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***2021-2022 NBA Season Thread***

RonArtest15

By RonArtest15
in The Tailgate

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

1. Paul

2. Westbrook

3. Lillard

4. Irving

5. Curry

And if you are talking a one game scenario, I'd throw in Rose, Parker and Rondo. Only reason I don't put Rose and Rondo ahead of him is they are injured/injury-prone.

I'll give you Paul and Curry, although Wall is a much better defender than Curry.

I don't know about Westbrook any more though. He just had his third knee surgery in 9 months. Healthy, he's better. But his health is a question moving forward.

Wall is better than Irving and Lillard though. And Irving is as injury prone as anyone. Irving and Lillard are much better shooters than Wall. But Wall is better at literally every other aspect of basketball than both of them. The gap between he and them defensively is enormous. And Lillard is actually a couple months older than Wall too, so you can't say his upside is higher than Wall's either.

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G.A.C.O.L.B.

G.A.C.O.L.B.

Posted
Posted (edited)

Wall is a good player, but not nearly as good as his fans think.

you watched Wall much this year? Just curious. He might be the best player I've seen on the team in my 25 years of watching them (Gilbert was a legit MVP candidate for a small stretch but he wasn't nearly the complete player that Wall has/is becoming.) really think Wall is the 2nd best PG in the league after Paul. I mean he's almost averaging 20-10. That's pretty special

Edited by G.A.C.O.L.B.
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Destino

Destino

Posted
Posted (edited)

Wall isn't a great scorer. If you need a bucket on the final possession I think Paul, Curry, Lillard, Irving, and Westbrook are all better options. This is the first full season that Wall has played in the NBA where he actually has a decent jumpshot and some range. The thing that puts him on this list however is that he does everything at least well enough. Is he an elite scorer? No. But he's averaging 20ppg. He's not a giant guard but at 6'4 with a 6'9 wingspan is a good size and probably better than anyone else on the list. He's not the best passer but he's third in the league in assists behind Paul and Curry. Irving, Parker, Westbrook, and Lillard aren't in the top 10. He's not a stopper but he's an above average defender that makes highlight plays on defense, and probably the best defender on this list.

Wall has gone from over rated to a little under rated (unless your screen name is stevemcqueen). Before he could shoot at all and did nothing but run into defenders he was over rated. People still see him as that guy but he's gotten a hell of a lot better.

1 Paul

2 Curry

3 Healthy Westbrook

4 Wall

5 Irving

Edited by Destino
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Destino

Destino

Posted
Posted (edited)

Curry with 36 points and 12 assists tonight.

Against the Heat. In Miami. Curry is the best shooter off the dribble I've ever seen. I hope his ankles heal because he's too damn fun to watch. The NBA needs players like him.

Nets beat the Thunder in OKC. Knicks beat the Spurs in San Antonio. There is no inside the NBA on tonight. What the hell kind of Thursday is this?

Edited by Destino
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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

The only PG in the league more complete than Wall is CP3. Better shooter, better passer, and a little bit better defender at this point, though Wall's defensive ceiling is much more special than CP3's.

Wall also offer a physical presence CP3 can't, which makes a difference over the course of games.

Wall is the biggest and strongest AS caliber PG in the game. He's the best transition defender at the position in the game, by far. No other PG gets chase down blocks or successfully stops 1 on 2s and 3s like him. And he's one of the best help defenders at the position. He roves the floor like a SF defensively, not a PG, blocking shots from the weak side and trapping the ball and getting into the passing lanes. Another quality he's always excelled at is getting strip steals and starting fast breaks, his defense plays into his offense.

Destino, you can't say Wall isn't a great scorer when he's scoring with the same volume as guys like CP3. He's not a great shooter. But he's still a pretty damn good scorer. His drives are as dangerous as anyone's. And he's easily the best transition scorer of any PG in the game. He routinely scores or gets to the line on 1 on 2s and 1 on 3s. That kind of ability is absurdly special.

If there is any PG that's been consistently overrated, it's Kyrie. His scoring ability has covered up the fact that he's not a great passer or offensive facilitator and he's a god awful defender. His numbers have regressed each year. The Cavs are still so bad and losing. He actually has a negative on off differential while John's is third in the league. Things like this expose the emperor's new clothes with Kyrie. He's a one dimensional player right now who doesn't uplift his team on his own, and he won't be able to until he becomes a much better defender and all around offensive player.

And I don't really buy excuses that John's team is better, and the reason why he's better than Kyrie. Essentially this Wizards team went 5-28 when John was injured last season and then they've gone .500 the rest of the way no matter who else was hurt. John is near the top of the league in most of the "makes his teammates better/makes his offense better" type metrics you can find. Third in total points produced (demonstrating his offensive value is actually superior to almost all of the "great scorers." Third in on/off differential. First in the league in offensive plus defensive efficiency on/off differential, meaning no other player in the NBA improves their lineups on both offense and defense than Wall. Second is LeBron.

Wall turns what would be one of the worst teams in the league into a .500 team. Go through the league and I bet CP3 and maybe Curry are the only other ones who could do that.

