When the lockout ended, the players appeared unsuitably motivated to play football.

 

 

Yet the Colts have received a free pass and more. The conversation about their poor start morphed seamlessly into their likelihood of winning the Andrew Luck Sweepstakes as the team with the No. 1 draft pick next year -- an indication that organizations can quit but players cannot. That narrative would be unthinkable if a player -- Jackson, for example -- tanked a season in looking forward to his upcoming free agency.

 

 

The worst offenders in the Colts' long list of suspects are owner Jim Irsay and general manager Bill Polian. Manning has undergone three neck procedures in the past 15 months, and his prognosis for the 2011 season was bleak as far back as May. In a death sport like football, neck injuries, after all, are not just season-threatening but potentially career-ending. The lockout came and went, and the Colts still did not seem to have a plan to replace him. Vince Youngwas available; the Colts didn't move. Finally, in desperation, as though hearing about Manning's injury for the first time, management signed Kerry Collins in late August, two weeks before the season began. Some of the team's own veterans, starting with Wayne, scoffed.

 

 

Indianapolis didn't even make a move on Manning, who wouldn't practice a meaningful minute this season yet never was placed on injured reserve. Meanwhile, Irsay sent out cryptic tweets about the "wild ride" on which the Colts were embarking, imploring patience from fans.

 

 

[Bubble Screen]

Only thing in this thread that I'm disagreeing with BS about:

Mobile homes have higher ceilings than Andy Dalton. He is not a better quarterback than RG3.

Pretty sure I said you could flip Dalton and RG3 in my rankings.

Do you actually want me to go back and find where you said that about Tehran? And "the stats don't pass the eye test"? So opinion>factual evidence?

Lol.

That's taken out of context, kid. We were discussing the best pitchers under 25 in baseball.

Besides, this is a football thread.

And do you want me to post where you said Dwayne Allen was the 2nd best TE in the NFL in 2012?

LMAO clueless

[darrelgreenie]

This thread started off with good QB discussion then quickly devolved into a typical BS thread.

It's so hard to actually talk football anymore.

[Bubble Screen]

"Top 25 Under 25

1. Andrew Luck, QB, Indianapolis Colts

Most teams need quite a bit of help from their defenses and/or running games to post double-digit victory totals consistently. That is especially true for teams starting young quarterbacks. Luck is the primary reason the Colts have been an exception: They've posted 11-5 records without a productive running back in each of Luck's first two seasons. They've done it with a defense that has ranked 28th in expected points added (EPA) during that span, ahead of only Minnesota, Oakland, Dallas and Jacksonville."

[darrelgreenie]

I'm not sure who you directed this post to, but considering you felt the need to call me a troll because I posted in here yesterday and didn't agree with you, I'll assume that I was included in your audience given the reference of "If you think Tannehill will washout in 3 years" portion of your post.  If not, it's all good.

 

I'm not hiding behind ****.  I don't think Tannehill is a great QB.  I personally do not think he will be a starting QB in 3 years.  Will he be a QB2 or 3 or WR, who knows, I said he won't be a starting QB in 3 years, and I stand by that.  

 

I base my evaluation off my personal opinion of what I've seen from the guy along with multiple QB rankings.  If you don't agree, that's cool bro.  It should be cool that others don't agree with the rankings you have posted either.  I merely pointed out why I thought the rankings you shared were concerning and had me wondering about the credibility of the author of the rankings, mainly by having Tannehill ranked #5 overall ahead of known elite QBs that Tannehill isn't worthy of holding their jock straps (i.e. Tom Brady, Arron Rodgers).  

 

If you truly believe that those stats/rankings are legit and that he is better than 25 other QBs that include Super Bowl winning QBs, one in his prime, that's fine man.  Believe away, I'm not one to argue.  Getting mad and arguing with each other over who's stats are right and who's stats are wrong is really silly.  