Wall is a top five player in the East, the best PG in the East, and probably the fourth most valuable player in the conference this season behind LeBron, George, and Hibbert.

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Going Commando

Going Commando

Posted
Posted

Wall isn't a great scorer. If you need a bucket on the final possession I think Paul, Curry, Lillard, Irving, and Westbrook are all better options.

This kind of consideration gets blown out of proportion when you're talking about whether X player is better than Y player. Basically you're just restating that those guys are better long range jump shooters than Wall. A jumper or a drive and kick is all you get 9 times out of 10 in a half court set in crunch time. You're right that those guys are better long range shooters than Wall. But how valuable is that claim overall?

For example you can extend this same reasoning to LeBron and find a lot of players you'd rather have shoot the ball on the final possession than him. There are lots of better jump shooters and better FT shooters in the league. But there is absolutely nobody any team would rather have than LeBron period. Final possession shotmaking ability gets trumped easily by all around value.

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G.A.C.O.L.B.

G.A.C.O.L.B.

Posted
Posted

The only PG in the league more complete than Wall is CP3. Better shooter, better passer, and a little bit better defender at this point, though Wall's defensive ceiling is much more special than CP3's.

........

Wall is a top five player in the East, the best PG in the East, and probably the fourth most valuable player in the conference this season behind LeBron, George, and Hibbert.

I'm with you 100%.

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JoeWolf990

JoeWolf990

Posted
Posted

Seth Curry is a better player than Wall is, right now. Lets not do this to ourselves. He the 2nd best point guard in the NBA.

Wall has a higher ceiling but Seth is already one of the best shooters to ever play in the NBA.

What I will say about this convo is that neither the Wizards or Warriors will win a title with Wall or Curry as the goto guy. Unless your point guard is 6'6" and above with athleticism, its just not happening.

you watched Wall much this year? Just curious. He might be the best player I've seen on the team in my 25 years of watching them (Gilbert was a legit MVP candidate for a small stretch but he wasn't nearly the complete player that Wall has/is becoming.) really think Wall is the 2nd best PG in the league after Paul. I mean he's almost averaging 20-10. That's pretty special

Bubble Screen has absolutely not watched Wall this season. His analysis based off Sportscenter highlight packages.
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Bubble Screen

Bubble Screen

Posted
Posted (edited)

Seth Curry is a better player than Wall is, right now. Lets not do this to ourselves. He the 2nd best point guard in the NBA.

Wall has a higher ceiling but Seth is already one of the best shooters to ever play in the NBA.

Bubble Screen has absolutely not watched Wall this season. His analysis based off Sportscenter highlight packages.

Says the guy that thinks Seth Curry is a better player than Wall... Edited by Bubble Screen
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RonArtest15

RonArtest15

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

yall gotta stop entertaining bubble skip. 

 

My current top-5

 

Paul

Wall

*Westbrook

Curry

Lillard

 

Guys like Tony Parker, Kyle Lowry, and Mike Conley have been really good this year as well. 

 

Cases can also be made for the backcourt of Bledsoe/Dragic

 

Man, what fun it is to watch these PGs this season....

 

*edit*

 

did any of you see that there is a rumored Melo/Blake Griffin trade being discussed? 

 

Initially, I thought it was a bit crazy, but after thinking about it....Melo pairing w/ CP3 would be DEADLY. 

Edited by RonArtest15
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JoeWolf990

JoeWolf990

Posted
Posted

the Melo/Blake trade was ESPN creating a story.

Says the guy that thinks Seth Curry is a better player than Wall...

true, I think Seth Curry, D-League player, is better than Wall and a top 5 point guard in the NBA. Thats who I meant. I could not have meant his brother Steph, and there is no way that could have been a mis-type that is fairly common. Nah, I meant Seth.

Use your head, friend.

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RonArtest15

RonArtest15

Posted
  • Author
Posted

the Melo/Blake trade was ESPN creating a story.

true, I think Seth Curry, D-League player, is better than Wall and a top 5 point guard in the NBA. Thats who I meant. I could not have meant his brother Steph, and there is no way that could have been a mis-type that is fairly common. Nah, I meant Seth.

Use your head, friend.

 

Yea, Doc Rivers shot it down. 

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Ozymandias

Ozymandias

Posted
Posted

yall gotta stop entertaining bubble skip. 

 

My current top-5

 

Paul

Wall

*Westbrook

Curry

Lillard

 

 

Not bad.  Only thing I would change would be lillard and parker, MAYBE. Lillard is clutch as hell, my god.

 

 

 

I thought that trade talk had stalled? If this goes through, stupid trade for the lakers, great trade for the Cavs. Bynum shows no motivation, it seems like he doesnt care. i feel like he would do better going to the heat or the clippers, since they are contenders and wouldnt need him to be the best big man on the floor, just rebounds and defense.

 

 

the Melo/Blake trade was ESPN creating a story.

true, I think Seth Curry, D-League player, is better than Wall and a top 5 point guard in the NBA. Thats who I meant. I could not have meant his brother Steph, and there is no way that could have been a mis-type that is fairly common. Nah, I meant Seth.

Use your head, friend.

 

You forgot who youre talking to.

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