 

Getting mad because someone disagrees with you is also silly.  It's supposed to be a healthy debate.  I'm not questioning you personally, nor am I saying you have zero football knowledge, don't watch games, etc.  I'm simply stating, we disagree on how good Tannehill is, nothing more, nothing less.

Lol, who is mad?

 

Maybe you should seek to first understand the stats you discredit before you attempt discredit them?

PFF graded the QBs for this season. The grades do not mean that PFF is saying that Tannehill is better then Rodgers.

It saying that this year Tannehill graded out better then Rodgers. The difference should be obvious.

 

Also, as I was saying before you shouldn't make assumptions from tidbits of information. I said you were 'hiding' behind 'ifs' because almost every time you use 'if' the statement that follows do not represent any view that I've stated, you are using 'if' statements to introduce whatever claim you want to argue against. Its tedious constantly correcting you. (its also a strawman)

 

You are ASSUMING ProFootballFocus rankings (for this year) represent my sum view. It is not my fault that your jumping to false conclusions. Instead of jumping to false conclusions in you 'if' statements, doesn't it make more sense to simply ask?

This is my second or third post in this thread.....

 

 

Ranking the QBs based on production (like the OP/author) does is different from ranking them QBs based on 'potential/upside/talent'

 

My ranking, based on yet another criteria, combines both production and potential

 

Which QB would I choose to build a team around:

 

1) Cam Newton

2) Robert Griffin

3) Russell Wilson

4) Andrew Luck

5) Kaep

6) Tannehill

7) Dalton

 

Either way that's a good crop of young QBs.

I'm going to bold certain portions of my post below...

Lol I love it when people TELL ME what I'm saying, lol

I love how you guys create a strawman.

I'm starting to see how it works. It's okay to misrepresent my view or anyones view as long as you hide behind "IF"

I don't begrudge any mans opinion on anything.

If you think Tannehill will washout in 3 years that fine with me. We just disagree.

I am amused about how your evaluations of stats work. It seems if the stats don't match you perceptions then you question their credibility.

Notice the section bolded in green? It okay with me that you think Tannehill will wash out. We just disagree.

See how your post doesn't reflect my statements in my post?

I am going to bow out of this thread because of how tedious it has become.

 

In sum. Its okay we can agree to disagree about Tannehill. You think he'll wash out or whatever, I don't. I have Tannehill on the same level as Luck. And holding that opinion, despite the perception to some in the football community, is supported by the stats. Luck and Tannehill production numbers are similar. Tannehill needs to lower his INTs but other then that there numbers are close. And I've pointed out that PFF a site that is well respected and used by some NFL teams goes even further then my opinion and graded Tannehill out ahead of Luck.

 

Its easy to dismiss ideas that don't match one's perceptions but PFF is the closet thing to objective game tape evaluation a fan has access to. So before you dismiss them because it doesn't match up to your pre-conceived notions you should take a closer look at their analysis because its in depth.

 

But either way I'm done.

We can agree to disagree.

But if we are going to have a dialogue you should get my view right so you can actually argue against my statements as opposed to your own construct.

 

-Cheers

[Bubble Screen]

"Never let me live it down? I have not backed away from it.

I affirm it, I stand by it.

Put it in your sig for all I care. DG thinks Ryan Tannehill and Luck are on the same level. YES. 100%. All Day."

^^ You also wrote this. You keep talking out both sides of your mouth.

Your rankings may be partly based on 'potential', but you are also saying he is on Luck's level NOW. Which is comical.

[Thekyle1591]

That's taken out of context, kid. We were discussing the best pitchers under 25 in baseball.

Besides, this is a football thread.

And do you want me to post where you said Dwayne Allen was the 2nd best TE in the NFL in 2012?

LMAO clueless

Its actually not we were talking about WAR and the other statistics that you thought were important. As you would say, keep making up stories.

Go ahead and post the Dwayne Allen convo, but be sure to include all the supporting data I listed as well as the Jordan Reed comp. Man BS, this just hasn't been a good week for you has it?